Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Model 700 - accidental discharge

All:

Looking for some guidance, had a scary situation last weekend while on stand with my tried and true model 700 in 308. Just so folks are aware, I had this gun built some 15+ years ago, Douglas barrel, Shilen trigger, McMillian stock . . . it's shot a lot of whitetails over the years and probably has 300-400 rounds down the tube w/o incident, great gun.

So while in my stand last weekend, before shooting light I was thinking that my Father just had his Model 700 undergo the product recall fix with the safety/trigger situation about a year ago and my mind starting thinking about that. So the long and short of it was I put my right hand on the forearm of the stock and with my index finger and thumb on the safety I pushed the safety forward into the "fire" position. No worries, gun was safely pointed away. Well the gun went bang and I know with 100% that my finger was nowhere near the trigger. Scared the crap out of me and I really don't know why I checked it in the first place.

Am interested in any thoughts, obviously I won't hunt with it until I get it checked out. But I have done no trigger adjustments or anything to the gun. Open to suggestions and wondering if anyone has had this happen to them.

Thanks!

That is some weird coincidence or you psychically fired the gun.

Also if you "had this gun built some 15+ years ago, Douglas barrel, Shilen trigger, McMillian stock" then your statement as to "I have done no trigger adjustments or anything to the gun" is way off. Your post doesn't exactly make sense.

My guess, if it happened as explained, is you have 15+ years of grit and oil in that Shilen trigger and the sear /weight set too low. Good luck.

I see you stated it’s a Shilen trigger. Do you use a bore guide when you clean your rifle? Have you ever flushed the trigger or cleaned it?
More than likely the trigger has some cleaning solvent, oil and crude built up in it. Remove the barreled action from the stock and flush the trigger with brake cleaner or lighter fluid. You can remove the trigger from the action to clean it also.

Shilen trigger's not supposed to do that, just the old Walker trigger.

That is weird, for sure. How light was it set?

I'd call Shilen if it was mine, see what they say. The safety is supposed to take the slack off the sear, block the trigger. If the sear was somehow not set to catch the striker properly, I can see how releasing the safety may release the striker...

First I heard that about the Shilen, which is a good trigger.

DF

Nope, I'd replace the trigger with after market.Timney or Triggertech.

Guidance. Clean the fool out of the trigger. Do NOT oil it. Then, unloaded at home, still following Rule No. 1 of gun safety, do the slam test. Bump the cocked, unloaded rifle on 'safe' firmly on the carpeted floor. Pull the trigger, on 'safe', then flip to 'fire'. If it releases, even once after at least ten attempts, you got a problem. (Glad you pointed in a safe direction while in the stand.)

What I meant was the gun was built, including the current trigger and I have never messed with it, period.

No way I had my finger near the trigger guard and it’s currently set at around 3.5 pounds. Thanks guys for the thoughts.

Had the same thing happen to me. Took out the trigger and put it in my sonic cleaner. Put it back in and hosed it out with Zippo lighter fluid. Fixed.

I will say you should just buy a Triggertech. You’ll never get rid of that memory of your rifle going off.

What is a trigger tech? Not familiar but appreciate the guidance. And YES, I will never feel comfortable again with this setup!!

I'm a Triggertech fan for sure but there's nothing wrong with a Shilen trigger either. I own both with zero issues. Guns are like vehicles, some people put gas in them and drive them til they don't run others take cars of there stuff and they get many many trouble free miles from them.

Why?

Why? Why not?

I would promptly throw away and then replace any trigger/safety that did that to me. Period. Piece of mind. I fully understand that cleaning and perhaps an adjustment may correct it, but I would never trust it.

That’s where I’m at sir, I concur.

Why? It’s not the triggers fault that it hasn’t had any bit of maintenance or cleaning for 15 years! It most likely doesn’t need any adjustment. Just a through cleaning like all triggers should get at least once a year or after a hunting season especially if in some bad weather conditions.
Cfran If your going to throw it away I’ll take it and pay for the shipping!😁

Good thought but I won’t give it to anyone. Couldn’t live with myself if something bad happened down the road.

If you're sincere about safety and making things right then you should at the least send the trigger back to Shilen and let them diagnose the issue. Would be the least you could do since you publicly muddied up their name to those that don't know any better.

Absolutely.

You owe that to yourself and to Shilen.

My bet, they'll take care of you, Pretty sure they'll want you to send it to them.

I would like to know what went wrong, they'll want to know what went wrong, you should want know what went wrong.

DF

Where was your trigger finger?

FYI, you don’t have to test a safety with a round chambered. Do yourself a favor and sell all of your firearms and take up golf.

That is not what he did. Don’t act like a tool.

The safety works precisely the same on the Shilen trigger as it does on the Walker trigger. If the safety does not cam the sear up sufficiently and the trigger is pulled while the safety is engaged, the rifle will fire when the safety is disengaged. This can occur due to wear, manufacturing variations, or a stock which has not enough clearance to allow the safety to engage fully. I have seen the same thing on numerous triggers which have a safety which operates in the same manner.
The thing to do is to investigate the problem , determine the cause, and take corrective action. If you are not qualified to do this yourself, you may entrust the job to one who is.
The alternative is to take a bunch of abuse from some of the know-it-alls on some forum and go from there. GD

“ So the long and short of it was I put my right hand on the forearm of the stock and with my index finger and thumb on the safety I pushed the safety forward into the "fire" position. No worries, gun was safely pointed away. Well the gun went bang and I know with 100% that my finger was nowhere near the trigger.“

Alwaysoutdoors, read the post. The truth hurts.

Hummmmm?

Unruly triggers are nothing to be second-guessed.

I golf as well, and you should learn to read you moron. You aren’t dealing with an idiot.

To the other guy who inquired on where my hands/fingers were. Right hand on the forearm. Left index finger and thumb slowly side the safety to off. No digits NEAR the trigger. I know there are a lot of dumb people out there, I’m not one of them. Needless to say I finished the hunt with my NULA.

Which model Shilen is it? The standard is adjustable from
1 1/2lbs - 3 lbs and the competition is adjustable from 2-6oz.
You stated yours is 3 1/2lbs?
You out of the blue thought about your dad's 700 going back for the recall (that apparently still had the factory trigger) and wondered about your own 700 (with a Shilen trigger) then carefully let your safety off preparing for an accidental discharge by holding the forearm and grip like you "knew" it would happen, then the mother of all coincidences happen and it does indeed accidentally discharge?!
I'll be the prick to say it....Bullfugginshit.

Post pics of the gun in question and the Shilen in particular along with the NULA you "finished" the hunt with.

So, now that you have been made aware of the likely cause(s), what is your plan of attack? GD

Happy to text both to you and you post them. Deal?

And then you can eat crow, deal?

BTW, it’s the standard model and i recalled 3.5 but maybe it’s 3. Sorry dude you picked the wrong guy to call out.

And for what it’s worth about 1 month ago after shooting the gun on the range I thought my safety seemed a little stiff. That’s the only reason I checked it. Sure glad I did.

Now happy to show you up when you are ready.

Again, removing the cartridge from the chamber would have prevented you sending a bullet who knows where! If you were not an idiot, you would halve removed the cartridge first.

Region6

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020580226

Buy this. Win

Whoever would like to PM a cell number I will gladly share the picture I just took 5 minutes ago with trigger and NULA so Jackwagon can apologize.

Just looking to draw on the expertise of the group here, am not trolling or looking to tear down products.

Edit your original post to start with "this one time.....at band camp...". It would at least add an element of entertainment to an otherwise ridiculous story.

The gun was leaning at a decent angle away into a 30” plus basswood. Move along, I can’t help you.

#1 unload the gun first

Thought you wanted a pic? Now you want to quote movies. Cute.

I'll go ahead and apologize now.
I'm sorry you're an idiot.
There....feel better now?

Move along..... As long as you unload your gun and follow, I am here to help.

Dump the trigger and buy a replacement for piece of mind if nothing else. Even if you clean it and can't recreate it, it will always be in the back of your mind. I had it happen to me with a Walker trigger on my first custom. It isn't a good feeling.

Why would you take all this precaution (holding the gun firmly, pointing at a 30" basswood etc..) instead of just ejecting the round and trying it on an empty chamber? Especially if it was "before shooting light" while "on stand"?
I know the LAST thing I want to do after making the effort to sneak into my stand in the early morning hours is go shoot off a round and ruin my chances of seeing game.

Pics texted to another member.

Brought to you by another member. LOL

Ut oh, it's a Leupold! LOL

It was really hard to Google up and image that had a NULA, and a barreled action 700 with a Shilen trigger. LOL.

I’m reaching out to Shilen and will work with them to test out my existing trigger, will be interesting to see what they find.

Jackwagon- I usually fire a warning shot to start every hunt, tends to equalize the playing field, otherwise I punch my tags to quickly. Wow.

^ This a thousand times.

Nice to see some common sense is still a thing in some places...

Make sure to let us know what shillen says

I was hunting on a ranch in South Texas were they brought in a Wildlife Biologist to help us manage the Deer herd. Mainly he was there to tell us what needed culling and it was a free hunt for him. So this joker is bragging about his custom Sako and how he can shot deer over the horizon, I tell him that I thought the whole idea around hunting was to get as close to the game as you possible so you can to make a clean one shot kill. Anyway we continue to piss each other off the rest of the evening, you might say I didn't like this MF. In the morning he decides he going to hunt with with another guy which doesn't hurt my feelings at all. They get in the stand and this guy loads his rifle which is a 7mm Rem ultra Mag and it wont go on safety. So what do you think the old rifle expert does? He setts it in his lap with the barrel pointed up and starts forcing the safety. Ole murphies law kicks in and the rifle goes off in side the stand blowing a hole through the roof of the blind. At breakfast they are laughing about it and thanking their lucky stars that they are not hurt other than the hearing loss. I ask one simple question, why didn't you unload the rifle when the rifle wouldn't go on safety. He didn't have a answer, so the same question goes out to each of you why would you ever test a loaded rifle for function while you are hunting. You should have checked it before the hunt.
TEXMAG

True and not ideal. I get all that, never happened on the range or in the 15+ years I owned it. Why did I have a feeling about it, not sure.

Hypothetical: I could have raised my gun up on a deer and gone off safe and replicated the situation I’d be in the same spot. But that’s not how it went, I was outside in a stand (open air not enclosed) gun pointed away and it wasn’t going to hurt anyone or anything if it went off.

Don’t compare to some joker ramming his action on a gun that wouldn’t function properly. I was in as close to an ideal situation to check it, period, end of story. And I thank my lucky stars that I am now more informed.

I've got 1 Shilen trigger, bought/installed it in '08. I've got +/- 3000 rounds through that rifle without any issues. That Shilen is easily my favorite aftermarket in a 700. Admittedly, I haven't owned a large number of aftermarket examples but I prefer it to the Rifle Basix, and Timney that I've owned.

None of the 700 triggers, factory or aftermarket "scare" me, they all do what they're supposed to with but a little TLC once and a while.

Simple thing to either clean or replace a trigger on a Rem 700. Very simple.

So you decided to test your rifle for function on a loaded chamber when you had concerns and you are now defending your decision when it is pointed out to you how it wasn't the smartest move. Please don't hunt where near me.

Also, it is my experience that someone who has to try to convince others that he is not an idiot usually is one.

My thoughts too........

Replace it.

My 1974 production 700 that I bought new in 1975 has done this. The trigger has never been modified from factory and is kept clean. This isn't new news. Rather common knowledge since the 1950's for those who pay attention. I first was made aware of the potential of issues during the 1980's but shrugged them off as BS. Until one day at some point around 1990 I pulled the rifle up out of my safe to do some dry fire practice. As usual the 1st thing I did was open the action to verify it was unloaded. The next time I moved the safety I heard the firing pin drop. I thought that I MUST have had my finger on the trigger, so I cycled the action and made sure my finger was no where near the trigger and it dropped the firing pin again when the safety was moved. It did this just a few times, no more than 5 and it stopped. I tried dozens of times to try to repeat, but it wouldn't. I continued hunting with the rifle until around 2005 when I just found something I liked better with no further incidents.

It sat in the safe only used occasionally but in 2014 it did exactly the same thing it had done 25 years earlier. I was only able to get it to do 3 times before it started working normally. Even though I rarely use the rifle anymore knowing one of my kids or grand kids will end up with it one day I bought a Timney trigger for it and replaced it myself.

Two incidents in 40 years isn't much. Just enough to create a bunch of non-believers. But if you do the research the issue was first noted in 1946. The issue is the trigger connector on those triggers. A device used on no other trigger by any other manufacturer. It is a tiny metal bar inside the trigger assembly that is free to move up and down as the rifle is handled. If it just happens to end up in the right spot at the wrong time the trigger doesn't completely reset and it only takes a slight movement of the gun for the sear to disengage. When that happens the guns safety is the only thing holding back the firing pin. Move the safety and the gun fires. Remington addressed the problem in the early 80's with a safety redesign that allowed the chamber to be unloaded without moving the safety to the fire position. This is when most incidents happened. This greatly reduced the number of incidents, but didn't address the real problem.

Every Remington bolt rifle made 1946-2007 except the 788 uses this trigger design. And it is just a matter of time before all of them drop the firing pin with no trigger pull. It is just a matter of when the trigger connector lines up in the wrong spot.

You'll read a lot of BS about how you won't have problems if the trigger is clean and adjusted properly. It is true that a dirty or improperly modified trigger will do this. And some incidents are due to this just like any other firearm. But Remington rifles have done it right out of the box, on the assembly line, and they do it far more often than any other manufacturer.

Remington destroyed all of their files documenting these issues in the 1980's just as they were being hit with a flurry of lawsuits. They claim because they need more file space. Sure they did. But estimates are that as many as 10,000 rifles have been returned to Remington since the 1950's with complaints that they were firing with no trigger pull. I've seen one document for 1980 where 134 rifles were returned just that year. If 1980 was a typical year, and the trigger was designed in 1946 that is 73 years X 134 = 9782. so the 10,000 number seems reasonable. How many Winchester, Savage, Weatherby, and Ruger rifles have been returned for firing with no trigger pull.

Probably the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock needed more file space when Hillary was running paper shredders at subpoena speed...

And more recently, her server was running out of room when those 30+K emails were deleted and destroyed.

Sure...

DF

This thread has degenerated into idiocy. Instead of a carefully thought out approach to diagnosing the problem with this particular rifle we have instead veered off into the fantasy world where the trigger connector is the root of all evil. The rifle in question does not have a Remington trigger and the trigger it does have has no connector so there is little point in flogging that particular horse any more.
Has the OP made any test of the safety function when the barreled action is out of the stock? Has he even tried to replicate the malfunction with the rifle unloaded and in the stock? If so, I must have missed it. The trigger for a Remington and it's safety mechanism is an exceedingly simple mechanism. Even the original Walker trigger, despite the efforts made to shroud it in mystery, is a simple mechanism and any issues are easily diagnosed unless one approaches it with such bias that he can see only what he wants to see.
By the way, I don't know how many Winchester, Savage, Weatherby, and Rugers have been returned for firing with no trigger pull but I have seen examples of each of those brands, among others, which did exactly that.
I have a Sako rifle with a Canjar trigger which had the same problem. I ascertained the cause of the problem (a worn camming surface on the safety) and corrected it by welding up, reshaping, and hardening the offending surface. Now it works as intended. I could have gone of on a rant about Canjar's design and accomplish just exactly what has been accomplished here; absolutely nothing. Figure out why the safety malfunctioned and fix the effin' thing. I would test it on an empty chamber, by the way . GD

Shilen will make it right.

Call them.

DF

Put a Timney in it, you are gonna worry about it every time you use it

You are going to have every Tom, Dick and Harry tell you what you did was wrong and blah, blah blah. With your gear, it comes down to having confidence in it. When you lose confidence, it's no longer fun. Replace the trigger with another Shilen. If confidence is lost in Shilen, go Timney or TriggerTech.

Also, not a bad idea to clean your triggers with Ronsonol lighter fluid every now and then.

I can remember years ago there were many gunsmiths that specialized in cleaning complex triggers in Colt revolvers. I would go back to the basics and start there.

1. Complete a NRA safety class. A refresh is never wasted time.
2. Send the gun into a gunsmith for a compete cleaning and adjustment.
3. Test the gun using a snap cap for all safe/fire conditions. Don't forget to use the rubber hammer in all directions.

After condemning the gun on a public form you will not be able to limit your liability without action.

I've had two Rem 700s slam fire on me over the years...both were somewhat older rifles with some use, but not abuse. I threw Timneys in both of them, and haven't had an issue since.

I don't know about the safety being clicked off issue, as I don't use them.

I had it happen many years ago. Seems that was when I knew everything and did my own trigger adjustment. A friend and I were sneaking up on some hogs and I pushed the safety off and almost shot him in the heel. Only trigger that I check adjustment on now is my 1 1/2 oz Jewell. I now use Jewell and Shilen triggers. I keep them clean by flushing them with lighter fluid and blow them out.

Have you tried to replicate the issue on an empty chamber since the incident?

He moved his rifle from safe to fire. I have done that in the stand a number of times. Wanted to feel it with gloved and or cold hands and see if there was any noise on a dead quiet morning. Muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Just what the hell is the matter with doing that? I am going to do the same thing when I get ready to shoot a deer.

I do a quick check of my rifle each morning for fit and function before loading up...I would never check a firearm for function while in the field on a hot chamber.

Your move not only blew off a round, you blew your hunting spot at least for that morning. Glad your okay! Triggers are cheap to replace for piece of mind. 😎

Paul,
Why would you want to check your safety for noise on a quiet morning while hunting? If it makes noise, you just made a metallic sound for no reason. I’d rather make the noise while I’m on an animal versus sending out a message to an unseen critter near by that a hunter is here.

I'm guessing you didn't read all his posts. He said the safety didn't seem right when he was at the range.

Only slightly stiff. Could have been the cold, damp day on the range . . . hard to know for sure.

Trigger will go back to manufacturer. We’ll see. Can’t replicate the problem again for those that have asked.

Glad you are concerned about your safety around me, hard to keep the backseat drivers happy as guys like you seem to know everything. Impressive. Paul B’s post summed up my feelings.

Cfran
Just curious.Did you remove the trigger already? Is it clean inside? Any dirt?oil? Solvent residue?

Do you have photographic evidence of removing it and checking? LOL Just kidding.

Have not had the chance to tear it down yet. Heading out of town shortly for a long hunting weekend but will do so next week.

The usual Campfire mountain-out-of-a-molehill-dogpile-meltdown.

Cfan,
Shilen makes an excellent trigger.
I have had and still have some and they have been very good.
Get it cleaned and checked.
And go hunting.

dave

You are an Idiot….

Pretty much with the usual idiots adding in their ex-purt-eze
as well

Well, I was going to be snarky and say Rem + AD go together like husband/wife... But I won't.


Just going by the above... You state: (1) You had this built 15+ years ago. (2) You have not touched this trigger.. (ergo) IMHO, you NEED to 'touch' this trigger because I would bet a hunsky that it's fouled/sticky and it's in sore need to cleaning/attention.. Any time an owner has a firearm with an enclosed trigger the owner better be payin' very VERY close attention to cleanliness..

Inspect, and post back with results please..

Don't be an idiot. That's not what he did.

How did it blow the hunting spot for the morning? You've never shot 2 deer from the same spot? I've done it a few minuets apart, and a few hours apart.

I shot a doe that was sniffing the gut pile of a buck I shot a few hours earlier.

Have done that multiple times with multiple rifles on stand.I keep it on safety when I see a potential target and it is within range I move it to Fire. Heck I have done it with a Remington 700 , Weatherby Mark V,Rugers,Sakos,Tikkas,Howas I know I left some others off the list. I thought it was safe to keep the rifle on safe especially when in a tree stand or box blind and then switch it to FIRE when ready to FIRE. I don't keep one in the chamber most times when hiking around.

Maybe I should take up Golf?

To the OP do what the sensible posters said to do and have the trigger inspected and cleaned.

I almost always get a feel for it when I get up in the stand. With 10 different rifles, each safety has it's own characteristics. Add in gloved hands, and there's a little different feel for getting it to snick off silently. As soon as I get settled in the stand, I practice snicking it off. From a safety standpoint, it's no different from doing it when you are getting ready to shoot a deer or when you are doing it at the range.

All that sitting in stands sounds, well, I'd get bored and start screwing around too. LOL All in good fun.

It's what you do when you get old and hunt on the east coast

I am a busy body. I'd much rather do Western style hunting.

I did this at approximately 6:25 am, was 15 minutes before legal shooting hour. At around 7 I had a 3 year old 8 pt dog a doe right past my tree. Saw 3 other bucks before 10. Yep, totally ruined the spot.

All done on my land, on over 300 acres and no hunters within 1/2 mile. But the peanut gallery has the answers. I’m getting a good chuckle out of it all in reality.

I don’t use my scope as way to identify game, point the barrel where it shouldn’t, pull the gun up to my elevated blind muzzle up. But God forbid, I checked the safety on a loaded chamber. Sure as hell am glad I did figure out the gun isn’t right. I’m thankful for that. Also had my daughter shoot an 11 pt with this gun 3 weeks prior during the youth season, she was hunting by herself. Thankful she didn’t have a malfunction.

cfran,

Your intelligence continues to shine. I posted the rules below for the youth season. They are to be accompanied by an adult at all times.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/deer/youth.html

You're lucky you didn't have a game warden all up in your azz asking you to prove you didn't shoot a deer before legal shooting time.

My daughter is 16 you moron with a hunter safety certificate, no adult supervision required. Unreal.

Another bright comment. Like I couldn’t defend what happened? Keep up the brilliance boys, I’m enjoying it.

Had a GW pull in the gate behind me one morning while I was peeing in front of my pickup. He started asking all kinds of questions. No idea why. All I'm saying is they can make it as difficult as they want. But you got everything figured out.

This is why a lot of people have stopped visiting and or commenting on topics here.

Anybody have a link to the other brands' discharge issues?

www.xnxx.com All the premature discharge you can possibly stomach.

Yes sir, you are right.