Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Vihtavuori powder corroding brass cases

I was shooting my 45-70 Marlin Cowboy this afternoon. Brought out some old reloads with Vv n133 and 400 gr cast bullets. I was amazed at the corrosion on some of the cases. I shot one just to see what it would do, got a hollow sound, indicating the powder had deteriorated. Wonder how much powder deterioration is in the rounds not showing corrosion. BTW, climate controlled storage.

I remember reading somewhere about Vv powder doing this, can't remember where. These load are probably 15 yrs old, but I'm guessing. W/W brass.

Any info would be appreciated. I like Vv powder, haven't seen such as this with other powders.

DF

That's ugly!

Have you pulled a bullet or few to see what the inside of an unfired case looks like? I have found significant green corrosion from lubes, some worse than others. Just a thought.

Paul

Inside a fired case, doesn't look that bad. Will pull one and check powder.

DF

I have been loading V V N133 since the late 90's in 223. I've never seen anything like the photos.

YMMV,
David

DF,

And where do to you live?

Not an easy photo for an iPhone...

You can see a ring of corrosion at the base of the bullet.

DF, I don't think the powder is responsible for the corrosion. The area looks like it was resting against something that held moisture. Leather perhaps? Or stored in an area that gets damp.

I know, I know, humid, hot climate.

But, my shop has central air and heat. These loads have spent their entire lives in a controlled climate atmosphere, not swealtering away under a hot Louisiana sun...

Pampered but still corroding away. Actually the powder looks and smells pretty good, just affected where you see the corrosion.

But, you know I'd have to light one off. It sounded different, not the full, deep throated 45-70 sound you'd expect.

DF.

Stored in a plastic ctg box, nothing damp.

DF

Happened to me with Vit 133 in .222 and .223 cases. Also had a 2# bottle go bad, it had been opened, used and put away, when opened several years later, brown cloud came out. Opened another that had been opened several years prior it seemed ok, loaded some .222 and got squibs and alot of un-burned powder. Emailed them, guy calls me the next day we discussed it in length on the phone, short of it he/they had never heard of the powder corroding cases or going bad, insinuated improper storage. All my powder and primers are stored in the heated and cooled gun room, powder in over head cabinet and primers in a file cabinet on the other end of the room.

I have several other open Vit powders that are 10-12 years old that are just fine.

Have not had a problem with any other powders and most of my powders are 5-30 years old.

jme

arky

Judging by the location of the corrosion, my guess would be a reaction between the lube and the brass. The powder looks good, does it smell new/fresh.?

arky, could you clarify on that first 2# bottle? Had it ever been opened before, or was that the first time to break the seal when the brown cloud came out?

IIRC, the bullets are 405 gr. Speer Idaho Territory swaged with dry lube. Maybe the coating reacts with the powder. But only a few are affected. Most of the box looks OK. The ones without corrosion shot pretty well.

DF

Yes, the 2# bottle in question had been opened years before.
I edited the post to answer Gringo's question. My brain and fingers are not always on the same wavelength.

Thank you sir.

I had seen somewhere on the Internet where some bullets coating would react with powder - I forget the details.

I've had powder go off due to poor storage conditions - exposed to a hot wall repeatedly over many years, but it typically corroded through the case at the mouth and/or the primer - something turned to liquid and went looking for places to seep out of. Your's looks to be corroding at the base of the projectile where powder meets coating.

Yes, the possibilities include breakdown products from a deteriorating propellant (which typically include nitric acid) collecting there near the base of the bullet because of the direction the rounds face in storage, and attacking preferentially in the crevice.

It doesn't look like an external cause.

That makes sense.

I'm not sure about the coating on those bullets. I don't see MidwayUSA still listing them, not sure Speer still makes them.

I didn't smell any acidic aroma, in fact the powder I pulled from a corroded case still smells like it should. There was none of that brown dust you see and smell when powder goes bad. For sure you can detect the nitric acid smell when that happens. This is different, just corrosion where you see it, the rest of the powder doesn't look affected.

The fired round that sounded less than full power probably had more powder deterioration than the one I pulled.

DF.

A search on Vihtavuori and corrosive found this:

Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo? - The Fal Files

Vihtavuori N150 gone bad - M14 Forum

I've had vintage powders go bad with brown acidic smelling dust and fumes like your second link. Just never had any do the corrosion trick like this.

DF