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form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

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Form, I always appreciate your input on this forum.


Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

Phucqk!


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--- Kid Rock 2022


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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

Phucqk!


whistle...

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Has anyone tried the 1-6x version yet?

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Originally Posted by qotsarock
Congrats on the successful hunts. Curious whether you've used the 1-6x24 at all, or seen it in use?



I have not. When the mil/mil FFP is available I’m sure I’ll see them used a bunch.

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

GFY


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Thanks Formidilosus. Appreciate the reply and all your contributions to the forum.

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Originally Posted by Formidilosus




I’ve read every post in this thread. Only one of us seems to have comprehension problems.





Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

I said FFP does have a very definite place in higher power optics. 18x is really beyond the power I want my long range "hunting" optics to be. my main long range hunting scopes are NXS 3.5-15x scopes. for a well rested up shot where I am going to move the turret, IE a prone shot off a pack, bipod or some other steady rest. I see no reason I wouldn't be on 15x max power, because I am not.
I simply go prone, rest the gun, find the animal, (remember my scope is on the lowest power while stalking, walking, riding, whatever. ) crank the scope to max. power, adjust the turret, SHOOT. pretty simple.



How is it that you can not grasp “SPOTTING IMPACTS and SPLASH”? It is rare to see ones own impact with 15x on a sub 10lb rifle from field positions. Same for 12x, and really 9x. Every single person misses if they do much killing off a greenfield. Everyone. The only thing worse than a miss, is not seeing the miss, understanding why you missed, and correcting immediately.



Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

however even in most western hunting situations its very very common for the shots to not be long range, these situations also typically mean low light, early morning, last light etc. in which case the reticle must work well on low power in poor light. Trading that ability for subtensions that match at every power is not worth giving up, point and shoot low light abilty or hindering it.



I kill things every singe year with both SFP and FFP scopes at near muzzle contact to past 1,200 meters in everything from Alabama swamps to 12,000 foot mountains, and in all lighting conditions. Do you?

A WELL designed FFP is perfectly usable from low and high powers. Just because most are not well designed, does not mean SFP is the answer.





Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

Remember this isn't shooting 20# rifles off fake barricades at long range targets that may be moving.



Who are you speaking to with this quote? I don’t talk about things I’ve never used, that’s you.


From memory, I’ve killed or been on the spotting scope for animals being killed since October at 801, 606, 576, 342, 321, 317, 300, 289, 278, 242, 189, 189, 186, 176, 169, 70’ish, and 40’ish yards. Probably missing a few as well. The heaiviet rifle used has been 9.2lbs. Scopes were fixed 6’s, 3-9x’s, 2.5-10x, 3-12x, and 3-18x. The largest cartridge used so far is a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Wind has had to be held on the shots at- 801, 606, 321, 317, 300, 289, 242, 189, 186, 176, and 169. The only time a variable scope was on the highest power was the 2.5-10x at 317, 300, and 242 yards. The shooter wished for a FFP for each shot die to bigger FOV on lower power, however he still meeded to hold wind. He will be switching to a FFP directly.


Your opinion would carry more weight if you did actual testing at real public playgrounds over ranges verified by tape measure. No serious evaluation could be done at that erratic series of ranges. Real science and engineering is done with round numbers. Care must be made to ensure the math is as easy and straightforward as possible. This prevents errors. I’ll bet you don’t even use test fixtures.

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Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

GFY

are you have a bad day? adding a lot to the conversation huh? you're on block now.

IC B3

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

GFY

are you have a bad day? adding a lot to the conversation huh? you're on block now.

Phucqk!


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
form we disagree, you worry too much its ok, I am glad you are having fun and experiencing hunting success.

GFY

are you have a bad day? adding a lot to the conversation huh? you're on block now.

I will have to get the secret copy then of your playground rusty C-clamp testing clips,such a shame


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Field of view matters WAY more than magnification, and being able to gather as much information as possible before, during, and after the shot is critical.

+1

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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
It is rare to see ones own impact with 15x on a sub 10lb rifle from field positions. Same for 12x, and really 9x. Every single person misses if they do much killing off a greenfield. Everyone. The only thing worse than a miss, is not seeing the miss, understanding why you missed, and correcting immediately.

A WELL designed FFP is perfectly usable from low and high powers. Just because most are not well designed, does not mean SFP is the answer.

BIG +1

As usual, Form brings practicality and facts gained through experience to the discussion.

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Formidilous,

You, my friend, are one Hell of a writer! I feel like I, or someone, should be paying for an analysis like this.

Thank you,


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Formidilosus
It is rare to see ones own impact with 15x on a sub 10lb rifle from field positions. Same for 12x, and really 9x. Every single person misses if they do much killing off a greenfield. Everyone. The only thing worse than a miss, is not seeing the miss, understanding why you missed, and correcting immediately.

A WELL designed FFP is perfectly usable from low and high powers. Just because most are not well designed, does not mean SFP is the answer.

BIG +1

As usual, Form brings practicality and facts gained through experience to the discussion.


Funny how that works....

Hey! But there was that one coyote!

Thanks for another no bullschit review Form. When I saw these being released I immediately jumped on board as I was in the market for another 14-18x scope. After talking to the tech at Meopta USA getting the subtension values and reticle options I was turned off. I’m personally not a fan of the donuts for the simple to grasp issues you already talked about. The tech took the reticle conversation well and said he’d pass the feedback along. Hopefully they’ll come out with some updated, more useful reticles for our style of shooting.

Last edited by joshf303; 11/19/19.
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Originally Posted by prm
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Good stuff...

FFP, Mil....

Do we want .1 tick marks along the cross hairs, left and right? Both up and down?



0.05 mil just between SWFA 10 and 12X cross hairs....


Not to distract from the OPs fine work, but to answer you, I’m pretty simple. Same scales as the 3-9 or 6x42, just arranged like this:

[Linked Image]

So, take a SWFA 3-9x42, cap the windage, scale down el knob if possible, and use this reticle. That gets me from dark timber to as far as I’ll ever shoot at a critter. It’s simple, very capable, no illumination necessary, and will center quickly on a snap shot. I can dream...




I could definitely use and like that reticle.

John


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Jeepers. I'm thinking about adding a pound to my Tikka now with that stock/chassis... Dammit! wink Even though it is in 260 Rem...

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Originally Posted by pointer
Jeepers. I'm thinking about adding a pound to my Tikka now with that stock/chassis... Dammit! wink Even though it is in 260 Rem...



I’ve used the KRG Bravo a bunch on heavy rifles. A friend wanted to put a lite weight rifle in one a year or so ago. I poo pood the idea for some reason, probably because it would add a pound. Fast forward to a couple months ago, and I tried an X-Ray on the T3 Lite for better tracking during recoil, and zero retention. The X-Ray wasn’t the right answer for a general purpose hunting rifle though the idea had merit. Swapped butts on the X-Ray and Bravo. That was the answer.

Though the Bravo adds a pound over the factory stock, it greatly improves spotting your own impacts due to straightline recoil, vertical grip improves stability and control in all positions, and the chassis is more stable for zero retention. It also looks like one can modify the chassis component to drop some ounces.

Since no one wants to make a correctly designed stock for T3’s (or most others), the Bravo is a great option even for lighter weight rifles. Add a WTO Switchlug, and one can bond the action to the chassis for 100% zero retention in any use.

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Thanks for the thread and this review, exactly what I was looking for to answer a bunch of questions.

I’ve been considering FFP for this exact magnification with the exact reticle except 56mm objective (due to the nature of where I hunt and shoot, I’d rather have a little extra low light availability on the higher magnification).

I have been planning on a tikka t3x stainless varmint 22-250 with a KRG bravo chassis as a gun I can legally take in the woods in my area to practice medium range shooting with (I am not allowed anything bigger than a .22 calibre for coyote in Newfoundland). Thanks for answering any Tikka heavy barrel with KRG bravo chassis questions I may have had.

I’ve been planning on shooting using high power on paper, and medium to lower power for coyote. I was afraid of using FFP for this due to reticles disappearing at lower power. Nice to know this one works well enough. I’m only planning on shooting 300-350 yards for the most part and maybe trying upwards of 500 the odd time (knowing I may be restricted by the tikka 22-250 1:14 twist rate).

You have hit all the things I am concerned about on the scope:

- brightness
- reticle working on lower powers
- reliable and tough
- easy to get behind with good eyebox
- non finicky parallax setting
- workable illumination to help find the point of aim with dark back drops or in lower light situations (I don’t care about illumination bleeding as it’s illegal to hunt or shoot at night where I live anyways)


I have a Pentax 80mm ED spotting scope to see hits on paper and MeoStar 8x55 B1.1 binoculars to search for coyotes with. The scope to me is a means to aim a gun in a variety of situations.

Last edited by simpleman19; 11/22/19.
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