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ingwe Offline OP
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Question for anyone who has done it...

I'm thinking of a .17 Rem for shooting fur, particularly the smaller stuff like fox and bobcat.

Is it "fur friendly"?


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Yes, very.

Since the most commonly available bullets now are poly tipped 20 and 25 grainer you have to be more careful about staying off the shoulders or you may get a big hole. But shot through the ribs foxes will look like they went to sleep. If you can find any old stock 25 Hornady HPs snatch them up. They penetrate better with less chance of a splash IME.

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Great choice and I have killed a lot of fur with mine. If you're primarily looking for fox and bobcats, consider a 17 Hornet, I think that will be my next calling rifle.

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Originally Posted by Redleg172
Great choice and I have killed a lot of fur with mine. If you're primarily looking for fox and bobcats, consider a 17 Hornet, I think that will be my next calling rifle.



Tell me more...already got a .17 Rem on the way but its no problem to download it a tad to Hornet velocities...not much difference...

Worth the trouble? ( Thinking, as you said, fox and bobcats) Coyotes, not so much.

Also...bullet choice for fur?

Last edited by ingwe; 11/20/19.

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Mr Ingwe, I hope your weather is better than up here in Canucka Stan. Never thought of you asking anyone a question about guns & calibers, wow!!! My preference is for the 17 fireball, fast, flat, very little noise. Good around buildings. Only uses a max of 21gr powder. I my self would use it instead of the 17hornet, better point blank range so not having to shoot over or under. Kill wise a bit better, mm maybe? In a pinch ok for coyotes . My thoughts only, good luck. When ya kill a few varmints with it let us know your opinion, I've only shot two coyotes & some ground hogs, squirrels. Bill out. 🐾👣🇨🇦

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Originally Posted by GWPGUY
Mr Ingwe, I hope your weather is better than up here in Canucka Stan. Never thought of you asking anyone a question about guns & calibers, wow!!! My preference is for the 17 fireball, fast, flat, very little noise. Good around buildings. Only uses a max of 21gr powder. I my self would use it instead of the 17hornet, better point blank range so not having to shoot over or under. Kill wise a bit better, mm maybe? In a pinch ok for coyotes . My thoughts only, good luck. When ya kill a few varmints with it let us know your opinion, I've only shot two coyotes & some ground hogs, squirrels. Bill out. 🐾👣🇨🇦



Had more than one tell me about the Fireball...but again, I already have a .17 Rem on the way...however I can download it to Fireball levels ( again not much difference) and I didnt go with Fireball cause brass is harder to come by and Ive heard of frequent feeding problems. A lot of what this will be used for is shooting at night, and I dont need the extra fumbling in the dark ( the reason a .222 is my current favorite for night shooting..)

Its gonna be awhile before it is up and gunning varmints. Heading to texas in a couple weeks with the .222 and a .223 but the 17 won't be near ready for this trip. Hoping to try it on fox up here maybe later this winter....or load it to the gills for a coyote...

Last edited by ingwe; 11/20/19.

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I cannot speak to fox and bobcats with a 17 Remington but I killed a couple of truckloads of coyotes with a 17 Remington before I moved to Alaska. I have a new one in the works and it should be coming home soon. It's a Charles Daly left handed mini Mauser with a Pacnor barrel. It's at MPI getting a stock and cerakoted.

I shot most of my coyotes with the Hornady 25 grain HP. I used some of the Remington 25 grain bullets back in the early 90's but got inconsistent terminal performance. The Hornady bullets always worked flawlessly and the only time I ever experienced any fur damage was if I made a fringe hit. I don't ever recall a chest shot exiting but the effect was like shutting off the coyote's switch.

If I had to be limited to one fur rifle the rest of my life, it would be a 17 Remington.


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ingwe Offline OP
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Good to know! And good to hear!

Ive heard the same thing about those Hornady HPs


I'll look for them, and barring that I'll try their plastic tipped jobs!


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I can send you some 25hp's to try.....
It's nearly XMas.
Let me know when you return from the far south.


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Originally Posted by wageslave
I can send you some 25hp's to try.....
It's nearly XMas.
Let me know when you return from the far south.



Will do Dan, thanx!


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Let me know if your trip to TX brings you through OKC.


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Originally Posted by mart
I cannot speak to fox and bobcats with a 17 Remington but I killed a couple of truckloads of coyotes with a 17 Remington before I moved to Alaska. I have a new one in the works and it should be coming home soon. It's a Charles Daly left handed mini Mauser with a Pacnor barrel. It's at MPI getting a stock and cerakoted.

I shot most of my coyotes with the Hornady 25 grain HP. I used some of the Remington 25 grain bullets back in the early 90's but got inconsistent terminal performance. The Hornady bullets always worked flawlessly and the only time I ever experienced any fur damage was if I made a fringe hit. I don't ever recall a chest shot exiting but the effect was like shutting off the coyote's switch.

If I had to be limited to one fur rifle the rest of my life, it would be a 17 Remington.


I’ll second this, except my experience isn’t as many coyotes. Everything else pretty much the same.

For the lighter stuff “Fox & Cats “ the lighter plastic tips might be where it’s at or maybe just reduced velocity. There’s one way to find out.

The 17 Hornet might also make a good fur rifle for Fox & Cats.

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not 'might', IS.....

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The 17 Hornet would be the best choice for Fox and Bobcats. If using the 17 Rem. (like I do) then Chan Nagels 25gr, Reeds Ammo 25 or 26gr., or Black Hole Bullets in 25gr. Any of these 3 companies bullts will work. To chose one it would be the Nagels 25gr.
IMR4320 or IMR8208 powder with Rem 7 1/2 primers are excellent for the 17 Rem. The Rem 7 1/2 primers were developed for the 17Rem. IMR4320 is the go to powder.
I'm sure this is not new information for you.
The old Berger25gr. "Match" bullets was the go to bullet, but Berger quit making them and only do the 25gr. Varmint. I would not use the Varmint bullet although it may work ok on Fox.

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Tom, have fun in Texas!!

I've been shooting 17tn's for quite a long time. 17 Hornet, 17 Bee and 17 Remington,
Sorry to say I've had no experience with the Fireball, The Bee and Hornet have been very good on fox and cats. Fringe hits as usual make you get out the needle and thread.

I've had mixed results with the 17 Remington with 25 grain Hornady HP, V Max and Remington Hp's as far as being easy on soft critters. My experience on fox as almost exclusively been Kit fox so big difference between them and grey's or red's.

Nice thing is that USUALLY if you keep them in the ribs on fox and cats they are pretty eason on fur but you know as well as I do that broadside shots are always nice, they aren't the rule.

In my opinion you might just be on the right track with the slower .224's with tougher bullets. Are you finding that they are not as effective as you would like, too destructive, poor trajectory?

On the other hand, everyone should have several centerfire 17'ns.

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Originally Posted by K22
The 17 Hornet would be the best choice for Fox and Bobcats. If using the 17 Rem. (like I do) then Chan Nagels 25gr, Reeds Ammo 25 or 26gr., or Black Hole Bullets in 25gr. Any of these 3 companies bullts will work. To chose one it would be the Nagels 25gr.
IMR4320 or IMR8208 powder with Rem 7 1/2 primers are excellent for the 17 Rem. The Rem 7 1/2 primers were developed for the 17Rem. IMR4320 is the go to powder.
I'm sure this is not new information for you.
The old Berger25gr. "Match" bullets was the go to bullet, but Berger quit making them and only do the 25gr. Varmint. I would not use the Varmint bullet although it may work ok on Fox.


Thanks! Great info! I'll probably try it loaded down to FB levels with maybe a 20 grainer..I dont know yet, but I like screwing with this stuff, so I have something new to play with.


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Over the year I've had several Rem 700BDL's chambered in .17 Remington all of which have accounted for 100's of Foxes. I've only ever used one load - 25gn Hornady HP and 23.7gns Varget for 3950fps (out of my current rifle) At that velocity pelt damage on body shots only occurs about 5% of the time.




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Originally Posted by 6MMWASP
Tom, have fun in Texas!!

I've been shooting 17tn's for quite a long time. 17 Hornet, 17 Bee and 17 Remington,
Sorry to say I've had no experience with the Fireball, The Bee and Hornet have been very good on fox and cats. Fringe hits as usual make you get out the needle and thread.

I've had mixed results with the 17 Remington with 25 grain Hornady HP, V Max and Remington Hp's as far as being easy on soft critters. My experience on fox as almost exclusively been Kit fox so big difference between them and grey's or red's.

Nice thing is that USUALLY if you keep them in the ribs on fox and cats they are pretty eason on fur but you know as well as I do that broadside shots are always nice, they aren't the rule.

In my opinion you might just be on the right track with the slower .224's with tougher bullets. Are you finding that they are not as effective as you would like, too destructive, poor trajectory?

On the other hand, everyone should have several centerfire 17'ns.






More good info! Thanks guys.



And in answer to your question on slower .224s yes, Im very happy with the results ( which makes no sense with me trying new to me stuff like the .17 Rem...but Im a rifle whore....) Anyway, Ive found a well constructed bullet going out the muzzle at the magic number of 2600fps or even a touch less is the ticket. Most of my predator hunting is at night, and the longest shot I can remember taking was maybe 150 yards, so trajectory really isn't a factor . The concept is effective and easy on the fur. Best results so far are with 60 grain NBTs and 55 gr. Speer Gold dots. Also had good luck with basic Hornady 50 and 55 Gr. Soft points at those speeds. Had one coyote take a gold dot smack in the chest last year and he took off..I was wondering WTF? when he decided to crumple up about forty yards away...Otherwise I dont think Ive had any critters go for than a few feet.. Fur damage minimal at worst, and in many cases I had to search for the entrance and exits...not readily apparent.


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Originally Posted by dingo

Over the year I've had several Rem 700BDL's chambered in .17 Remington all of which have accounted for 100's of Foxes. I've only ever used one load - 25gn Hornady HP and 23.7gns Varget for 3950fps (out of my current rifle) At that velocity pelt damage on body shots only occurs about 5% of the time.




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Excellent! Thanks for that! I am mainly shooting grey fox here in the states, smaller than your reds so I might lighten the load a tad...we shall see..



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Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Redleg172
Great choice and I have killed a lot of fur with mine. If you're primarily looking for fox and bobcats, consider a 17 Hornet, I think that will be my next calling rifle.



Tell me more...already got a .17 Rem on the way but its no problem to download it a tad to Hornet velocities...not much difference...

Worth the trouble? ( Thinking, as you said, fox and bobcats) Coyotes, not so much.

Also...bullet choice for fur?

What rifle did you order?


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Ken..Darrik made me an offer I couldnt refuse on an LVSF....

The fleshy is weak...


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Ok,I was hoping that you may have bought a Sako .17 Rem. You know,to shed the "rifle slut" moniker.

But,a LVSF is a step in the right direction,a small step,but a step nonetheless.


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Problem with the 17’s is the good 25 grainers are being discontinued. It’s almost time to rebarrel my 17 Rem and might end up with a 20. Hate to do it, but I don’t have much use for a 20 grain, 17 cal varmint bullet.

I’m sitting on Nagels, Berger Match Target, Hornady 25 HP’s...just not enough to keep me interested. Sucks! If Hornady would have kept the 25 HP’s I’d keep trucking with the 17.

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there's so many of the Hornady 25's in the market that they will be available for a long time to come. Once a guy can't walk into a store and find them on a shelf, it'll still be years after that and a guy will still be able to find some from others who over stocked up.


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I found a box of 25gr Hornady HPs on the shelf at Cabelas a couple weeks ago. They only had the one but they have one less now.

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Originally Posted by Dooger
Problem with the 17’s is the good 25 grainers are being discontinued. It’s almost time to rebarrel my 17 Rem and might end up with a 20. Hate to do it, but I don’t have much use for a 20 grain, 17 cal varmint bullet.

I’m sitting on Nagels, Berger Match Target, Hornady 25 HP’s...just not enough to keep me interested. Sucks! If Hornady would have kept the 25 HP’s I’d keep trucking with the 17.


You found the Hornady's better than the Nagel, Berger Match, Blackhole, and Reeds?

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Still a lot of the Hornady 25 grain HP bullets on gunbroker for anybody interested.


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Good stuff guys... Tag for later.

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OK guys..just got back from some predator calling in Texas with the .17 Rem I loaded Hornady 20 grainers at a starting load of 3650 fps, shot 15 fox and a bobcat and a couple coons with it...got two exits, and they weren't awful. Super fur friendly and definitely my new favorite calling rifle! Hers a triple from one stand...

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Awesome sir. The 17 Remington is the best of them all.


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Fantastic Ingwe.
The 17Rem has always been a favorite for me. That love affair started back in 71 and she hasn't left me yet.
You are going to have a blast with that caliber.

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Pretty sure I know then answer but how is it for DRT on coyotes?


With 25 grain Hornady HP bullets.

Last edited by 10gaugemag; 12/22/19.

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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Pretty sure I know then answer but how is it for DRT on coyotes?


With 25 grain Hornady HP bullets.


I dunno..havent used it yet, but Im assured by those who have that it is a sure killer, and fur friendly...


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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Pretty sure I know then answer but how is it for DRT on coyotes?


With 25 grain Hornady HP bullets.

Maybe a fluke but the last two I’ve shot in the last two days have both been flopping, spinning runners. Behind the shoulder shots, and they didn’t go far but it wasn’t the electrocuted results I’m used to seeing.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Pretty sure I know then answer but how is it for DRT on coyotes?


With 25 grain Hornady HP bullets.

Maybe a fluke but the last two I’ve shot in the last two days have both been flopping, spinning runners. Behind the shoulder shots, and they didn’t go far but it wasn’t the electrocuted results I’m used to seeing.


Interesting...As I said, I haven't done it on coyotes...so you got me there. I get 'electrocuted' results on them with a .22-250.....


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I normally have too with the 17, like I said maybe they were flukes. It is certainly fur friendly.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
I normally have too with the 17, like I said maybe they were flukes. It is certainly fur friendly.


Yeah..I was VERY impressed...if it doesn't exit a grey fox...its a safe bet!


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Interesting.

You just used a .17 Hornet....


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Interesting.

You just used a .17 Hornet....



Yeah...pretty much! Trouble is no one makes a .17 Hornet in a Model 700 remington,( my preferred "platform") and no one offered me a screaming deal on one! Sooooo I went to the loading bench and created one! laugh


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I never had 20 Vmaxes exit Reds even at warp speeds. Just FYI. Mine likes CFE223 under 20s and 25s, great accuracy and speed, and meters like water.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
I never had 20 Vmaxes exit Reds even at warp speeds. Just FYI. Mine likes CFE223 under 20s and 25s, great accuracy and speed, and meters like water.


Good to know...cause starting load on CFE223 is 4200 fps+ and I didnt want to go that fast, but I love that powder in a couple others!


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Originally Posted by TheKid
I never had 20 Vmaxes exit Reds even at warp speeds. Just FYI. Mine likes CFE223 under 20s and 25s, great accuracy and speed, and meters like water.



That's good information Kid. That should work for Grey's then. Very few to no Reds around here anymore, but lots of Greys and Coyotes of course.

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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Pretty sure I know then answer but how is it for DRT on coyotes?


With 25 grain Hornady HP bullets.



Have much more consistency with the old Berger Match 25's and Chan Nagel's 25's on Coyote. The Hornady's work but not as consistent as the others.

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I love my .17s. They have been very dependable on fox and cats. Coyotes can be a question on some occasions. I have always been able to retrieve them, but some of the bigger dogs have run a ways on occasion, especially if I shot them on the shoulder instead of behind it.
I went over to the 204, simply because there were more factory load options out there. The 32 grain loads and lighter dont seem much different from my 17 loads. The 40's or a fringe hit look a lot like a 22-250 got into them though.
If you have an accurate 17, keep it and enjoy it!

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Well, this is belated, but for what it’s worth I hunted Reynard passionately in the 80’s, starting with the 243 (Way too explosive), moving steadily down through the 22’s (still too destructive for fur) to the 222 (not flat enough for the barren fields of Iowa).

When I got to the 17 Remington, I found it about the best choice for fox to all ranges here and preservative of fur for the most part. Used Remington 25-gr factory loads. Chrono’ed 3700 FPS out of the petite Kimber model 84 — seemed just right.

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I’ve shot a dozen or so coyotes with the 20vmax. It was left over pdog ammo and pushed wide open with cfe. They put terrible entrance wounds on coyotes and would blow up on the fur. I’d often have to shoot them again to anchor them. I switched to the 25vmax and it was a much better killer. Shot a few bobcats with it and it poked a little hole going in and they’ve all stayed inside the cats. First one I called in was about 40 yards away broadside.... I figured it was going to blow him to pieces but I was pleasantly surprised.

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Originally Posted by Benbo
I switched to the 25vmax and it was a much better killer. Shot a few bobcats with it and it poked a little hole going in and they’ve all stayed inside the cats. First one I called in was about 40 yards away broadside.... I figured it was going to blow him to pieces but I was pleasantly surprised.




Good to know as they are readily available.


I managed to scrounge up a few hundred 25 gr, Hornady HP ( now discontinued) cause they came highly recommended for fur. If not, I'll go to the 25 Vmax.


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Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd

Well, this is belated, but for what it’s worth I hunted Reynard passionately in the 80’s, starting with the 243 (Way too explosive), moving steadily down through the 22’s (still too destructive for fur) to the 222 (not flat enough for the barren fields of Iowa).

When I got to the 17 Remington, I found it about the best choice for fox to all ranges here and preservative of fur for the most part. Used Remington 25-gr factory loads. Chrono’ed 3700 FPS out of the petite Kimber model 84 — seemed just right.




Same bullet I used back in the early 70's and like George said, it worked pretty darn good.

A Kimber 84 in 17 Rem.! That had to be an awesome setup.

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I think a Remington Model Seven in 17 REM would be a cool predator rifle.

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Originally Posted by Jericho
I think a Remington Model Seven in 17 REM would be a cool predator rifle.


I's certainly second that suggestion....


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Originally Posted by Jericho
I think a Remington Model Seven in 17 REM would be a cool predator rifle.



I bought one when they first came out. Nice setup except I wished the barrel had been 20" instead of its 18". I sold it and replaced it with this one.


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i i use kinder gold, 29 grain from the wood chuck den and a stout load of varget out of my sako.

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Originally Posted by roninflag
i i use kinder gold, 29 grain from the wood chuck den and a stout load of varget out of my sako.

Is the Wood chuck den still in operation?


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Originally Posted by Dooger
Problem with the 17’s is the good 25 grainers are being discontinued. It’s almost time to rebarrel my 17 Rem and might end up with a 20. Hate to do it, but I don’t have much use for a 20 grain, 17 cal varmint bullet.

I’m sitting on Nagels, Berger Match Target, Hornady 25 HP’s...just not enough to keep me interested. Sucks! If Hornady would have kept the 25 HP’s I’d keep trucking with the 17.

All of these (and more, this was the last trip to the buyer that year) were killed with the 17 Remington shooting the Berger Varmint bullets. I skin and stretch my own so I see every shot, and there is no stink on that bullet IMO. I've got a couple thousand of the Hornadys squirreled away, but until Burger quits making this bullet I'm going to keep shooting them. Everyone bitches about the price of the Bergers, but they come 200/box. If I were shooting ground squirrels or something I might think differently, but for fur hunting? They are worth every penny.
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Originally Posted by bbassi

All of these (and more, this was the last trip to the buyer that year) were killed with the 17 Remington shooting the Berger Varmint bullets. I skin and stretch my own so I see every shot, and there is no stink on that bullet IMO. I've got a couple thousand of the Hornadys squirreled away, but until Burger quits making this bullet I'm going to keep shooting them. Everyone bitches about the price of the Bergers, but they come 200/box. If I were shooting ground squirrels or something I might think differently, but for fur hunting? They are worth every penny.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]




OK, this is what I like to see!

Ive got a bunch of Hornady 25 HPs squirreled away as well...but my main question to you is are you using the Berger 20 grainers or do you have some of their 25s stashed away and are using those?

And as long as we are at it, what load do you like?


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I'm using the 25 gr Berger Varmint HPs, part 70308? It's whatever one they still make. Everyone says the discontinued match 25 gr were the best, but these work just fine for me. I'm pushing them around 3900fps under 24gr of IMR 4320 from a 24inch barrel. I hunt almost exclusively at night with thermal so my shots are almost always under 200. Most of the fox are inside 75. I almost never get any kind of exit on the fox and if I do it's tiny shrapnel, not a blow out.


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Originally Posted by bbassi
I'm using the 25 gr Berger Varmint HPs, part 70308? It's whatever one they still make. Everyone says the discontinued match 25 gr were the best, but these work just fine for me. I'm pushing them around 3900fps under 24gr of IMR 4320 from a 24inch barrel. I hunt almost exclusively at night with thermal so my shots are almost always under 200. Most of the fox are inside 75. I almost never get any kind of exit on the fox and if I do it's tiny shrapnel, not a blow out.



Is 24 gr, where you decided to stop or was that your most accurate load? I run the same powder behind a 25gr. but I'm at 24.6gr. I see 4320 is now discontinued.

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Originally Posted by bbassi
I'm using the 25 gr Berger Varmint HPs, part 70308? It's whatever one they still make. Everyone says the discontinued match 25 gr were the best, but these work just fine for me. I'm pushing them around 3900fps under 24gr of IMR 4320 from a 24inch barrel. I hunt almost exclusively at night with thermal so my shots are almost always under 200. Most of the fox are inside 75. I almost never get any kind of exit on the fox and if I do it's tiny shrapnel, not a blow out.



Excellent! Thank you. Most of my calling is at night as well, shots under 150 yards.....fox, as you said, are usually under 75 yards.

I will check that bullet out!


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Awesome picture bassi, thank you for sharing

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I shot a 17 Remington with the 25 gr Hornady HP and I blew holes as big as your fist in them. I may have not been shooting the most fur friendly bullet out there, but back in the early to late 90's there were not many bullets to pick from in a 17 caliber.


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