24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Sycamore I understand lib's are challenged in the humor department, my couch still resides in Mt. and no they haven't thrown me down the mine shaft..... yet

Now if you could post a pic of 7000ft weed eating I would be much obliged.... oh hell any pic will do


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
GB1

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Syc,
Weather has and always will play a role in animal movement during hunting hours. Changing up tactics to improve odds of success can be done over a quick strategy meeting amongst the crew knowing there’s animals available requiring only a change of hunting techniques...

Our crew just had to do this finding uncommonly warm, dry weather for a 2nd year in a row. We should have had 2 bulls down in 4 days of hunting instead of only one. It was a mistake a pard made. The key is animals in the area to hunt.

I wouldn’t say someone is a poor hunter, if the hunting grounds they’ve spent much of their life scouting and hunting becomes a barren landscape for furred animals after an increase of wolf presence in the area...Further, you take an area that had historically held an abundance of game and now doesn’t. How do you expect a hunter to change tactics on non-existent animals, or move to another hunting ground, especially when hunting a boundary unit that prevents you from pulling stakes and moving 30-40 miles into a new area?

You can’t...You’re stuck hunting the unit. Over the years I’ve had to make several changes in hunting tactics, mostly to follow the animals, but also to get away from the increase in hunting pressure from individuals who lack area knowledge and screw up a well planned hunt for myself and crew....

But this conversation is about the impact of wolves, and to a degree the added pairs of teeth they bring to some areas already holding predators that enjoy dining on ungulates. They certainly don’t make it any easier, and without living within or nearby the hunting grounds you plan to hunt. It can be very disappointing to arrive days before the opener only to discover wolf tracks and no game.

Lastly, living at 7k elevation would be difficult for me to hunt being I spend most of my life at sea level. Congratulations to you running your weed eater without getting winded. I would hire my yard work out, so I could concentrate on working a heavy pack running up and down your mountains to be ready to hunt...😎



Good post, but not following you on some of it.

IME, multiple things have changed over 40 years on all the places I hunt in Arizona. Weather has changed, population of the state has changed, the way other hunters hunt has changed. Where I'm at no wolves (yet) but they are in the eastern part of the state now.

In AZ not uncommon to hunt a different unit every year, up to 100-200 miles away, or even the border 300 miles away.

Forest structure has changed, more logging on the 1980s, then 20 years of very little, now starting to pick up a little again.

Bigger fires, now have some burns to hunt.

GPS, maps, Google earth, game cameras have really changed the way other people hunt, and their has been a bump (in my opinion) in outfitter/guided hunting.

Travel trailers and UTVs have made a big difference in how much country people can travel to hunt in a day.

Schidt-load of changes without wolves.

I expect there are changes due to wolves, but I doubt all the change people are noticing can be laid solely at the feet of the wolves.


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Originally Posted by irfubar
Sycamore I understand lib's are challenged in the humor department, my couch still resides in Mt. and no they haven't thrown me down the mine shaft..... yet

Now if you could post a pic of 7000ft weed eating I would be much obliged.... oh hell any pic will do


I'll take a picture of the woodpile tomorrow! guest appearance by a rental yard splitter!


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
My guess with Arizona's dry climate and relatively low game populations wolves will be devastating.... same for Nevada....


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,230
Originally Posted by irfubar
My guess with Arizona's dry climate and relatively low game populations wolves will be devastating.... same for Nevada....



20 years on the east side of the state. up to about 130 wolves now. most of the pushback is from ranchers. I'm not clear on changes to elk permits (I don't hunt that area) It would be units 1, 2, and 3 I think. KRP and Dennisinaz probably know more


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
IC B2

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,031
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,031
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Sycamore
Some things no one has mentioned:

How did the moose and elk survive before the white man got here and the elk and moose had no "protection"?

Was the number of Elk and Moose "when I used to hunt them" the right number, or just the number that was there?

What does the browse/graze look like now that there are fewer herbivores?

Are any of you hunters younger and do any of you hunt harder than you did in the good old days?


Hunting hard? 😎

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


That’s a tough pack out. Did you drive to the log landing you shot it from?

I hunt E. WA, where wolves are starting to take hold, but I haven’t noticed a decline. Lots of hunters that don’t see elk blame the wolves. I heard this excuse several times this season. Less than two miles away elk herds of close to 50 were seen several days in a row. Even though I saw only 6 cows in 8 days, I’m leery of blaming the wolves.

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Originally Posted by MHWASH
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Sycamore
Some things no one has mentioned:

How did the moose and elk survive before the white man got here and the elk and moose had no "protection"?

Was the number of Elk and Moose "when I used to hunt them" the right number, or just the number that was there?

What does the browse/graze look like now that there are fewer herbivores?

Are any of you hunters younger and do any of you hunt harder than you did in the good old days?


Hunting hard? 😎

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


That’s a tough pack out. Did you drive to the log landing you shot it from?

I hunt E. WA, where wolves are starting to take hold, but I haven’t noticed a decline. Lots of hunters that don’t see elk blame the wolves. I heard this excuse several times this season. Less than two miles away elk herds of close to 50 were seen several days in a row. Even though I saw only 6 cows in 8 days, I’m leery of blaming the wolves.


I wish we could have gotten a truck to that landing...All the ground we hunt is gate locked with access via foot, horse, or pedal bike. Nothing mechanical or electric is permitted.

The roads are patrolled by forest company employees looking for offenders, with State Police called in to cite for trespassing with a firearm - a felony for being stupid and not reading the big signs posted at multiple points of entry.

We went in two separate ways to reach the spots we hoped the elk would be opening morning. 2 pards had a 2.5 mile hike, but mostly under inclined roads with long pulls...2 others went in through a different gate that put travel at 3 miles, but a smidge less incline in exchange for a longer hike.

Once the meat was out of the clearcut, it’s just a matter of packing it mostly downhill to our trucks. 😎


Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,701
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,701
Wolves have had a serious impact on the recovery of elk in the Clearwater Basin country of North Central Idaho(Look at T Inmans map). But it was also a perfect storm in the sense because the winter of 95-96 hammered the elk in that area. I personally found dozens of winter killed elk. I'd guess the elk population easily dropped 50% and more like 70%. Habitat and calf survival was poor in this area prior to this die-off, but the elk were hanging on and hunting was decent.

Wolves showed up shortly after 1995 and the elk populations are just a fraction of what they were prior to the big winter kill and wolves showing up. This area had long been known as a "predator pit" due to black bears, cougars, some marginal winter range, and now wolves.

Front range elk units, closer to civilization and agriculture seem to be doing okay for elk. But wolves don't stay long near people or do well with an open season on them in these areas.

As far as killing wolves, hunting ain't going to do much in the above mentioned area, but it helps, trappers do better, but that ain't easy either. The wolf season is virtually open year-round in backcountry areas with multiple tags available. It's big country, heavily timbered, and hard to get to when hunting conditions would be good. Even though many claim wolves are behind every tree, they ain't....

I know a few people who have killed one wolf, but I don't personally know anybody that has killed two. Most wolves are killed incidently while elk hunting.

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,378
L
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
L
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,378
Interesting topic. Predator hunting is my favorite, mainly because of simplified logistics. I have spent at least 3 weeks of every year, recently as many as 10 weeks/year hunting wolves in Idaho and Montana w/ out success.
I have, in that time, seen plenty of deer and elk. Many were living and plenty were victims of predation. In most of Idaho and Montana the people who live on the land (ranchers] were universal in their opinions that predators were a significant problem. Their biggest concern, in my limited experience, was w/ coyotes and that wolves were close behind and lions and bears a distant, but not insignificant factor.

I have spent the last 25 days roaming the hills South of Yellowstone and have seen wolves and grizzlys several times and their tracks almost daily. All of the outfitters that I have encountered are cursing the predators at least as much as the warm weather. There are still some mighty impressive racks coming out of these mountains.

I believe that shrinking habitat due to increased human population is the greatest threat to wild animal numbers in our lifetime. Humans breed and compete for territory far more successfully than do the wild critters.

Mike's Law: Having a wolf tag will allow you to see more Big Game than wolves.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,812
T
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,812
I see the word "balance" being used as in "balance of nature." Although referred to frequently as a factual model, it is a common misconception and a dangerous concept. There is no balance but there is a pendulum and it swings very unevenly sometimes, but it does swing...until it doesn't.


"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
IC B3

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
O
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
O
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
lvmike ,

Do you shoot coyotes while wolf hunting ?

Have you called in any wolves ?


PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!


Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
D
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Originally Posted by toltecgriz
I see the word "balance" being used as in "balance of nature." Although referred to frequently as a factual model, it is a common misconception and a dangerous concept. There is no balance but there is a pendulum and it swings very unevenly sometimes, but it does swing...until it doesn't.


Exactly. But liberals and urbanites don't understand basic ecosystem biology, and yet they make the rules. It's a great way to ruin a good thing.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
O
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
O
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Originally Posted by toltecgriz
I see the word "balance" being used as in "balance of nature." Although referred to frequently as a factual model, it is a common misconception and a dangerous concept. There is no balance but there is a pendulum and it swings very unevenly sometimes, but it does swing...until it doesn't.


Exactly. But liberals and urbanites don't understand basic ecosystem biology, and yet they make the rules. It's a great way to ruin a good thing.

+2


PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!


Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,378
L
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
L
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,378
Originally Posted by ol_mike
lvmike ,

Do you shoot coyotes while wolf hunting ?

Have you called in any wolves ?



I definitely shoot coyotes if they come in while calling. I have been told that wolves and coyotes don't share territory but I have seen their tracks in the same area. Last week I saw a Wolf in the Pacific Creek riverbed and called it w/ a cottontail in distress call. It showed interest but didn't come in and may have already seen me. I couldn't have shot him anyway as you need a special tag for this close to Yellowstone. In this region I only call where I have good visibility due to seeing grizzly tracks almost daily.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
O
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
O
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,186
OK thanks - good luck !


PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!


Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,193
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,193
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Originally Posted by ol_mike
lvmike ,

Do you shoot coyotes while wolf hunting ?

Have you called in any wolves ?



I definitely shoot coyotes if they come in while calling. I have been told that wolves and coyotes don't share territory but I have seen their tracks in the same area. Last week I saw a Wolf in the Pacific Creek riverbed and called it w/ a cottontail in distress call. It showed interest but didn't come in and may have already seen me. I couldn't have shot him anyway as you need a special tag for this close to Yellowstone. In this region I only call where I have good visibility due to seeing grizzly tracks almost daily.


mike r


You may have perked his curiosity with that distress call, but I'll bet unless he was a hungry, lone animal that's all you were doing. I have not had much luck at all using prey distress sounds with wolves. I have called wolves in with non distress cow elk calls, but when specifically targeting wolves I leave all the food source calls at home.

Wolves hunt in packs and seem to prefer perfectly healthy animals, other than those that have been weakened by winter. I use nothing but wolf vocals anymore and have had found more success. Use their extremely territorial and pack nature to your advantage. Don't overlook a pup in distress call though.



Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,165
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,165
I have lived most of my life in areas with wolves but it has only been in the last fifteen years or so that they have become responsible for all of the decline in ungulate populations. One area which had a lot of moose and a pretty good wolf population, saw a hefty decline in moose which coincided with a more liberal moose season and increased access; yet it was the wolves which were entirely responsible.
Another area was, essentially, devoid of big game but I saw one wolf and tracks of one other. The one I saw was hunting mice. I wasn't sure if the lack of game was due to these two wolves or the fact that I was within snowmobile range of an Indian reserve. GD

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,971
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,971
Originally Posted by greydog
I wasn't sure if the lack of game was due to these two wolves or the fact that I was within snowmobile range of an Indian reserve. GD
I've often wondered how the Alaska caribou herd could survive with natives on snow machines and carrying rifles. Aren't the natives allowed to kill fish and game without intervention by conservation laws?


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,520
K
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
K
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,520
This is a dumb question but I’m serious as I’ve no experience with mule deer, but wouldn’t seeing 100 of any big game animal feeding in a 15 acre field be a sign of overpopulation and that your headed for a crash?

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,165
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,165
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by greydog
I wasn't sure if the lack of game was due to these two wolves or the fact that I was within snowmobile range of an Indian reserve. GD
I've often wondered how the Alaska caribou herd could survive with natives on snow machines and carrying rifles. Aren't the natives allowed to kill fish and game without intervention by conservation laws?

Yep.

Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

667 members (12344mag, 1minute, 1eyedmule, 10gaugeman, 1beaver_shooter, 10ring1, 65 invisible), 3,105 guests, and 1,293 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,190,701
Posts18,456,746
Members73,909
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.123s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9141 MB (Peak: 1.0916 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-20 02:24:02 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS