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I received this message from Fish Alaska. What do you Alaska guys think about the issue?

http://www.americansalmonforest.org/take-action.html

America's Salmon Forest

KC


Wind in my hair, Sun on my face, I gazed at the wide open spaces, And I was at home.





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Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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rost:

For as long as I can remember, I have been a proponent of conservation (wise use) rather than preservation (no use). But clear cutting just seems to go too far. All over the states of Washington and Oregon there are clear cuts on private land owned by the big lumber companies. Ugly scars that are cleverly hidden just over the ridge, so that most people don't know that they exist.

My state of Colorado seems to be less eager to allow clear cuts. Yes there is an occasional clear cut but they are small, isolated and intended to create a meadow where none existied before. Most of the logging in Colorado is selective cutting which takes only the oldest trees and allows younger trees to thrive. Fire mitigation is also a part of the selective cutting here.

I hope that the Tongas and Chugas don't suffer the fate of Washington and Oregon.



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All over the states of Washington and Oregon, there are huge forested areas that were once clear cuts.

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All I can say is there is no food for the animals we desire in a forest.

Nature rebounds so easily.

Personally I'd worry much more about not allowing road/trail access after a cutting than the cutting itself.

Watching em roller chop large sections for grouse habitat I'm just always amazed how quickly nature revives herself.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


Shut the [bleep] up.

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Oregon has tree farms, mono-culture, everywhere there used to be a clearcut. Nothing grows on the ground in the shade of a tree farm.


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I have been hearing saws and trees hitting the ground all hunting season. Lots of cutting going on right now.

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Originally Posted by WDH
Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


Shut the [bleep] up.




boy howdy. Texan go home


Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"

Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."

MOLON LABE





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Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


I’ll never understand why people think like this. Alaska is the size of 4 western states. If you want to hike where there are no people just close your eyes and stick your finger on a map and go for it. But to say that people shouldn’t be able to use atv’s to access hundreds of sq miles of land because you don’t like atv’s blows my mind. Just don’t hike at trailheads that allow access to atv’s and you’ll never hear them. Hunting animals that are huge and saying that if you can’t backpack it out you aren’t a hunter is just [bleep] stupid. Especially when the animal will go bad or get eaten by predators before you can complete the job.

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Access isn’t as tough to find here as Texas (95% private). It’s not hard to find area where you won’t bump into those ATV guys if you don’t want to bump into them. I don’t begrudge them for recreating how they wish to recreate.

To the OP- Those cuts recover faster than you think and properly cut they don’t bother those streams. I believe (obviously could be wrong) the stream issue came up in the past when the corporations cut all the way to the water.....I don’t believe that is kosher anymore.

Last edited by AKduck; 11/19/19.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub


I’ll never understand why people think like this. Alaska is the size of 4 western states. If you want to hike where there are no people just close your eyes and stick your finger on a map and go for it. But to say that people shouldn’t be able to use atv’s to access hundreds of sq miles of land because you don’t like atv’s blows my mind. Just don’t hike at trailheads that allow access to atv’s and you’ll never hear them. Hunting animals that are huge and saying that if you can’t backpack it out you aren’t a hunter is just [bleep] stupid. Especially when the animal will go bad or get eaten by predators before you can complete the job.



Death by a thousand cuts.......that's what is happening to our public lands.

Logging if done properly can benefit more than hurt--but it is NEVER all or nothing. Problem is, rarely does the federal agencies require it be done properly. And it may not be cost effective for the private firm buying the timber sale if required to do it properly.

When forests grow back from logging--even select cuts--they grow back differently. Is that better or worse? Often we don't know because these things play out over centuries or millenniums.

The single biggest impact of logging?--the roads that are left when the loggers leave. Logging is a temporary impact, constant use of roads is permanent.

Not to mention even today most timber sales on federal lands are break even at best for the taxpayer, more often than not the taxpayer loses money. Nothing like the huge losses of the timber program during the Reagan/Watt/Hodel era, whose policies engendered such a backlash it effectively ended logging for large and mid size timber sales in the lower 48.


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Biggest problem I see here? Well meaning but ignorant people from everywhere but Southeastern, telling the people in Southeastern how to manage their homeland. That includes the [bleep] Sierra Club and US Forest Service especially. On the Pacific Coast, including the Cascades, Sierras, Coast range, together they have ruined forest, soil stabilization, fisheries, diverse plant and animal species, and done more damage with the catastrophic fuel loads than nature EVER did. An inconvenient statistical fact is, clearcutting in areas that receive upwards of 50 inches of rain annually, enhances animal habitat and diversity of plant life. Good luck Alaskans, the life sciences professors that taught the global climate hoax are the ones now guiding policy in government and the Sierra Club, and the radical environmentalists have got their stooges in the 9th Circuit to enforce it.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Also, since you are going to advise Alaskans on how to manage their state...you may want to bone up on the names of the forests of concern. Tongass and Chugach will give your opinion more weight.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Originally Posted by watch4bear
Originally Posted by WDH
Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip

Shut the [bleep] up.

boy howdy. Texan go home

I'd much rather have Jeff here than WaddaDickHead, if she actually is a resident.


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Originally Posted by ironbender

I'd much rather hold hands withJeff here and look at diick pics



Is ironbender your grinder profile name? Hahahahaha. Lay that iron to Jeff!

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If you look at the final approved plan, specific to the project, there’s been hearing after hearing, public input after public input and court case after court case. These logging projects have been reduced and reduced, studied and studied again.....to death. There’s a mixture of clear cutting in areas deemed best for clear cutting, selective logging in other portions, heli-logging and thinning in other areas. It’s also stipulated that the wood (all or a substantial portion) had to be milled locally.

Let it rot away or harvest a renewable resource? Logging can hopefully be a viable option for the local communities once again. Logging, when done responsibly, can be a long term, self-sustaining economic driver in areas with little economy. 👍


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Originally Posted by AKduck
Access isn’t as tough to find here as Texas (95% private). It’s not hard to find area where you won’t bump into those ATV guys if you don’t want to bump into them. I don’t begrudge them for recreating how they wish to recreate.

To the OP- Those cuts recover faster than you think and properly cut they don’t bother those streams. I believe (obviously could be wrong) the stream issue came up in the past when the corporations cut all the way to the water.....I don’t believe that is kosher anymore.

This is so much more complicated than a simple Hell Yes!!! or No Way!

And the Tongass and the Chugach are not even on the same planet in terms of logging prospects. In SE clearcuts work on paper and heal fairly fast. The wide range of trees popping up at their own speeds will do all sorts of things to accelerate healing (intentionally using terms designed to not trigger) and maximize returns.

The lack of diversity in the vast majority of the Chugach along with the far slower growth rates make it a horrible choice for clear cutting. Kodiak (Afognak) is an even worse example of truly bad clear cuts. And they are returning next to nothing on the timber.

I am 100% for logging, but there are too many places that have been hammered by irresponsible logging here.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


Really? less than 3,000 miles of main roads in all of AK... By far the biggest state and and about #45 on the list of total roads and you want to squeeze off the whole frigging state to protect your ears? After bringing a POS airboat to AK? You do realize that strapping that thing to your ass makes you a FAR bigger noise-maker than any regular ATV, no? My personal experiences with airboats leaves me thinking you have some serious misconceptions of how Alaskans think about noise. I am just shaking my head at your comments...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by cwh2
All over the states of Washington and Oregon, there are huge forested areas that were once clear cuts.

True, but the farther north the clearcuts moved they always pointed to the areas south and how well and quickly they reprodded. And at each turn things slowed.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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