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I've got a hankering for a 38-55, but as far as bullet selection and loads, it doesn't offer a lot of options. Factory loads are anemic, energy is poor, and who knows what accuracy will be. But I still want one. I was wondering what other calibers you folks own and shoot that fall in this category.

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You can fix that with a good bullet mold and a set of dies.... 255's at 1800fps should be doable


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I acquired a Win 94 1907 production in 38-55 this year. Been playing with several cast bullets. The newer guns take a.376 bullet and that opens up quite a few more jacketed bullet choices.

I also have a 1906, 38-40, Marlin 94.That is even more limited in bullet selection

Lot of fun to shoot though


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I have a 38-40 also!

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I've got an octagon barrel marlin cowboy 38-55 . Fun to shoot. Mines set up for cowboy silhouette

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My 17's, they are good for plinking and varmints and that's about it. On the flip side they sure are fun to shoot. I've got a 17 Remington and a 17 Fireball. I just added a 204 Ruger to the stable.

Edit: I always forget that this is for the gun writers and I must disclose that I'm anything but.

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Originally Posted by Showdog75
My 17's, they are good for plinking and varmints and that's about it. On the flip side they sure are fun to shoot. I've got a 17 Remington and a 17 Fireball. I just added a 204 Ruger to the stable.




You beat me with your comment. I was going to say my .223 Rem. In a “real pinch” it could be used on “small” big game, beyond that, paper and varmints! memtb


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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
I've got a hankering for a 38-55, but as far as bullet selection and loads, it doesn't offer a lot of options. Factory loads are anemic, energy is poor, and who knows what accuracy will be. But I still want one. I was wondering what other calibers you folks own and shoot that fall in this category.



There is one commercial load that might change your thoughts on this.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=159

Still over 2,000 foot lbs energy at 150 yards. The page I linked to actually has a lot of information on the 38-55.

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I've also got a 38-55, load it for three levels of loads with the same 250gr cast bullet. 1225 fps for target and plinking, 1400 for hunting, and 1600 for heavier use. One thing with cast bullets, maximum penetration is at 14-1500 fps, anything much over 1600 lessens penetration as the bullet starts breaking up faster.
My other limited purpose cartridge is the 25-20 WCF. Mine is a 113+ year old '94 Marlin. Due to it's age I load a 89 gr cast bullet at just under 1300 fps and use it for steel gongs and small game.

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25 ACP

Its a one trick pony, but I can’t figure out the trick.

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I have a bunch of cartridges that have pretty limited options whether "factory" or reloading. Those I can think of off hand are:
38/55, 25/35, 32 WSL, 351 WSL, 401 WSL, 45/60, 303 Savage, 22 Savage High Power, 25 Rem, 30 Rem, 32 Rem, 6.5 Arisaka, 7.7 Jap, and probably a couple others I can't think of at the moment. That isn't counting the more common rounds like 30 Carbine, 358 Win, etc that have limited bullet weight options but are produced by several manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by 222ND
25 ACP

Its a one trick pony, but I can’t figure out the trick.


Yeah, that one defies logic on all accounts.

Originally Posted by woodmaster81
I have a bunch of cartridges that have pretty limited options whether "factory" or reloading. Those I can think of off hand are:
38/55, 25/35, 32 WSL, 351 WSL, 401 WSL, 45/60, 303 Savage, 22 Savage High Power, 25 Rem, 30 Rem, 32 Rem, 6.5 Arisaka, 7.7 Jap, and probably a couple others I can't think of at the moment. That isn't counting the more common rounds like 30 Carbine, 358 Win, etc that have limited bullet weight options but are produced by several manufacturers.


The 351 WSL and 401 WSL are good ones as well. Limited reloading options, low power, and few rifles.

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All my calibers work on most everything...embracing diversity and eschewing discrimination.

.17, .22, .25, .28, .30, .35, .37, .40, .41, .44, .45, .50...

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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
Originally Posted by 222ND
25 ACP

Its a one trick pony, but I can’t figure out the trick.


Yeah, that one defies logic on all accounts.



The "trick" is that most 25 ACP pistols were designed specifically for the cartridge.
Old 25 automatics were some of the most reliable pistols in their day.

Last edited by night_owl; 11/16/19.


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"I want there fore I need" is the very best way to go forward. It only has to please you.

As for me in my rifles I have few calibers that don't cover a lot of bases. But probably the one that is most limited as to what it will do very well is my 222 Remington, my old 30-30 or my 404 Jeffery.
The rifles I have that cover the fewest bases are going to fall into a "iron sights only " group because of my limitations (Getting old and don't have excellent vision anymore) and the caliber that they are chambered in may be fine but I am not as "fine as they are" anymore. Such guns are my 6.5 Mannlicher, my Lee 303, my Remington M81 300 Savage, my Husky M46 in 9.3X57 and maybe my Browning M1895 30-06. But with that said I find I still kill about 1/2 of all my game animals with them. This year I had 7 tags to fill myself and so far I have killed 6 animals of which 5 were killed over iron sights. My longest kill in the 2019 season so far were my last 2 deer, both killed with the M81 in 300 savage and both at about 150 yards.
All those cartridges can do a lot of things and cover a lot of ground for hunting, but in those guns, with the sight they have, I think of them all as 200- 250 yard rifles because with open sights (not peeps) I am confident to about 250 yards in the field. With a scope I can shoot well to a LOT farther distances, but that is more about the sights and not the cartridges.

2 others that do very well on many kinds of game but at close ranges are my 62 caliber and my 50 caliber flintlocks.

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350 rem mag!


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.22 Savage Hi-Power.

Takes a .228" bullet. .224" doesn't work with a darn through it.

Hard to work with, but a fun rifle.



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Originally Posted by 222ND
25 ACP

Its a one trick pony, but I can’t figure out the trick.

Once upon a time the 25 ACP offered centerfire reliability in a tiny pistol. Now that you can get 32 ACP pistols that are as small and 380 and even 9mm pistols that aren't much bigger, there's not much point to it.

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32-20

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In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse.

.38-55? One of the most renowned target cartridges of a bygone era, and loaded with a heavy cast bullet a wonderful deer load today for all but the long range deer sniper crowd. .22High Power? Better bullet selection today than when it was in its heyday- if you know how to find them.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 11/17/19.

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I live in Ohio and own a Ruger no1 in 458win mag. Only reason I bought it was the price was to good not to. It’s nice to pullout and let everyone take a couple shots down range when my buddy’s get together.

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9x57 and .404 Jeffery.


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Originally Posted by HeavyLoad
I live in Ohio and own a Ruger no1 in 458win mag. Only reason I bought it was the price was to good not to. It’s nice to pullout and let everyone take a couple shots down range when my buddy’s get together.



That caliber can be very versatile also. No reason on God's Green Earth to shoot full house loads all the time. In fact, well, I won't say how I feel about that folderol. Load up a sack full of .45 Colt-level loads and enjoy a day of shooting. Load up some .45-70 level loads for deer/elk hunting, and a fistful of rip snorters for the occasional Cape buffalo or elephant. Easy peasy.


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Handloaders make silk purses out of sows ears.

A .375 Winchester carbine I hunt with is arguably one of the"least versatile" cartridges I hunt with. I found that loading three 36 caliber round balls over 7 grains of pistol powder in the .375 makes a fine grouse load to 20 yards. You can also use a bullet hollow pointer to open up the front end of these big flat slab bullets and initiate a little better expansion at lower velocities.

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I'm no gunwriter, either, but the 38-55 is one of my favorites. Like Ole 270, I load it for a variety of uses, including Cowboy steel. The handloader has more options than offered by factory ammo, which is almost always the case for any cartridge I can think of just off the top of my head.

What rifle loonies like or want has no relationship to versatility, cost or logic. Curiosity is a blessing and a curse and a wonderful way to learn and have fun. Live with it.

Anybody want to sell an old Marlin lever in 25-20 or 32-20?


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse...


I agree. It's funny that only a minority of reloaders will consider loading a cartridge down. Especially, as you point out, when loading cast bullets. Of course, that goes for jacketed bullets too.

I've noticed that most guys ride the ragged edge of pressure in order to generate as much velocity as they can. It's oxymoronic really. Reloaders can load for a range of power levels with any cartridge, yet most work to squeeze all they can from their brass. That "full on" approach is baffling to me.

I wonder why that is?


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450NE 3.25"


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse.



Cast bullets don't churn my butter.


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Diversity??? We don’t need no stinkin’ diversity.


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6ppc and 30BR

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416 Rigby and Remington. 458 Win Lott Watts



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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse...


I agree. It's funny that only a minority of reloaders will consider loading a cartridge down. Especially, as you point out, when loading cast bullets. Of course, that goes for jacketed bullets too.

I've noticed that most guys ride the ragged edge of pressure in order to generate as much velocity as they can. It's oxymoronic really. Reloaders can load for a range of power levels with any cartridge, yet most work to squeeze all they can from their brass. That "full on" approach is baffling to me.

I wonder why that is?



I agree. Never made a lot of sense to me either. Though, I haven’t done so in a while.....I have shot a lot of cast bullets at around 1400 fps, from my .375 AI. Performance is very similar to the 38 - 55 Win. Works great on smaller varmints, coyotes down through prairie dogs. Works good squirrels, rabbits, and even grouse....provided you “ head shoot “ them ! I wouldn’t hesitate to use them on deer/antelope, provided the shots were close and I could carefully place the bullet!

I’ve shot far more light loads through my 44 Mag., than the “hot” stuff! memtb

Last edited by memtb; 11/17/19.

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I would say a 243. Yeah, it can be hellagood for a youth or light antelope or deer rifle. Or an awesome, low volume varminter. But not in the same rifle. One demands light and short. The other long and heavy. And both are pretty specialized.

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Originally Posted by night_owl
Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
Originally Posted by 222ND
25 ACP

Its a one trick pony, but I can’t figure out the trick.


Yeah, that one defies logic on all accounts.



The "trick" is that most 25 ACP pistols were designed specifically for the cartridge.
Old 25 automatics were some of the most reliable pistols in their day.


I’m sure the gun writers of the past wrote volumes on the virtues of the “25 ACP”. LOL

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348 Win

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Originally Posted by 222ND





I’m sure the gun writers of the past wrote volumes on the virtues of the “25 ACP”. LOL


They didn't because tiny pocket autos were stigmatized before concealed carry was legitimized.

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Originally Posted by night_owl
Originally Posted by 222ND





I’m sure the gun writers of the past wrote volumes on the virtues of the “25 ACP”. LOL


They didn't because tiny pocket autos were stigmatized before concealed carry was legitimized.


They didn’t write about 25 ACP’s because they sucked a$$. They sucked in 1930 and they still do. This post asked for the least diverse caliber. I believe that the 25 acp would win that contest. Some people also argue that gay couples should be able to adopt children.

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Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse...


I agree. It's funny that only a minority of reloaders will consider loading a cartridge down. Especially, as you point out, when loading cast bullets. Of course, that goes for jacketed bullets too.

I've noticed that most guys ride the ragged edge of pressure in order to generate as much velocity as they can. It's oxymoronic really. Reloaders can load for a range of power levels with any cartridge, yet most work to squeeze all they can from their brass. That "full on" approach is baffling to me.

I wonder why that is?



I agree. Never made a lot of sense to me either. Though, I haven’t done so in a while.....I have shot a lot of cast bullets at around 1400 fps, from my .375 AI. Performance is very similar to the 38 - 55 Win. Works great on smaller varmints, coyotes down through prairie dogs. Works good squirrels, rabbits, and even grouse....provided you “ head shoot “ them ! I wouldn’t hesitate to use them on deer/antelope, provided the shots were close and I could carefully place the bullet!

I’ve shot far more light loads through my 44 Mag., than the “hot” stuff! memtb


I have to admit to being one who has always loaded for the highest available MV in my revolvers and rifles. 30-06 with a 190 gr Hornady btsp at 2800 fps? No problem with a case full of H4831.

But then I am just as likely to be loading 125s at 2200 fps using SR4759, or 110 gr Sierra varminters at 2200 fps over 4198 or 3031 in the same brass.

I experiment as much or more with light recoil loads for the kids and grandkids as I do with maximum loads for the adults to hunt with.


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Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
In my opinion there's no such thing as a least diverse cartridge, if you are a handloader and especially if in addition you are a bullet caster too. Cartridge diversity is a state of mind of a shooter. Armed with an open mind and willingness to think outside the box, any cartridge can be pretty diverse.



Cast bullets don't churn my butter.


My least versatile —- 8 mm Rem Mag

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I too have a hankering for a 38-55, and I even bought a 30-30 donor rifle back last winter.

I have to agree, the more I research the 38-55, I see more walls than windows. Sorry, gnoahhh. I have to disagree. I'm thinking of this 38-55 as Ohio-compliant whitetail deer rifle. There just aren't that many jacketed bullets for this chambering, and although there are quite a few cast bullet options, I find that they're all on the heavy side for whitetail. I know-- that's my tastes, but I'm used to playing in the 30-06 kind of sandbox where the bullet choices are overwhelming.

Yes, there are least-versatile choices, especially if you look at the reverse. What is the most versatile chambering?

Take 30-06: I had grafs.com up a little while ago-- over 400 bullet choices. You can go from a 100 grain plinker to a 250 grain match bullet. You've got bullets for varminting, plinking, big game hunting and dx shooting.

So bullet choice is a big component of a chambering's versatility.

Then you've got rifle offerings. Everyone offers a rifle in 30-06. Every type of action is covered. Every conceivable barrel length and twist is covered.

38-55? You've got levers and single-shots. Sure you could custom-build it into anything, but you have to ask yourself why? What's practical?

Case capacity is a factor. 38-55/375 WIN is on the Ohio-compliant list, because it has a limited case capacity. Nobody will be able to drive a bullet all THAT fast as a result. 30-06? Dang! Think of what a 30-06 can't do, and it's an impressively small list.


I just got done hunting a season with a Ruger Model 44 in Kentucky. I fell into the Model 44 after acquiring the donor rifle for the 38-55 build. Having used it to take a buck, I'm seeing that this may be my designated Ohio deer rifle. It dropped a buck at 80 yards and did so without muss or fuss. I daresay the 38-55 project would not have done any better. As a result, I may hold off on the 38-55 build.





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I have owned 4 38-55s. Two marlin 336s rebored by JES, a Winchester 1885 Traditional Hunter, and a Stevens 44 1/2. Every one of them was a tack driver and more fun than a barrel of monkeys! Cast bullets only in everything from mouse fart loads to 1600 fps hunting loads. They are now in the hands of close friends that just HAD TO HAVE THEM. I still shoot them whenever we get together....and, of course, I have to reload for them.

The Stevens is a serious piece of work. With the Unertl scope I had no problem shooting sub MOA:

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Although the Stevens isn't much of a hunting rifle with it's bull barrel, I just had to do it. Don't ever believe a .376" 250 odd grain cast bullet at 1500 fps will not kill

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. . . and just to reinterate, I'm not saying the 38-55 isn't effective or that it is anemic or obsolete. It's none of these. All I'm saying is there is a narrower range of options.


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There is definitely a narrower range of options with the .38-55/375 Winchester and even more so since Hornady decided to drop their 220 grain offering (😤). I’ve had good luck with the Barnes originals and Sierra’s 200 grain bullets for jacketed loads and have used a myriad of cast bullets (no major diversity issue if willing to go that route).......plus for me there is an untold amount of “fun” using a cartridge that my grandfather used with a great deal of success👍

But while we’re at it my “lack of diversity” vote goes to the .256 Winchester Magnum😄

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My 450 Marlin. Big, slow, bullet, kicks a tad when loaded up. The perfect chore , take down saddle rifle.
Kicks like a mule and yes, I have been kicked by both.
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for brush popping cattle- Grizzly capable in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by shaman
I too have a hankering for a 38-55, and I even bought a 30-30 donor rifle back last winter.

I have to agree, the more I research the 38-55, I see more walls than windows. Sorry, gnoahhh. I have to disagree. I'm thinking of this 38-55 as Ohio-compliant whitetail deer rifle. There just aren't that many jacketed bullets for this chambering, and although there are quite a few cast bullet options, I find that they're all on the heavy side for whitetail. I know-- that's my tastes, but I'm used to playing in the 30-06 kind of sandbox where the bullet choices are overwhelming.

Yes, there are least-versatile choices, especially if you look at the reverse. What is the most versatile chambering?

Take 30-06: I had grafs.com up a little while ago-- over 400 bullet choices. You can go from a 100 grain plinker to a 250 grain match bullet. You've got bullets for varminting, plinking, big game hunting and dx shooting.

So bullet choice is a big component of a chambering's versatility.

Then you've got rifle offerings. Everyone offers a rifle in 30-06. Every type of action is covered. Every conceivable barrel length and twist is covered.

38-55? You've got levers and single-shots. Sure you could custom-build it into anything, but you have to ask yourself why? What's practical?

Case capacity is a factor. 38-55/375 WIN is on the Ohio-compliant list, because it has a limited case capacity. Nobody will be able to drive a bullet all THAT fast as a result. 30-06? Dang! Think of what a 30-06 can't do, and it's an impressively small list.


I just got done hunting a season with a Ruger Model 44 in Kentucky. I fell into the Model 44 after acquiring the donor rifle for the 38-55 build. Having used it to take a buck, I'm seeing that this may be my designated Ohio deer rifle. It dropped a buck at 80 yards and did so without muss or fuss. I daresay the 38-55 project would not have done any better. As a result, I may hold off on the 38-55 build.






Apples and oranges, I'm afraid. Besides, how many people actually use all or even a small percentage of .30 offerings in their .30-06's? Versatility of a cartridge doesn't mean the average Joe takes full advantage of it, even the average Looney.

I could easily spend the rest of my life with a "less diverse" cartridge exploring all of its potential- bullets, both store-bought and home made, powders, velocities- and in between range sessions going out and killing stuff with it. It boils down to how far outside the box one wishes to think, and how much one shrugs at "common wisdom".


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Me? With a 30-06, I've used it for groundhogs (with sabotted .223 loads) , coyote, hog, and whitetail. I've also plinked with cat-sneeze cast loads.

I don't mean to throw shade on the 38-55, but I do think it's not as versatile a chambering. Even 30-30 (from the 38-55 case) is a more versatile cartridge. Most of that is from the amount of factory bullet offerings, but there's also a lot more molds for 30-somethings out there.

Gnoahhh, I'm hard pressed to ever say you're wrong on anything. You are one of the 'Campers I most respect. However, I must say you're take on the subject is eccentric.


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grin whistle


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First it was the .25 ACP that was less diverse, and now it's the .38-55. I wouldn't disrespect either, but suspect anyone who purchased a .25 ACP has a small weenie. Even smaller than someone who shoots hogs with CB Shorts.

So, how diverse is the .38-55? Take my beer out to the 300 yard line and hold it for me. I double dog dare ya.......

You fellas that are askeerd of molten lead need to seek counseling and your Loony Status is revoked until that's done.

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100 yards, offhand...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Ya see the 4th from the right? 350 grains perched on Lord Black. A fella head shoots small stuff and maybe bigger, or if having an off day, in the chest. It's what's for dinner Kemo Sabe. And furthermore, the cartridge does not discriminate. It'll kill anything you want. Furry, feathers, bald, red, yellow, black or white. Diversity embraced..........
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If I wanted to shoot girly bullets I would....but I don't need to and won't.

Phfffffft.


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My most amusing cartridge is a .25 caliber. Stuff happens in tube feed when you forget to crimp..........

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Is that third cartridge from the left one that I sent down range last week, Dan? smile


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Probably it is. Right cartridge for sure. Very diverse too, squill to T-Rex.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan


So, how diverse is the .38-55? Take my beer out to the 300 yard line and hold it for me. I double dog dare ya.......

You fellas that are askeerd of molten lead need to seek counseling and your Loony Status is revoked until that's done.

Phfffffft.


I don't think anyone here is trying to throw shade on the 38-55. It's a very effective cartridge for what it does. The problem is whether or not a given cartridge is diverse or versatile. I would suggest 30-06 is a candidate for being most versatile. Another one might be .223 REM. There are a bunch of bullet choices and you can rig a load to go hunt chipmunk up to whitetail deer. Now granted, you can load 375 round ball in a 38-55 case and plink to your heart's content. Still, I'd say there is room for making the distinction.

As far as flinging lead goes, I'm a huge fan of .35-somethings. I have a 35 Whelen that shoots 158 grain cast lead quite well. That same mold works for my 357 pistols and lever gun. In fact, with 3 molds, I cast for a dozen firearms right now everything from 9mm to 38 SPC to 357 Mag to 35 Whelen.


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But, but, this thread is about the least diverse in YOUR arsenal.

DD

PS: I was talkin' to the crowd, not you in particular.

PPS: Don't make me pull out my .25-20SS

PPPS: I nominate my 4mm Zimmerstutzen. Probably can't kill anything bigger than a hog with that one. Still worth a lot of giggles though.


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In my current inventory? Hmmm. Maybe the 7.5X54 French. It's a 308 WIN-ish kind of chambering, but it only fits in a MAS 36.

I'd give an honorable mention to 44 Mag at least as a rifle round. Again, I'm not throwing shade on the chambering. It did a really good job on a whitetail this season. Still, it's not going to be delivering the kind of versatility as the 45-70, and it isn't a good varminter.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
But, but, this thread is about the least diverse in YOUR arsenal.

DD


YES, it is or WAS.....


This is the second time "shaman" crossed the double yellow line.
On P 5 he wrote.....

Originally Posted by shaman
Me? With a 30-06, I've used it for groundhogs (with sabotted .223 loads) , coyote, hog, and whitetail. I've also plinked with cat-sneeze cast loads.

I don't mean to throw shade on the 38-55, but I do think it's not as versatile a chambering. Even 30-30 (from the 38-55 case) is a more versatile cartridge. Most of that is from the amount of factory bullet offerings, but there's also a lot more molds for 30-somethings out there.


He 'back doored' , your " least diverse caliber"

pfffft

Jerry laugh


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I volunteer to sit in the penalty box, just to show good sportsmanship.


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I have a .44 rifle. It is profoundly diverse. Pigs, deers, Godzilla, it don't matter. Bark a squill it did way back when I was easily amused. Kinda like a .45-70 Short if you get my drift. And I offered the .45-70 to Cpt. Kirk but he was askeerd to install that on the Enterprise due to recoil. Puzzy.

Chuck Norris wants it. Bad.

Woof!

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Let's see - How 'bout a 219 Donaldson Wasp, 35WSL (NOT 351), 2 32-20's (Rifle and revolver), 17 Rem, etc.


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I guess when I think of diverse, I'm thinking of a wider range of choices than you.

Most of the rifle bullet offerings are 185 grain to 300 grain, but most folks stick to something around 240 grains. 30-06 goes 110 to 220 grains in general offerings.


A 125 grain bullet in a 30-06 is a very viable groundhog round. At the top end you can take a moose.

You mentioned deer and hog. Both are pretty much in the same class of game as far as I'm concerned. At least on my gun rack, there is no difference between my hog rifles and and my deer rifles. Now I'm sure somebody is going to say they've taken Moose with a 44 Mag, but it wouldn't be my first choice.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
But, but, this thread is about the least diverse in YOUR arsenal.

DD


I know he said own and shoot, but mine would have to be a 270. I got components and reloading equipment, but no rifle. I traded it away for something. For me, that makes it the least diverse. smile

Little Known Facts about Firearms: The 45 Elias Steamer (Elias' Least Diverse Cartridge)
Copyright 2015 - me

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In 1889, Elias Martineau, of the ‘salt water boiled chicken' Louisiana Martineaus, devised the first steam driven, self-contained cartridge – the 45 Elias Steamer.

Elias lived just outside of Lafayette, in the newly created Acadia Parish. God bless him, his intentions were honorable, but he just wasn’t too bright. He figured to capitalize on the idea of using boiling salt water from the Gulf to propel bullets. Sadly, neither the Martineau chicken recipe nor Elias’ steam driven bullet idea took off.

Originally, Elias thought that he could create a cartridge that would rival the black powder and new smokeless powder cartridges of the day. He chose the 45-70 because of its availability and the sheer number of single shot rifles available back then.

For 18 months he worked tirelessly, assembling tiny, single piston steam compressors inside of 45-70 cases. The effort took most of his time and ruined his eyesight. When it became too difficult to use even a large magnifying glass, he imported illegals from Tennessee to labor in his small shed. He was determined to succeed, despite hiring people from the Smoky Mountains.

Had Elias made one or two prototypes before going into full time production, he might have realized his idea wouldn’t hold water. Or, more to the point, wouldn’t hold enough water. While the principle of steam pressure had been proven in locomotives, it was a new idea in bullet propulsion. This was the golden age of firearms however. New ideas were born every week, and the industrial revolution drove innovation.

By July 1890, Elias’ small staff had produced 10 steam driven cartridges, and testing day had arrived. Even the army was interested! Four military men arrived from Washington and went into Martineau’s backyard to set up a firing bench and a target stand. One fellow even remembered to bring refreshments and lunch. The very first target was a 30x30 piece of deer hide, held onto a makeshift wooden stand with wire.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Four army men

Back at the firing line, there were empty bottles, cans, and even a small chicken in a cage. After the initial test shots were made on deer hide, these items were to be shot up to demonstrate the accuracy and firepower of the 45 Elias Steamer.

Elias carefully laid out the ten new cartridges on the table. He put on a new shirt, combed his hair and called for his rifle – a well-used Springfield trapdoor. Calvin Victor, his assistant, brought it to him and motioned for the camera. This was a historic moment! That’s when Elias realized that in his haste to construct this new steam driven cartridge, he had forgotten to modify a rifle to fire it. So everyone went home.

Sadly, Elias Martineau would not live to see his dream come true. Two months later, he was struck and killed by a driverless horse and buggy in the laneway of his farm, while walking to the outhouse.

And now you know the best of the story!


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
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I think it was E.W. Scripps that said: "Give light and the people will find their own way to the outhouse."

. . . or something like that.


Mister Redgwell, I think you are the true embodiment of that eternal truth. I'm going out now into the back yard, pointing myself in a generally northerly direction and issuing three loud "Huzzahs!" in celebration of your genius.


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A cartridge's diversity is limited only by the imagination of the shooter. Some years back I spent some time shooting paper patched round balls for the .44 Mag, and found accuracy with one ball quite good at 50 yards, 2 balls worked quite well also, but printed two groups of about 1.5" spread, about 3" apart. Never quite figured that out, but the single ball load was good on squill and other obnoxious critters. I wouldn't call them mouse fart loads, the last round of single ball loads crossed the Chrony at about 2400 fps. Not very accurate but fast enough to catch the Road Runner.


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As was posted above, most loaders are only interested in near red line loads. Some I've seen posted may be above that even. Lord knows I've got shelves full of the "condom" bullet, some with colorful tips even. If my wife knew how many dollars worth of the various powders I have stashed away I'd be in trouble. Anymore, most of my shooting and fun in the shooting realm comes from homecast boolets. Go to the range, dig up some scrap, melt it down, add some tin, and see what I can do. In fact, my deer hunting this year will probably come down to deciding between a 250 grain cast bullet at 1400 fps out of the 38-55 or a 180 cast at 2200 out of the 308 . Maybe one of each?

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8.15x46r in an old German single shot. I sure would like to hunt something with it

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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
I've got a hankering for a 38-55, but as far as bullet selection and loads, it doesn't offer a lot of options. Factory loads are anemic, energy is poor, and who knows what accuracy will be. But I still want one. I was wondering what other calibers you folks own and shoot that fall in this category.


I do not know what you consider diverse or not diverse regarding calibers. It is kind of a weird word to apply to calibers. Does a diverse caliber mean you can shoot people from a variety of races, genders, ages, and orientations with it?

It sounds like you might be pointing to flexibility of available loads? Or bullets for reloading?

If that is it, for me it is probably the .38-40 WCF. The only factory load I've seen in many years is the anemic WW 180 grain JSP load which is really not that good for anything. The bullet is too stoutly constructed to expand at the speed the cartridge delivers. To help it a bit you can get a buy a Corbin canneluring tool and roll crimp grooves into 10mm pistol bullets or switch to WFN cast bullets. That's about it. Even with max Ruger-only loads, it's pretty anemic.

Tom


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Originally Posted by shaman
I guess when I think of diverse, I'm thinking of a wider range of choices than you.

Most of the rifle bullet offerings are 185 grain to 300 grain, but most folks stick to something around 240 grains. 30-06 goes 110 to 220 grains in general offerings.


A 125 grain bullet in a 30-06 is a very viable groundhog round. At the top end you can take a moose.

You mentioned deer and hog. Both are pretty much in the same class of game as far as I'm concerned. At least on my gun rack, there is no difference between my hog rifles and and my deer rifles. Now I'm sure somebody is going to say they've taken Moose with a 44 Mag, but it wouldn't be my first choice.


I cant see what would be wrong with shooting Moose with a 44 mag? I've hunted Moose with a couple different 44's but never an opportunity to kill. I was there when a friend killed one with his Marlin 1894 and it worked great.

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8 Bore black powder rifle, one standing, and one folding leaf to get it to 100 yards, although, with the right [hard] alloy, I don't know of a critter that will shrug one off.


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Have a .41 Swiss and 8mm Lebel that have to be right up there😄.

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.577 Snider Enfield.

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I’ve always had a fascination with the 8mm Rem Mag. When I was younger, I thought it was the perfect elk cartridge that was also useful for mule deer hunting in open country. Milder cartridges with more bullet choices have proven to be just as useful, so the 8mm stays in the safe. And my shoulder thanks me.

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50 Maynard


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The .50 Hilliard might be more diverse that the Maynard. Don't need no cartridge case.


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Originally Posted by T_Inman
.22 Savage Hi-Power.

Takes a .228" bullet. .224" doesn't work with a darn through it.

Hard to work with, but a fun rifle.


Same here. Like so much, I have two of them.


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Originally Posted by Gooch_McGrundle
I’ve always had a fascination with the 8mm Rem Mag. When I was younger, I thought it was the perfect elk cartridge that was also useful for mule deer hunting in open country. Milder cartridges with more bullet choices have proven to be just as useful, so the 8mm stays in the safe. And my shoulder thanks me.


I'm fond of the 8mmRM too (sexy looking round) but never got one, and now they're hard to find. I did buy the next best thing, an X-bolt in 325WSM.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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As " un-diverse" as all of the aforementioned cartridges may (or may not) be, they're still way better than a hand held rock or pointy stick.


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Mine has to be my 1899 SRC in 32-40

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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
I've got a hankering for a 38-55, but as far as bullet selection and loads, it doesn't offer a lot of options. Factory loads are anemic, energy is poor, and who knows what accuracy will be. But I still want one. I was wondering what other calibers you folks own and shoot that fall in this category.


The 38-55 is an excellent cartridge for shooting cast bullets, One of the best in my opinion.

As far as a least diverse - easy my 256 Magnum, no bear loads.


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Morning Fieball 2, I used to have a bird load for my 38-55 to. If I remember it was 5 or 6 grains of red dot, 1/2 (bottom) of an orange foam ear plug, then the pellets (don't remember how much), then the top 1/2 of the foam ear plug, run the case up into a 308 die, just far enough to keep the foam plug from falling out. Shot quite a few bush chickens up north around Adikoken area. It was really quiet & would make ya giggle when it went off. Was only good to 20 or 25 yds. One yr up there my buddy brought his young lad up. He would walk all the logging roads with an older boy that was his sister's boyfriend. One afternoon they came back to camp with 13 birds. (Mixed partridge, spruce grouse) we had a great big pot of dumplings & birds. Boy , we all had full bellys that night. Every body have a good week!!! Bill. 🐾👣🇨🇦

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Originally Posted by GWPGUY
Morning Fieball 2, I used to have a bird load for my 38-55 to. If I remember it was 5 or 6 grains of red dot, 1/2 (bottom) of an orange foam ear plug, then the pellets (don't remember how much), then the top 1/2 of the foam ear plug, run the case up into a 308 die, just far enough to keep the foam plug from falling out. Shot quite a few bush chickens up north around Adikoken area. It was really quiet & would make ya giggle when it went off. Was only good to 20 or 25 yds. One yr up there my buddy brought his young lad up. He would walk all the logging roads with an older boy that was his sister's boyfriend. One afternoon they came back to camp with 13 birds. (Mixed partridge, spruce grouse) we had a great big pot of dumplings & birds. Boy , we all had full bellys that night. Every body have a good week!!! Bill. 🐾👣🇨🇦


Wow what a great idea! I hadn't thought of using earplugs. I will see if I can get ahold of a small quantity of birdshot somewhere. Here's the 38-55 I usually carry. I've got one on the way I'm excited to get. It's a special order 20" carbine in a takedown model 1899 Savage. Never seen a 38-55 takedown so am super excited about it.


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I'm interpreting "least diverse" to mean least versatile - for me that would have to be my Ruger #1 in 22 Hornet. It does one thing really well, but not much else. For a relaxed day on sage rats or other varmints it's pretty hard to beat, shooting great with a 40gr V-Max at 2800-3000 fps, but it's pretty out of it's element for most other uses. That particular rifle only shoots one load really well too; it's definitely not one of those lucky rifles that just shoots everything well.

On the flip side I'd say my most versatile are my 35 caliber rifles, which will handle anything from mouse fart round ball loads to 300gr solids; jacketed, cast, coated, paper patched bullets, etc all work well. In commercial bullets, the options range from 60gr to 300+gr. They are equally at home with full power thumper loads, or suppressed subsonic loads with cast hollow points, or pistol bullets loaded fast for varmints or tree trimming. Fun times.

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.17 Rem, .204 Ruger, and 375 H&H


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A .30 Herrett in a 10 inch Contender.

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My least diverse is 22 L.R., with 30-06 following.

My most diverse is my 10.5X47R, followed by 9.3X72R.


Hunt with Class and Classics

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Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”







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I don't have it yet, but theres a .17 Remington on the way...


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
.17 Rem, .204 Ruger, and 375 H&H


The 375 is pretty diverse - the bigger the cartridge the more diverse they are. Rabbits and above can be taken with the 375.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Fireball, Bill again. That load took me about two to three weeks evenings & weekends & I tried many different ear plugs of different density till I got lucky & for no apparent reason the ones that are dome shaped (who New) A. & they were Orange in colour like that should make a difference??! I was about to give up & bingo. No I sold that one to, I know I know. That savage will be super cool, tried to buy a 99 once in 38-55 with 26" octagon bbl. but it wasn't a take down. Guy that came to a New Years shoot we have on January 1st. No one knows the yardage, it's off hand only, no scopes, & if it's tied after 10 rounds then the first guy to hit the 500yd gong wins. It's been a tie twice & it took a few rounds by each shooter to finally break the tie. It's a loooong way to 500yds standing on yer hind legs. I haven't won it yet came in second once, it's usually won by a guy that shoots his dam black powder front stuffer. He & another black powder shooter that shoots some BP matches, I wish there'd stay home once so every body else stood a chance. Dam. I'm out, 🐾👣🇨🇦

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
.17 Rem, .204 Ruger, and 375 H&H


The 375 is pretty diverse - the bigger the cartridge the more diverse they are. Rabbits and above can be taken with the 375.


Not saying it can't kill a lot of things. I just don't care to pay the price to shoot things not needing the power of the .375. I also don't care to hump around a rifle that weights that much when not needed for the task at hand.

My picks were based on what I shoot and how much I shoot them. Your mileage may vary!


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50 bmg.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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.17 CO2 rifle and .416 Rigby.


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.54 Burnside, with .44 Henry a close second.


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"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
.17 CO2 rifle and .416 Rigby.


But the .416 Rigby has mucho cool factor!


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My .458's.
45/70, 458 Winchester, 458 Lott.
Nothing wrong with them. Just prefer 416 Ruger and 416 Remington for my hunting with above 375's.

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Technically speaking "least diverse" is actually the same as "most common".


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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I suspect most of us realized he meant "versatile," more than "least diverse." But whatever.


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There is a 32 Winchester Special in my safe. I guess I would have to hang the star of "least versatile/diverse" on that one.


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I suspect most of us realized he meant "versatile," more than "least diverse." But whatever.


That would be something else again. But whatever.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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I'd like a blued Henry lever gun in 327 Federal. I am not sure any of the available bullets would hold up to rifle velocities.

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