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Originally Posted by m1919
Couple questions first:

1. Which ammo did you try?
2. How many shots per group?
3. How many foulers did you shoot between each ammo swap?
4. Was the stringing horizontal, vertical, or both?
5. Which rings?
6. Did you clean the bore?

As far as scopes, a Tasco would not be be my choice...I'd use a SS ..in 10x or higher.

Wind is a huge factor....




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Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by hasbeen1945
Jim, your sure not the first one to shoot out their aiming point. Hasbeen


It happens....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by kragman1
So, took a CZ 455 heavy barrel .22LR to the range today and stunk the place up.

Gun has a CZ fluted barrel, laminated thumbhole and the Mr Fly trigger (which is pretty darn good). I put a nice Tasco World Class Plus straight 24X on it. I also made up some targets with different sizes of rings to work with the 1/8 target dot reticle. The target/reticle combo worked very well.

I tried a bunch of ammo at 50 yards, with little success. It was very windy (I had to put rocks on the target stand to stop it from being blown over) and at one point I realized that I needed to retighten my scope rings (they weren't so bad). Best groups were probably in the 5/8 to 1 inch or more range but they often didn't "track" meaning that some shots were consistent with sight placement when the gun was fired, some were not.

So I kept playing with the way I washolding and resting the gun, and was able to make a few groups that did track the way they should. They ran around 3/8 or a bit smaller.

It seems that the gun is very sensitive to even the lightest pressure changes forward of the action, including where the forend is rested and if I put any finger pressure on it.
Ran out of time before I could really prove it but that's where I'm at.

Never had this problem before, and I don't want to start making changes without learning more.

So lets have it - does this sound familiar to anyone, and what are the fixes?




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Problem might be because it's a CZ.


(Just joking, but had to say it, no-one else had.)


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Maybe I should have called it "Brand X"....? lol

No worries, there are brand haters for every brand.

For myself, my problem is the opposite.
I see a potential gem in every .22 I come across if I just find the right ammo, get the action screw(s) right, etc.

As far as CZ goes, I have a 455 Lux that is light, handy, and really shoots. I've never done anything but cycle ammo through it either.

Hoping that the Varmint I posted about shoots as well.


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Originally Posted by K22
EDIT: Flyers, inherent in even the best standard grade ammo, make evaluations tough. The two fellow geezers at my range that hold regular "dot-shooting" matches usually use SV, which is very reliable and consistent, but still get flyers on occasion. I think DigitalDan said Euro-stuff is better in that regard.



The quote is worth repeating. I've never had great accuracy luck with CCI SV ammo. Not a slam, just an observation concerning my rimfires rifles. What has been consistent in accuracy for me was RWS, Eley, Wolf, SK, Norma, and some of the old PMC ammo. The one I have always used the most is RWS Subsonic. This has been by go to Squirrel hunting ammo since my discovery in the late 70's and in most of my rimfires it shoots like match ammo. At the current $.05 a round it is hard not to like it.
Having said all that, wind and cheap rings can be an accuracy killer along with action screw torque unless the rifle is pillared and bedded.
Unless your scope has been abused those old Japanese Tasco's were darn good scopes. I assume your 24X model has the AO adjustment and it was set perfectly for the distance you were shooting.
Since CZ's are good shooters,[except the one I "had"], you can temporarily eliminate that from the list.

The target below was shot with 50 consecutive rds. of RWS Subsonic or Norma Subsonic [which is made by RWS], I don't recall which one it was. The rifle was a Kimber Hunter Silhouette I bedded in a Kimber Varmint stock and the distance was 50yds. The black portion of the target is 1 1/8" across. This is rifle is fun to shoot but not the most accurate one I own, so hence a flyer or 2 which could have been the shooter. If I was to shoot 50 rounds at one target again I would adjust the poi to be above or below the center of the black. It became a guessing game with the center gone. Ignorance on my part. blush grin

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com][/quote]

Are you referring to RWS SSHPs or RN?

I had a 453 for a while, after a 455 was kinda disappointing. It would put both the SSHPs and Aguila Rifle Match (the old gold and black box) regularly into the 4s, sometimes the 3s. I talked myself into selling it to buy something else, also now gone. Too soon old, too late smart.

My current 455 in SS lies somewhere in the middle of the previous ones. It's decent as a hunting rifle, and has the best trigger of the three, right out of the box. This one will stick, unless it gets gifted to a grandchild perhaps. Pretty busy now, but need to give it another go with some of the good stuff.

Aguila Match has been good enough to merit a try, if for no other reason than the Eley priming has that peculiar odor that might make the other boys at the range.think you're using the real deal.

One of the dot shooters bought a 457 in the At-One stock. He had me fire a 5-shot group with it yesterday. Result: one elongated hole with a lot of SV that's been especially good for him. Don't want to tote that one in the woods, but they really did the new action up right. Very solid, good trigger, and all the stuff we've carped about with previous models fixed. The At-One stock in brown looks much better in person than the fancy-colored ones they show in the Boyds ads.


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I was referring to the HP's.

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Thanks. Still have 7 or 8 hundred of those on hand.

Bought a couple cheap bricks of the HSHPs. More pistol ammo.......


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The recovered RWS Subsonic hp's I removed from Squirrels looked like Nosler Partitions. An awesome accurate and quiet round.

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Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Trying to shoot consistent precision groups with. 22LR on a windy day is a futile pursuit at best. Those groups mean nothing and are not indicative of what your combo is capable of. Wait for calm day.

Edited to add that if your gal is to just burn Ammo for fun then by all means blast away, but don’t make the mistake of thinking you are shooting anywhere near what the rifle/scope/Ammo combo is capable of.

And some days it pays to use wind flags. (Digital Dan)

This was discussed at length in a recent thread here.

In our state senior games, Rimfire Benchrest at 50 yards is 12 targets with 25 bulls each for a total of 300 shots for a possible total of 3000 points. One shooter has shot a perfect 3000 three years in a row. That means he's never missed the half inch 10 ring in 900 consecutive shots. This year he shot 80 Xs. That means taking out the pin head center completely. His rifle is custom and he told me he shoots Center-X ammo. He uses five wind flags.

The guy is a retired SWAT officer. Who says cops can't shoot?

Paul




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Originally Posted by Paul39
Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Trying to shoot consistent precision groups with. 22LR on a windy day is a futile pursuit at best. Those groups mean nothing and are not indicative of what your combo is capable of. Wait for calm day.

Edited to add that if your gal is to just burn Ammo for fun then by all means blast away, but don’t make the mistake of thinking you are shooting anywhere near what the rifle/scope/Ammo combo is capable of.

And some days it pays to use wind flags. (Digital Dan)

This was discussed at length in a recent thread here.

In our state senior games, Rimfire Benchrest at 50 yards is 12 targets with 25 bulls each for a total of 300 shots for a possible total of 3000 points. One shooter has shot a perfect 3000 three years in a row. That means he's never missed the half inch 10 ring in 900 consecutive shots. This year he shot 80 Xs. That means taking out the pin head center completely. His rifle is custom and he told me he shoots Center-X ammo. He uses five wind flags.

The guy is a retired SWAT officer. Who says cops can't shoot?

Paul




I agree completely. I have a wind flag myself and used to shoot competitive benchrest. But that’s not the same thing we’re talking about. We’re talking about finding the best possible rifle/scope/Ammo combo which is best dome when you take out every other factor that could affect your group size. The other thing is beating the wind once you’ve found that right combo which is a very different thing altogether.

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How can a shooter test each of those factors while ignoring the effect of the wind? Unless the shooter tests under ideal conditions of no wind or mirage, if such exist, or in a tunnel which few of us have access to?

In reality, most shooters tend to ignore the wind, thereby confounding their results. That is what we're talking about here.

Paul


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Thats a great point Paul, but not really the original point...

Yes, I was aware that the wind was going to spoil my shooting and decided to give it a try anyway.

But - at the end of the day (while it was still windy) I noticed that aiming by using pressure on the pistol grip only I greatly reduced my group size.

That's what I was really getting at. And it turns out that others have noticed the same thing with the same model.
I'm just trying to learn more about that.


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My solution, FWIW:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


I am..........disturbed.

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Originally Posted by Paul39
How can a shooter test each of those factors while ignoring the effect of the wind? Unless the shooter tests under ideal conditions of no wind or mirage, if such exist, or in a tunnel which few of us have access to?

In reality, most shooters tend to ignore the wind, thereby confounding their results. That is what we're talking about here.

Paul


No one is saying ignore the wind, it’s actually the opposite. You try to minimize the effect as much as possible by testing loads on calm days or early in the mornings and late afternoons. We’re talking about load development. Not Just shooting when you have to regardless of conditions. Any bncherester or precision shooter will tell you that you don’t test loads on windy days.

Respectfully, if you don’t get it, nothing I or anyone else can say will make any difference so there’s no point in getting into an argument over it. You do it your way and I’ll do it mine.

The real point is we all enjoy shooting and that’s why we’re here. Have fun and I’ll do the same...


Last edited by Dryfly24; 11/13/19.
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Actually, we're all saying the same thing.

Good shooting to all.

Paul


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Quote
I put a nice Tasco World Class Plus straight 24X on it.

This is your problem.



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ConradCA - this is one of the made in Japan (Asia Optical) scopes, not the Chinese ones with the same name.

It IS the first rifle I've had it on, and there COULD be trouble with the scope but I doubt it, especially when my groups closed up nicely once I noticed how the rifle responded to pressure.

Thats what this post is actually about - learning about the pressure problem. I've never had a rifle that was so dramatic to light finger pressure.

Last edited by kragman1; 11/16/19.

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As for a rifle being sensitive to the touch. I have a Remington 504 that I fought with for years regarding sensitivity. I would get mad put it away for anywhere from a month to over a year at a time. I tried a lot of different stuff. Even ended up adding a third action screw and a Lilja barrel that was used in a Precision Shooting article just so that I would have a barrel of known quality. I've never saw a rifle this sensitive. To me, it was useless for much of anything. It took very little to turn three shot groups in the .3's into 5 shots in the 1 1/2" or larger range.

One day while playing around with action screw torque I decided to really crank down hard on the middle screw. As it came from the factory this would have been the rear screw. I had always left it just snug because that is what I've always read regarding middle screws. Lo and behold, the sensitivity is almost gone out of it. Enough so that it is one of my favorite squirrel killers. Not my most accurate .22 but then again I haven't tried any of the true quality ammo in it since discovering it's secret. CCI SS will stay in the 1/2" area pretty easily and sometimes 5 will go a lot smaller. Like I said, all of the sensitivity isn't gone so a better shooter than I could probably make it sing a pretty tune. This same rifle also likes a pressure point out near the end of the barrel.

Regarding the Rem 504 sporters in general. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of there accuracy problems is/were/are related to a stock problem. What that problem is I don't have a clue but I have read about a few that no matter how they were bedded or what was done to them didn't become good shooters until the stock was changed. I mention that because you say the problem exist with other 455 thumbholes. The barrel I bought was a very good shooter in a 504 Varmint stock. That article is where I got the idea for the third action screw, the bedding and a couple other ideas. Food for thought.

As others said, don't jump to any fast hard conclusions until you have shot it in better conditions. Preferably several times just to be sure of consistency.


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Thanks Dave!

Yes, its way to soon to do anything but shoot more and pay attention.
I don't know much about these guns other than the heavy barrels seem to be lesser shooters than the light barrel guns (if you can believe everything you read).
From a distance, I've wondered if the rotoforging equipment they have is truly up to precision displacing the extra barrel material (its kinda related to what I do for a living...). Or if the action footprint only leaves enough stock wood for sketchy "bedding", meaning that it gets by OK with the light barrel guns, not so much with the heavy barrels. Its all just conjecture though.
I'm guessing that there's nothing special about this, and that I'm about to learn some stuff that a bunch of people already know. I'm just looking for a head start on the learning part. ha ha!


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