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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,816
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,816 |
As to advice: step on the rafters, not between them.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743 |
Yup, up here batts between the joists, blown insulation on top, continuous peak roof vents, and vented soffits. +1 Vapor barrier facing heated/cooled area aka living space.. That's how I always did it anyway... Looks like a new day and a new way, don't know if I totally get it but it's probably the way to go with spray foam
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
I've been out of the wood destroying organism biz for about 20 yrs. Seems it was a new thing at the time here then, it might not have been pre treated at that time.
Good to know if it is now.
The crap I remember looked like a mix of glue and a dump truck load of shredded financial reports. Sprayed onto a crawlspace wall. lol
I have a patent advancing building envelope design.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,731
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,731 |
Just the floor. Keep a cold roof. You should look at blown in cellulose.
Make sure to baffle between the rafters at the side wall to maintain soffit ventilation. This. The soffitt insulation is very important. You do want a cold roof. In cold climates, they won't approve a hot roof. Cellulose not only works it has an additional product like borax, and is more fire resistant. Nothing wrong with it at all.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,873
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,873 |
When I get ready for it, I'm blowing cellulose (shredded paper) insulation in my attic. It's treated to make it fire resistant and with boric acid for bugs.
Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer- Domestic Violent Extremist
Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"
This will be my last post! Flave 1/3/21
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
Yup, up here batts between the joists, blown insulation on top, continuous peak roof vents, and vented soffits. +1 Vapor barrier facing heated/cooled area aka living space.. That's how I always did it anyway... Looks like a new day and a new way, don't know if I totally get it but it's probably the way to go with spray foam On wood framed structures I’m a fan of conventional schemes.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063 |
Spray foam is taking off here in the Midwest. Great reviews.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,782
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,782 |
It’s not which one is better. Google conditioned attic
In the South, ceiling.
In the North, rafter if you’re doing a conditioned attic.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743 |
On wood framed structures I’m a fan of conventional schemes.
I don't know much about the foam, but I do know a good bit about conventional in areas where it really matters. I am gonna have to watch some of these newer homes getting all foam or "air tight" insulation jobs. I see them going up but never paid much attention. I do know I can tell a lot about a homes insulation when there is snow and or ice on the roof. It's kinda a tell tell sign of just how well the insulation job went, especially soffit and baffle work. I can see what they are after in the illustration but not so sure I want to heat and cool all that attic space to achieve it.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063 |
I've been out of the wood destroying organism biz for about 20 yrs. Seems it was a new thing at the time here then, it might not have been pre treated at that time.
Good to know if it is now.
The crap I remember looked like a mix of glue and a dump truck load of shredded financial reports. Sprayed onto a crawlspace wall. lol
I have a patent advancing building envelope design. What is your advanced envelope design?????
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,158
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,158 |
What kind of roofing do you have. If you have asphalt/fiberglass shingles, and if you insulate the roof, between the rafters, that's great in winter. That will help with you heat bills. Not as much as insulating the ceiling, but it will help. Where you will get bit in the ass is in the summer, which in Texas is 9 months long. The ceiling insulation will trap the heat that comes through the shingles, and the shingles will overheat every sunny day.
And your 30 year shingles will last 12 years. I know what I am talking about.
If you have a metal roof it is Macht Nichts.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,873
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,873 |
My friends brother just had his new home sprayed with the foam. The ac/heat contractor said he needed x size unit for the structure and installed the units but didn't come back for startup The owner contacted another ac/heat contractor to come for startup and this contractor, after looking at the system, wouldn't touch it. Second contractor said it was entirely wrong for the spray foam insulation. The contractor said the units were too big with the foam Insulation, IIRC. He contacted several more contractors to make sure he wasn't being steered wrong, and wound up spending 17K changing out the ac/heat units. He lawyered up and is after the first contractor.
Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer- Domestic Violent Extremist
Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"
This will be my last post! Flave 1/3/21
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
I had my whole house done in spray foam. Upon recommendation of my builder, we did open cell on the walls and closed cell on the roof. My electric bills average about $125/month, which in Texas, is exceptional. My builder thinks the low energy consumption is from being air tight as much as from the R value. Could be. We have to crack a window for the wood burning stove to get enough of a draw until it’s good and hot.
John So you did not do the attic floor? The only part of my house that has an attic is over the garage. We didn’t foam the attic floor there, just the walls and roof of the entire house. The rest of the house has no attic except a little under eave storage. The great room has a cathedral ceiling and there is a loft over the bedrooms, so no attic floor to insulate. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 138
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 138 |
As a sideline to our contracting business we've been spraying primarily closed cell (2 Lb.) foam for 15 years. If you have air handling equipment in the attic spray the rafters so it's not working in extreme tempatures. I've heard the shingle warranty thing but never talked to a roofer that experienced it firsthand. Houses that are sprayed from the ground up are extremely tight and usually require some forced ventilation, something their hvac contractor should take into account. Sprayed an attic once, residents started complaining of headaches , turns out they had a defective furnace, been causing health problems for years. Did a little work for the government sealing mine and ventilation shafts, used it once to support a 2 ft thick concrete slab, 60 feet across, amazing stuff.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743 |
If you have air handling equipment in the attic spray the rafters so it's not working in extreme tempatures. Not following you here, with "air handling equipment" are you referring to the actual duct work or compressor units? Houses that are sprayed from the ground up are extremely tight and usually require some forced ventilation, something their hvac contractor should take into account. Way back when, with homes that were considered "air tight" we use to put bathroom fans on timers so the cycled multiple times a day for various intervals of time. We also installed vents much like dryer vents for air intake in selected locations in a home. What is done today to achieve fresh air exchange?
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,063 |
As a sideline to our contracting business we've been spraying primarily closed cell (2 Lb.) foam for 15 years. If you have air handling equipment in the attic spray the rafters so it's not working in extreme tempatures. I've heard the shingle warranty thing but never talked to a roofer that experienced it firsthand. Houses that are sprayed from the ground up are extremely tight and usually require some forced ventilation, something their hvac contractor should take into account. Sprayed an attic once, residents started complaining of headaches , turns out they had a defective furnace, been causing health problems for years. Did a little work for the government sealing mine and ventilation shafts, used it once to support a 2 ft thick concrete slab, 60 feet across, amazing stuff. That’s another thing- I’ve read a few complaints of the foam giving off toxins...? Smelling?
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 138
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 138 |
Compressors are outside, the ductwork and blower are indoors. Most air handlers (blower) have some type of auxiliary heat available, gas, water, or electric. Having the handler in conditioned space allows for less energy loss. If your 72 degree air must travel through ducts in a 130 degree attic it's gonna take more energy to keep cool. The only odors I've ever experienced have been just when the foam was sprayed, usually gone within the hour if you open the windows, not near s bad as most paints. The spray is a reaction between 2 components, is heated at the pump and mixes at the spray gun nozzle. Good question about the controlled ventilation, last full house we did had a duct running outside to the handler. I'm sure it's a controlled fresh air intake just not sure how it's controlled. I'll try to ask one of the hvac guys tomorrow .
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,019
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,019 |
That’s another thing- I’ve read a few complaints of the foam giving off toxins...? Smelling?
Had a area professionally spray foamed, all concrete walls and ceiling. There were exposed I beams that supported the concrete ceiling that had been sweating. Due to the area was intended to be used to grow plants was the reason for getting it all foamed. A few months into the grow show and had noticed some small areas of the I beams that were still exposed and rusting fast. Picked up a couple of cans of spray foam, whatever type it is on the shelf at Home Depot. Emptied them both in the very well ventilated room (25x35), came back the next day to find an all but total meltdown of 150 plants. Every plant was wilted and appeared to be dying. Took a couple days for them to completely snap out of it and perk back up, these were pretty mature plants. Yeah, the stuff off gases something that isn't so great. Again this room was ventilated very well with a few horse power of inlet and outlet ventilation fans running at the time.
Padded VA Hospital Rooms for $1000 Alex My ignoree,s will never be Rock Stars on 24 hr campfire.....Like me!!!! What are psychotic puppet hunters?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,723
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,723 |
What is done today to achieve fresh air exchange?
Here in Newyorkistan,any new build is required to have "make-up air",we use a fan induced system tied into the ductwork,an HRV unit or with bath fans. Houses are so tight,you have to bring in 0 degree air in winter,or 95 degree air in summer and condition it.
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