Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires I think I need sensitivity training...

So, took a CZ 455 heavy barrel .22LR to the range today and stunk the place up.

Gun has a CZ fluted barrel, laminated thumbhole and the Mr Fly trigger (which is pretty darn good). I put a nice Tasco World Class Plus straight 24X on it. I also made up some targets with different sizes of rings to work with the 1/8 target dot reticle. The target/reticle combo worked very well.

I tried a bunch of ammo at 50 yards, with little success. It was very windy (I had to put rocks on the target stand to stop it from being blown over) and at one point I realized that I needed to retighten my scope rings (they weren't so bad). Best groups were probably in the 5/8 to 1 inch or more range but they often didn't "track" meaning that some shots were consistent with sight placement when the gun was fired, some were not.

So I kept playing with the way I washolding and resting the gun, and was able to make a few groups that did track the way they should. They ran around 3/8 or a bit smaller.

It seems that the gun is very sensitive to even the lightest pressure changes forward of the action, including where the forend is rested and if I put any finger pressure on it.
Ran out of time before I could really prove it but that's where I'm at.

Never had this problem before, and I don't want to start making changes without learning more.

So lets have it - does this sound familiar to anyone, and what are the fixes?

Couple questions first:

1. Which ammo did you try?
2. How many shots per group?
3. How many foulers did you shoot between each ammo swap?
4. Was the stringing horizontal, vertical, or both?
5. Which rings?
6. Did you clean the bore?

As far as scopes, a Tasco would not be be my choice...I'd use a SS ..in 10x or higher.

Wind is a huge factor....

If it was that windy I don't know how you could have any idea of what the rifle is capable of much less arrive at the conclusion that it was sensitive to anything besides wind drift - which all 22's are. A 5 mph wind will drift a 22 LR cartridge a half-inch at 50 yds, go back on a calm day and you may have an opportunity to develop some definitive conclusions.

drover

M1919 -

1. CCI standard, select, pistol match, Aguila standard, high velocity, Federal target, automatch, RWS high velocity, Remington target.
2. 5. Shot two or three groups of each (only 1 RWS). Like I said - losing daylight.
3. No couplers
4. Not much stringing to speak of.
5. Cheap rings.
6. Gave it a lightly oiled pass thru followed by 2 dries when I got it to get the dust out. Fired around 25 rounds of old Remington target off paper before I switched to paper.

FYI - the Tasco is one of the old Japanese made ones. I have a couple of similar variables that have been very good.

And, yes I can appreciate the effect of wind. When I got there I figured it would be a bust.
But despite the wind I thought I could see a real difference between holding and nudging the forend vs leaving it alone. Maybe it just seemed that way and I'm coming to a premature conclusion.


Gun is new to me. By the next time I get to the range ill pick up the T-30 bit I need to pull the action and look for any weirdness. Then I'll start low on the torque and work my way up at the range until I see what I can see.

pretty good point Driver. I agree, except that there was something besides wind going on I think.
Truly, hard to tell though.

But I get Black Friday off, hopefully the weather cooperates...

It would be worth checking the parallax too.

I would shoot again on a wind free day if possible, wind plays hell with .22 lr grouping. Plus, and I hate to point this out, but none of the ammos you were testing are really known for accuracy. The best of what you've got in my experience would be the CCI SV.

I think the other guys about covered the possibilities, any of which could have been your problem singly, or in combination. Number 3 on M1919's list is a prime candidate. Depends on the actual differences between lubes, but sometimes it takes quite a while for one to "settle in" after an ammo swap. I sometimes hurry it along by running a pull-through with solvent down the bore to at least get the old lube out.

I'd go back on a still day, avoid firing while there's any wind at all (and set out a couple of wind indicators to be sure), with the ammo that did the best last time. Check the scope for parallax while on a steady rest, and focus carefully to minimize it. Be very consistent in positioning your head behind the scope. Honestly, at 24x, if it's not adjustable for parallax, there might be a lot present.

Good luck.

EDIT: Flyers, inherent in even the best standard grade ammo, make evaluations tough. The two fellow geezers at my range that hold regular "dot-shooting" matches usually use SV, which is very reliable and consistent, but still get flyers on occasion. I think DigitalDan said Euro-stuff is better in that regard.

EDIT: Flyers, inherent in even the best standard grade ammo, make evaluations tough. The two fellow geezers at my range that hold regular "dot-shooting" matches usually use SV, which is very reliable and consistent, but still get flyers on occasion. I think DigitalDan said Euro-stuff is better in that regard.[/quote]


The quote is worth repeating. I've never had great accuracy luck with CCI SV ammo. Not a slam, just an observation concerning my rimfires rifles. What has been consistent in accuracy for me was RWS, Eley, Wolf, SK, Norma, and some of the old PMC ammo. The one I have always used the most is RWS Subsonic. This has been by go to Squirrel hunting ammo since my discovery in the late 70's and in most of my rimfires it shoots like match ammo. At the current $.05 a round it is hard not to like it.
Having said all that, wind and cheap rings can be an accuracy killer along with action screw torque unless the rifle is pillared and bedded.
Unless your scope has been abused those old Japanese Tasco's were darn good scopes. I assume your 24X model has the AO adjustment and it was set perfectly for the distance you were shooting.
Since CZ's are good shooters,[except the one I "had"], you can temporarily eliminate that from the list.

The target below was shot with 50 consecutive rds. of RWS Subsonic or Norma Subsonic [which is made by RWS], I don't recall which one it was. The rifle was a Kimber Hunter Silhouette I bedded in a Kimber Varmint stock and the distance was 50yds. The black portion of the target is 1 1/8" across. This is rifle is fun to shoot but not the most accurate one I own, so hence a flyer or 2 which could have been the shooter. If I was to shoot 50 rounds at one target again I would adjust the poi to be above or below the center of the black. It became a guessing game with the center gone. Ignorance on my part.

Jim, your sure not the first one to shoot out their aiming point. Hasbeen

Thanks all

You know, its kinda funny - I did a lot of things that I know aren't the best, but still expected a certain result based on past experience., as in "I've gotten away with it before".

Dumb me.

In this case I took my rare opportunity to go to the range on a day I knew was windy (and it got worse before it got better), and with only a 2 hour window.
Because of the wind I left the good stuff in the ammo bag and used the avaerage stuff.
I only ran a few rounds of each through each gun (I had 2 to try) not letting the lube layer form.
Since my rest wasn't the best I shot with my left hand on the stock, applying whatever light pressure I needed to get on target for each shot.

So, I got what I put into it. Didn't get away with it this time at all.

The good news from this outing -

When I only applied pressure to the pistol grip of the thumbhole rifle, it shot well under MOA even in those conditions (the wind had lessened but was still steady and gusty). Touch or reposition the forend and its over.

I really like the Mr Fly trigger. I don't know if I'd pay the $170+shpg it sells for but I might. Then other rifle has the Yo Dave kit in it and its good but this is much better.

I learned that if I want to have a good day, I'm going to need to take a weekday out of work when the weather is good. It will be $$$, but ill probably do it.

I re-learned that you can't skip the basics. This is the first time ive ever had ring problems on a .22, but they did start to loosen. They are going in the trash, gonna order proper ones today.

I also learned that I'm too old and fat to shoot between my heartbeats anymore. Not sure if ill be able to fix that. Sounds like a lot of lettuce and jogging....

I have a varmint model. Unfluted. Likes SK ammo. Worked on trigger myself. Very fine. When you have a calm day apply very light hold on pistol grip. Mine is much more consistent that way

Euro ammo is far, far superior to US stuff. Have had a common response to Wolf, SK and others with all of my rimfire so.....bug holes.

Krag'


I start with the basics.. good scope, solid rings, tight fasteners, parallax verification, solid rest....etc

Don't negate a good cleaning. I've had guns of known repute where accuracy began to fall off.......a couple passes with a bore snake and 10-20 foulers brings things right back.

I like to eliminate ammo from the equation early by starting with known good....

Midas +, Center X, Eley Black, and Federal Gold Medal UltraMatch (discontinued). Once you have proven the mechanics are solid with the above and ammo is removed from the equation....you can work towards less expensive stuff.

I've seen it take 10 shots between ammo swaps to get things to settle in.

I've had excellent results with Norma TAC and Norma Match.

Thanks M1919

Thats a good sense approach all right.
I've have very good luck with Midas+, RWS subsonic, RWS rifle match, Federal Ultramatch, etc.
I've also had great luck with RWS high velocity and, don't laugh - Aguila standard velocity.
For many years, CCI standard velocity and subsonic have been mainstays. The Aguila is now.

So I'm going to circle the wagons a bit, set myself up better and do just what you suggest.

One odd thing though - I have seen a few web mentions of CZ thumbhole that needed pressure only on the grip to shoot consistently. Including papa here on the fire. I wonder why that would be, and if bedding is a cure.

LOL!! Dumb rookie move on my part for sure. To be honest, I'm willing to bet if I changed the point of impact the 50rd group would be much smaller. Oh well.


Kragman1,

I'm willing to bet that bedding would cure the sensitive hold. Pillars are a big plus along with bedding.

Trying to shoot consistent precision groups with. 22LR on a windy day is a futile pursuit at best. Those groups mean nothing and are not indicative of what your combo is capable of. Wait for calm day.

Edited to add that if your gal is to just burn Ammo for fun then by all means blast away, but don’t make the mistake of thinking you are shooting anywhere near what the rifle/scope/Ammo combo is capable of.

Had the same thing happen the last two times out with my rimfires. Tried like crazy to get groups like the ones I know my rifles and ammo are capable of and had a gusty wind from right to left to contend with all day. Groups were all over the place, so we just gave it up and started shooting targets of opportunity for fun. Clay pigeons laid at different distances, dueling targets, etc... and just made it a fun shooting day.

Some days it just doesn't pay to try to get serious ....

Bob

And some days it pays to use wind flags.

Another minor point goes to precision work on targets after you aim point tuns into a hole. Imagine you're using a ring target with numbered rings. Pick a number for POA and adjust POI to the 10 ring. It's a method used for over 100 years and is remarkably useful with larger caliber rifles.

I love busting randomly placed clays. And then the fragments. Then the crumbs....

Used to be able to shoot clay rabbits too. A different kind of fun!