Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 264 mag Rel 33 & Banes 120gr TSX

Three shots
Finally tried some Rel 33 today with the Barnes 120gr TSX. A local guy told me he got great accuracy with the TSX seated .010 off the lands of his rifle . So thought I would give it a try.. Starting out light I worked up to 75gr of Rel 33. Bullet seated no more than .015 off the lands. The rifle is a Win 70 action with a new Douglas stainless 24" # 2 contour at .600 at the muzzle. 1/8 twist. Caldwell chrono. You can see my three shot group at 100. Was totally repeatable. Temp was 51dg. My Bench is set up under my front deck in the shade. Four shots over the chrono gave:3457
3454
3456
3455. FPS
When chronoing I fired two shots, allowed barrel to cool completely then fired two more. Felt keeping the barrel cool was more representative of firing a cold barrel in the field at game..

And this out of a 24" Bbl. The load showed no signs of the slightest pressure. Mostly neck size the three cases used. Could easily go another grain. Primer pockets stayed tight through out the work up. This is a new 8lb keg of Rel 33 I just received a couple weeks back .OAL length is 3.265. Sighted 1.5 + at 100. My 235 yd target was a dead on hold with a solid thunk back. Same results at my 522yd target. Scope is a Burris 4.5x14. Three shots fired, barrel allowed to cool completely between groups.

You cab see where the bullet is seated. This is a new case 2.500 long. The first bullet grove is exposed plus a little.
Forgot to mention I'm at 7630' elevation so loads shoot flatter than SEA LEVEL.. When chronoing the load I shot two shots from a cold barrel .. Allowed barrel to cool completely & shot two more.

Seat it deeper and that 3rd one might come in. I hate the 2 and one

Aren't those velocities 150-200+ fps faster than Max Barnes velocities? Sounds high to me.

I don't see Barnes showing loads with Rel 33 for the 264 mag. My loads match up with a friends loads & results in his 264 mag. Loads were worked up slowly & mostly only neck sizing was needed.. My load of 75grs of Rel 33 showed not the slightest sign of over pressure. All primer pockets remained tight.

Something doesn't seem to compute:

I stand by my results with my chronograph with my loads & my rifle. I can't understand the data you have displayed with my results. I have rechecked my chronograph shooting my 223, 260 Rem, 6.5-06 & 7mag. All velocities are right on the money. Have also worked up these Rel 33 in a Ruger Hawkeye with a 24" bbl. with similar results as my rifle. Wish you were here so I/we could see the results at the same time. The drop on my 500 yd target corresponds to the velocity level I stated.

I've seen Quickload be off before, but 7 grains for a case this size is an awful lot. I'm not claiming to understand the source of the variance, but something seems really strange.....

I checked the QL data for RL-33 against the Alliant Powders data for the 7mm STW and 300 Bee and the data checks out.

Does your rifle have an undersized chamber and short throat?

Do you also have 120gr .277 barnes bullets on the shelf? That about what is should take to get those pressures and velocities with 75gr of RL-33. In a .264 Winchester Magnum.

3,450 is 26 Nosler speed with the 120 TTSX. It’ll push them faster but that’s where the accuracy is.

IMO, that’s a tad sporty for the 264.

DF

Consider the different powder , bullets , primers, & brass lots . Also how many rounds have been put down the listed test bbl date.100, 1000, or possibly more. . This info not listed . My Bbl is new with barely 50 rounds thru it. . My powder lot may be faster burning than the powder in the. test data as I maxed out at 75grs not 80 as listed in the test data. . Are the bullets in the test data seated .050 , .060 off the lands? Or where. My loads are .015 off. In order to make a accurate comparison everything must be exactly the same. As far as 3450 FPS my older 26" Bbl 264 has been doing that for years using VV 24N41 powder.

Don't ya think, same bullet, same speed, the smaller capacity case will have to be pushing more pressure than the larger capacity case?

DF

Here is a load work up I did today with my Win 70 EW 264 26" Bbl. Using 74.5 grs ( 1/2 gr less than my 24" Bbl ) & the Barnes 120gr TSX.3459 fps. This is the third 264 mag I used this new Rel 33 in & all have had the same result. All three rifles can't be wrong. It appears to me this lot of Rell 33 is definitely on the fast side. Also show the fired primer from this load. Well rounded corners. Completely different from the info "antelope " gave. His info was correct for the lot of powder used in their test. Experienced reloaders know when you change powder lots you need to work up your loads again.

Hesp,

As I suggested, it could be a multivariate difference. It does seem your lot of powder is on the fast side. Additionally, it's my impression (but I don't have enough data to know for sure) that Barnes bullets are more sensitive to changes in pressure do to variance in the distance from the lands.

Regardless, I suspect that load would flat out some a Colorado Mulie.

While near the upper limit of the performance window, Hesp's results seem entirely plausible to me.

My .264WM shows first signs of pressure at 74.0gn of RL33, and that is being conservative, i.e. looking for visible pressure signs with a jewelers loupe. This with a factory barrel, but not a Barnes bullet like Hesp is using, so velocities don't correlate.

Different air temperatures, different powder lot, different barrel (bore surface, twist), different chamber, especially a custom chamber, could all "stack" up to easily digest another grain of powder w/o pressure issue.

Don't under estimate the .264WM. This classic, and always great cartridge is like a new and even better cartridge with modern powders and modern bullets.

JMHO

You could say that for a number of rounds.

Makes reloading a new adventure. It's not your grandfather's reloading world...

DF

I always knew the importance of working up with a new powder lot. I tend to buy my powder in 8 lb jugs just to be able to avoid changes in powder lot burn rate. There are many who buy only 1 lb at a time because of cost. If a new reloader had bought a new lot of what ever powder & loaded up a max load the results could be disastrous. I thank all of you for your informative input. It benefits us all.

Just another note on powder : I have been using VV 24N41 for years giving me out standing performance in the 264 mag. I thought it had been discontinued but see that " Powder Valley " is carrying it @ $209 ( $ 26.12 a lb ) for an 8 lb jug. It is listed at just a tick slower burning rate than N 570 . As I said it has given me dependable high velocities with the 264 for years. Should also be a great powder for those shooting the 26 Nosler.

Hesp is making me want to try VV 24N41. I've posted this before, but my .264WM likes N570.

That n570 is a really coarse stick powder; I've never seen anything quite like it. It won't drop thru my Uniflow, stacks up. I have to removed the drop tube, drop a load in my powder scale, tweak the load, then funnel into a case.

DF

Yes, N570 is not the easiest to work with. Expensive, too. I meter powder with a Chargemaster Lite, and that seems to work pretty good. I get a little more speed, and tighter groups with it, so it is worth the extra effort.

VV 24N41 is also a very course powder. Since I have been weighting my powder out in my powder scale one by one for so many years it never bothered me. I may load a max of 50 rounds at a time so no big deal to me. Only time I use a powder drop is for some hand gun loads where I may load 200 or more rounds at a time.