24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.

ARIC

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,390
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,390
A 120 grain bullet at 2400 fps does have it's limitations

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
J
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
What bullets are you using? From the ballistic chart I have seen it has enough velocity to make some bullets work to 300 yards and if we go by 1000 ft lbs of energy for deer it carries that to 250 yards. I have loaded 100g NBT to 2600 fps, but can go almost 2800 fps. 2600 is where the best accuracy was though.

Saying that however, I have yet to try them on a deer. Only paper so far.

Last edited by Just a Hunter; 11/22/19.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,241
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,241
Need more details.

Guys are using the lrab to about 400 yards or so I have heard.


It isn't energy that kills, its holes.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

This is why a lot of people go 6.8 SPC...

2,700 to 3,000 FPS gives you more room to shoot further.

If you are woods hunting though, it’s really doesn’t matter.
I’m not a Gendel fan, or hater... I just built the SPC II of mine because it made sense å that the time, and I’m in pancake flat Kansas so I shoot deer out to 300 often.

Last year I took 3 does out of a string of 8 crossing the field with it - I use TTXS bullet from Barnes - they did a lot more meat damage then I thought they would have, but other wise all was well. (We can shoot 5 deer where I live due to over population so i try to thin the does out each year).

Anyway if you haven’t bought yet look at the 6.8 SPC II if you want some further shots.

IC B2

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
J
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
What is the difference between the 6.8 SPC and the 6.8 SPC II?

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Obviously you didn’t have your coffee this morning.

Originally Posted by dla
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.



“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
The cartridge is the same, but the chamber specifications are different (the SPC II has more free bore).

https://68forums.com/forums/showthr...e-between-the-6-8-spc-and-the-6-8-spc-II


A lot like 223 has different chamber specifications (clymer, Wylde, 5.56, ...)

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
J
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
I see Rock River is making their AR in the 6.8 SPC II chamber.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Perhaps.

The Nosler Ballistic app shows a129 ABLR started at 2450 maintains the required 1300 fps for that bullet to 925 yard. Energy is down to under 500 ft lbs. At 575 yards the energy is 804 ft lbs, enough for me, and velocity 1673.

I had a bunch of those, but sold them to a member here, prematurely it seems, since another Grendel is in the pipe. I believe that bullet is pretty popular with users of other 6.5s as well. Only 6.5 slug "in stock" here is some 100gr TTSXs, which don't look great on paper, but which I've read good things about as deer bullets. At the ranges I experience here they should be dandy, and reliable on tough stuff if needed.

Not bothering to look up the 6.8 as I did that before, and was convinced that within 200-300 yards the difference between the two was insignificant, and beyond that the Grendel starts to pull away, especially as to wind deflection. No matter to me as it's been a looong time since I was offered a shot at a deer at over 200 yards.

The market seems to have spoken in favor of the Grendel, but by all means follow your notions.


What fresh Hell is this?
IC B3

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 68,915
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 68,915
I would think the 100 gr Nosler BT At 2800 FPS would be good to go.

I’ve yet to build one, but am still planning to do so.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Bullets just aren't moving fast enough to reliably expand. They drill small holes in and out. Too much game wounded and lost when the shots get much past 200.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by David_Walter
Obviously you didn’t have your coffee this morning.

Originally Posted by dla
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.



He's just trolling. I seriously doubt he's actually hunted with a Grendel, and wouldn't believe him if he said he did.

Also, KelTec makes junk. whistle

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
It'll get a 100 grain Ballistic Tip to 300 yards at 2000 fps. Doesn't seem problematic.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Originally Posted by dla
Bullets just aren't moving fast enough to reliably expand. They drill small holes in and out. Too much game wounded and lost when the shots get much past 200.


Have it your way, Sunshine.🙄


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,943
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,943
I've seen the same thing with the 6.8 with the 90gr gold dots! I myself shot a young buck at 90yds +/-, just behind the shoulder and that buck took off. Very little blood trail tracked him for a good while and caught him bedded down and finished him with a 44mag. Upon inspection the 6.8 barely expanded the deer was spotting here and there. Schit happens comes down to bullet selection. Hopefully I'll be able to take one with 6.5Gr this year.


MAGA! This is the way!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Maybe the Sierra TMK will upset in the 6.5 the way it does with the .223. Otherwise we need a super soft, thin jacketed 120gr spire point just for the Grendel.
Way too many bullets penciling right on through otherwise.

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,486
P
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,486
This thread piqued my interest. Buddy just put together a 6.5 Grendel. It shoots very well (a Bear Creek upper, of all things) with 123grn ELD Hornady Black Ammo, but he's not shot anything with it besides paper and steel out to 200.

I just ran the numbers on a berger 130 at 2350fps. Still running 1800fps at 400 yards. At sea level.

While I generally roll my eyes at threads (like this one) where the deer that was shot right through the heart got away, I will say that the 6.5 Grendel never really warmed my heart.

Necking the Grendel case down to .243 or .224, with todays bullets, seems to turn it into a different animal entirely. That'll be the way I'll roll if I ever build an AR in anything besides a .223.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
1.5x.264" = .396". That is the max size of hole the bullet will drill through an animal when partially expanded. If the bullet isn't going fast enough (2200fps minimum) for the temp cavity to tear up some serious tissue, the wound will be one long skinny .4" diameter hole. The Hornady 123 GR SST take 2200fps to fully expand to .6", and given the .252 SD, it will penetrate.

Just because a skinny bullet expands, doesn't mean it will kill quick. You're far better off with a fragmenting bullet.

As I said earlier, the 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.



Last edited by dla; 11/22/19.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by dla
Maybe the Sierra TMK will upset in the 6.5 the way it does with the .223. Otherwise we need a super soft, thin jacketed 120gr spire point just for the Grendel.
Way too many bullets penciling right on through otherwise.


Wow you are really clueless.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,017
V
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
V
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,017
Sounds like there is a need for a 308

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Can't always judge the expansion of a bullet by the size of the exit hole. Often, when only the base is left, or when the petals fold back against the sides, a small hole results. I've seen this with Partitions.

Just as with even slower rounds such as the Blackout/Whisper, choosing a proper bullet is helpfull when there's not an abundance of power. The high-BC bullets available for the Grendel help maintain speed pretty far out.

As usual, interested parties should do their own research and not rely on the carping of those with agendas, pro or con. When someone starts off bashing something rather than posing a question or saying something positive, a little warning bell goes off.

Only took my first Grendel out to 300 on a range a couple of times, but found it easy to hit with using data from a ballistics app, my guesstimated velocity, and the three-legged duplex (T-Plex) reticle in my scope. I'd be very comfortable taking that shot on game as well. I have a better rifle (lighter in weight,than either of my Grendels, btw) for reaching way out if it comes to that, but wouldn't pass on a 300-400 yard shot with the little 6.5.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,499
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,499
Originally Posted by Pappy348
choosing a proper bullet is helpfull


That goes a long way towards working like it should...

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,615
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,615
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by David_Walter
Obviously you didn’t have your coffee this morning.

Originally Posted by dla
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.



He's just trolling. I seriously doubt he's actually hunted with a Grendel, and wouldn't believe him if he said he did.

Also, KelTec makes junk. whistle



Never shot a Grendle.
I question all these attempts at bigger diameter AR cartridges.
As a pragmatic person, who recognizes the need for speed, and mass, and bullet
design in an effective chamberings, they lack two of the three.

I do have a bit of experience with the Sweede.
Not impressed with 140, Sierra or BT'S. Only a few deer killed, all requiring more
than 1 hit to go down. A couple hit, not found. (Hit where? Can't be sure. But
I don't often lose deer)

Loads aren't cronographed, but are based on 260+ data.

Bullets have expanded, full penetration, but
Wounds have been very unimpressive.
120's are waiting for a test subject. Hopefully youngest daughter will prove
them next Saturday.

All to say, I have no problem believing a 120 started slower than my 140's
would not be impressive.

Often, i think these things just come down to where you are, where you shoot the deer,
and how much you enjoy hunting after the noise.

As a rifle hunter who isn't a fan of light calibers, I expect rib shot deer to go down in sight.
Any blood trails to be quite easy to follow.
Having to hunt for a shot animal is something I hate, and choices are made
with that in mind.

Last edited by Dillonbuck; 11/23/19.

Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
I've seen no real difference on deer between the .243, .257, .270, .308, .30/06, even the .44 mag at woods ranges. The bigger ones just blew up and jellied more meat. My grandson has used a little 7.62x39 on a couple of bucks with fine results. Sometimes they run, sometimes they flop, but ones hit well don't go far. Brain Pearce, a pretty reliable source I believe, is a big fan of the little 6.5, based on considerable experience with it. He and his brood shoot a lot, and a lot of game and varmints. I take his recommendations very seriously.

I'll have the new Grendel ready and try it out next season on deer. In the interim, I'll have fun futzing around with it without worrying about burning out the barrel, burning up a bunch of powder, or rattling my poor old brain. It might get the grandson test too.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Your rant seems to imply that the parent cartridge of the 6.5 Grendel, the 7.62x39, would also be ineffective. It lacks both velocity and mass, given the Grendel’s notional bullet weight at 123 grains and the Russian round at 124 grains.

Of course, this isn’t true.

This, followed by “I haven’t shot the Grendel,” doesn’t give much weight to your analysis......

Originally Posted by Dillonbuck

I question all these attempts at bigger diameter AR cartridges.
As a pragmatic person, who recognizes the need for speed, and mass, and bullet design in an effective chamberings, they lack two of the three.



“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,463
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,463
That's why I built a 243 LBC (6mm Grendel) instead of a 6.5 Grendel.

I just get a little more velocity and better sectional density for penetration.

But in all honesty, I have better rifles for shots past 200 yds.

Dan

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Originally Posted by dla
Bullets just aren't moving fast enough to reliably expand. They drill small holes in and out. Too much game wounded and lost when the shots get much past 200.
This is what I thought when my friend/neighbor put together an AR in 6.5 Grendel. We patrol our properties at least 5 days a week for hogs. We've killed several hogs some of them ^200 lbs. with it. None got away and 2 large ones were killed at over 300 yards. I shot one at just under 350 and he went down for the count. I know this is a limited sample but so far I'm impressed. I mostly use a .30-06 bolt rifle in the daytime and a .223 AR at night. The night shooting is generally under 200 yards. In any case I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot with the Grendel 129 grain Nosler LRAB if it was a shot I would take with a .308 w/150 grain bullet


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by Hastings
In any case I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot with the Grendel 129 grain Nosler LRAB if it was a shot I would take with a .308 w/150 grain bullet


What?

Are you trying to say bullet selection matters?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,148
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,148
Originally Posted by dla
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.


Ha. Thanks for all the convincing evidence. I'll continue to tempt fate with the marginal capabilities of the round.


Yup.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush defecating from his mouth wrote:
I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.

Wow! You clearly didn't even bother to read up on the cartridge before you made a fool of yourself.
Hint: theres a difference between ringing a steel plate and making an ethical kill.

It is people like you, influencing noobs, who then go out and waste animals.

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
'da fug you talkin' bout?

Everybody knows the 6.5G has long range ballistics superior to the tired old 308 Wench.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.

Mark LaRue took a bull elk at 405 yards with a 6.5 Grendel shooting a 120 grain Barnes TSX.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industr...eat-American-Safari-/219-164444/?page=1.

Last edited by skeen; 11/23/19.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
No first-hand here with the 6.5 Grendel, but it looks like one could load the 123gr SST up to 2500-2550 fps range in a 20" barrel.

That would hold 2000 fps out to over 350 yards in local atmo.

Will the SST expand at 2000 fps?

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
From the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, Volume 2
Looks like even a kid can do it.
All stunt shooters I'm sure.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Personally, I call it a good 300 yard cartridge. There are even cartridges that have inferior ballistics to the 6.5G that I call 300 yard rounds.

This doesn't mean that I wouldn't shoot a deer farther away than 300, it means I consider a 300 yard shot to be a "gimme" with the 6.5G.

Some of you guys would schitt if you got transported back to 1900 and were limited to those cartridges.


Politics is War by Other Means
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,721
B
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,721
Originally Posted by NVhntr
From the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, Volume 2
Looks like even a kid can do it.
All stunt shooters I'm sure.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


That's pretty cool. NVhntr, did those images come from the Nevada hunting synopsis? The one with the yote looks like northern Nevada where I grew up.... I miss shooting long range there... Oddly enough, one of my club members was shooting his SPR chambered in 6.5 grendel yesterday, while I was also testing out my new Tikka and shooting my 6WOA while I let the barrel cool on the Tikka during load development. We got into a good discussion about the grendel and compared cartridges side by side. The grendel is shorter than my 6WOA and slower, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work inside 300 yards with the right bullet. I kind of got a chuckle out of this older gentleman when he said he was trying to burn up all of his "chitty" 123gr. A-max bullets. He said, "they found the tips are burning off past 1000 yards". I asked him if he knew how many animals have died to the A-max bullet. He said, "no, I thought they were garbage". I told him not to sweat using the A-max for anything out of that grendel, as it should work exceptionally well at the ranges you should be shooting game animals out to." I really liked how he had his rifle set up. However, It didn't shoot nearly as good as my WOA, but that was to be expected... I have nothing against the grendel, but do see advantages to using the 6mm over it for most applications. If I'm going to be using a 6.5 in the AR platform, i'll pull out my creedmoor.... Just how I roll, no offense to the grendel shooters here...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Good morning BSA. The images above came out of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading book, vol. 2 which is focused on hunting loads.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Good morning BSA. The images above came out of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading book, vol. 2 which is focused on hunting loads.

Any idea how long each animal took to expire? Range? Animals shot to tagged ratio?

No?

Then you don't know shlt about how the cartridge performs.

When the bullet drops below 2000-2200fps, it is going to pencil through like a target arrow. It might expand, but it isnt a huge bullet to start with. Kills slowly unless shot placement is perfect.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge much past 200 yards.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Originally Posted by dla
Bullets just aren't moving fast enough to reliably expand. They drill small holes in and out. Too much game wounded and lost when the shots get much past 200.

as long as the vitals are damaged the size of entry and exit have almost nothing to do with death. Maybe how long, like it adds a few minutes or seconds but thats it.

I STRIVE that all our deer are caliber entry and small fingernail exit and they go down just fine to astonishing ranges.

If you are of the I have to shoulder shoot and demand a bang flop for whatever reason then picking a Grendel knowing its a slower round was stupid.

All that said the 6x6.8 isn't fast with an 85 grain and its results have been the same also. And results same from nephews 6.8 and X39. They just don't kill like 257 wtby speed but I've killed past 500 with most of the above without issue.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.


Dang wish I'd read this before I typed a reply... I'd have saved my time knowing DLA is an idiot then.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.


Dang wish I'd read this before I typed a reply... I'd have saved my time knowing DLA is an idiot then.



Jeff,

He's not just an idiot, he's and idiot troll.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.


Dang wish I'd read this before I typed a reply... I'd have saved my time knowing DLA is an idiot then.



Jeff,

He's not just an idiot, he's and idiot troll.

Can't argue the facts so you and the tiny dick crowd throw stones.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
DLA is the same clown who says Glocks are garbage and Keltecs are the only way to roll, along with classics like if you are not shooting full power loads in your .44 magnum all the time, you are not a real man and should buy a smaller gun. Mid range loads are for women. All true gems. crazy

Some people open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Bill Alexander brought 6.5 G rifles out to a group of us in the 2000s, in hopes of securing a potential contract from our organization. They were pretty easy to make hits at rather extended distances with. Ballistics wise it is a pretty impressive cartridge from a standard AR platform. I would not want to be anywhere within 750 yards or so of a properly trained individual who had a 6.5 G, knew his dope, and I was an adversary.

It probably is a crap cartridge in the hands of DLA though.

In the hands of a capable shooter, I would have no issue taking shots on average deer out to 350-375 provided the environmental factors were favorable.


Dang wish I'd read this before I typed a reply... I'd have saved my time knowing DLA is an idiot then.



Jeff,

He's not just an idiot, he's and idiot troll.

Can't argue the facts so you and the tiny dick crowd throw stones.


Says the troll who's never shot a 6.5 Gren.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by rost495

as long as the vitals are damaged the size of entry and exit have almost nothing to do with death. Maybe how long, like it adds a few minutes or seconds but thats it.
.


And that is the difference between tagging and losing an animal.

When the bullet is moving too slow for the stretch cavity to tear up tissue, the only killing mechanism is the bullet crushing tissue. A tiny bullet makes a tiny wound track, and animals can run a long, long ways.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartride much past 200 yds.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
You are truly a dumb pluck if you believe that.

Kill deer pigs and javelina every year with well under 1200 fps rounds. Some as slow as 750 fps.

Even a 380 acp pistol.

Like anything else if the round is placed correctly, it does its job in a short distance. Typically 30-50 steps most deer we've taken.

I know a hard lead bullet isn't expanding much. And I know my 900 FPS whisper rounds always enter caliber size and exit about double that.

And this years foray into 6.5 Creedmoor its HARD to find entry holes. Exits our pinky finger nail size and thats MORE than enough to kill em, quickly enough and shortly enough and easy enough to find.

I'm sorry you don't understand how to find deer that have been shot.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Originally Posted by dla

When the bullet drops below 2000-2200fps, it is going to pencil through like a target arrow. It might expand, but it isnt a huge bullet to start with. Kills slowly unless shot placement is perfect.
I get pink mist and lung chunks out the off side of a deer's chest at that velocity.


Politics is War by Other Means
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Not agreeing with dla but so far my Grendel has not killed anything farther away than 200 yards mostly because I don't get shots even that far most of the time. At that it is a far better round for deer and pigs than the 223 though that round works pretty good with the right hits. My favorite load uses the 129 grain Hornady spire point going 2250 fps, this bullet being originally designed for the smaller WWII and WWI 6.5's opens pretty easily. I see no reason why it wouldn't work another 100 yards out if the right bullets are used. I believe the 6.5 G and the 6.8 SPC were designed as an improvement over the 5.56 for hunting the smaller big game species and they do this well.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
Finn Aagaard said something to the effect that "shot placement was 90% of killing power"

When you have a guy complaining that a cartridge is a POS past 200 yards, it is pretty indicative of his skills as a shooter and a hunter, rather than the cartridge.

Much like the old "The .308/30-06 is worthless for elk/big mule deer, I shot an elk right through the heart and it ran off and I never recovered it" stories.

Followed by "You need a such and such Magnum to kill big animals".





crazy


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
He keeps mentioning 200 yards and 2000 fps, while much earlier in the thread I noted it'll keep a 100 grain Ballistic Tip at 2000 fps at 300 yards. What gives?

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush

When you have a guy complaining that a cartridge is a POS past 200 yards, it is pretty indicative of his skills as a shooter and a hunter, rather than the cartridge.


Agreed 100%, but - I seriously doubt dla has ever hunted with a Grendel, or anything else for that matter. Nothing he says about this or any other gun topic seems to indicate any actual experience; he's just going by stuff he's read and his own imagination.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush

When you have a guy complaining that a cartridge is a POS past 200 yards, it is pretty indicative of his skills as a shooter and a hunter, rather than the cartridge.


Agreed 100%, but - I seriously doubt dla has ever hunted with a Grendel, or anything else for that matter. Nothing he says about this or any other gun topic seems to indicate any actual experience; he's just going by stuff he's read and his own imagination.

Did you orgasm while typing that?


Last edited by dla; 11/25/19.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
I think you have mental issues.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Originally Posted by dla
You guys nailed it; I'm a clueless troll. Kel-Tec makes the best guns in the world and I voted for Hillary.
Gotta go now, Mom just called me up from the basement for dinner.


You go girl!


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Originally Posted by mathman
He keeps mentioning 200 yards and 2000 fps, while much earlier in the thread I noted it'll keep a 100 grain Ballistic Tip at 2000 fps at 300 yards. What gives?


Not to mention the figures I posted on the 129gr LRAB.

Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

He should run for Congress; he's a Natural.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Pretty obvious that some of you are far too stupid to question the fanboys stoking your egos.

The Grendel is an OK hunting cartridge for 200 yds. But it is not a good 300 yd hunting cartridge.

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms. You pick long skinny bullets to get the high BC, but you give up too much velocity.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Damn,


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Damn,


Yup. Troll. Rude, insulting troll to boot.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Originally Posted by dla
Pretty obvious that some of you are far too stupid to question the fanboys stoking your egos.The Grendel is an OK hunting cartridge for 200 yds. But it is not a good 300 yd hunting cartridge.Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms. You pick long skinny bullets to get the high BC, but you give up too much velocity.The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.
I have limited experience with the Grendel but so far it seems to kill far better than you think it does based on math. I know arithmetic doesn't lie but some combinations of bullet, case, and powder seem to work better than the math says they will. I have a combination of .277 Win. power point loaded in a .270W at 2750 fps that works on game way better than a 7mm RM I used to use.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by dla
Pretty obvious that some of you are far too stupid to question the fanboys stoking your egos.The Grendel is an OK hunting cartridge for 200 yds. But it is not a good 300 yd hunting cartridge.Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms. You pick long skinny bullets to get the high BC, but you give up too much velocity.The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.
I have limited experience with the Grendel but so far it seems to kill far better than you think it does based on math. I know arithmetic doesn't lie but some combinations of bullet, case, and powder seem to work better than the math says they will. I have a combination of .277 Win. power point loaded in a .270W at 2750 fps that works on game way better than a 7mm RM I used to use.


The only guy here that I know of with a PHD in math seems to think it will kill just fine, so, just saying.......


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Damn,


Yup. Troll. Rude, insulting troll to boot.

This thread is a great reminder of the character...


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Hastings
[/quote]I have limited experience with the Grendel but so far it seems to kill far better than you think it does based on math. I know arithmetic doesn't lie but some combinations of bullet, case, and powder seem to work better than the math says they will. I have a combination of .277 Win. power point loaded in a .270W at 2750 fps that works on game way better than a 7mm RM I used to use.

It is really more of a bullet & velocity issue. Some of the quickest killing bullets on thin-skinned game like deer are those that open up violently upon impact. Cheap cup & core bullets driven fast.

The 90gr bullet can achieve plenty velocity out of the Grendel to be and excellent 200 yd deer killer, but it doesn't have the high BC that the sniper wannabes desire.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?


Notice how his reply included nothing regarding any hunting experience he has?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Antelope Sniper: Have you or someone you know used the Grendel? My experience (limited) with it has been good. Maybe I'm more attentive to bullet placement than I once was. A young lady in our family is going to buy her own rifle even though she is welcome use one of mine. The .270 recoiled more than she liked so she has been using my Weatherby Vanguard 2 in .223. She told me she had done some research and was thinking of getting a 6.5 Creed. I told her the Creed is a fine caliber but she might do just as well deer hunting with a Grendel and get even less recoil. She seems to be more than average averse to recoil. We don't hunt out west in barren country but the occasional 300+ yard shot does present itself.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Originally Posted by dla
Pretty obvious that some of you are far too stupid to question the fanboys stoking your egos.

The Grendel is an OK hunting cartridge for 200 yds. But it is not a good 300 yd hunting cartridge.

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms. You pick long skinny bullets to get the high BC, but you give up too much velocity.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.

but... long skinny high bc KEEPS the velocity up longer.....

That said with your opinions, I"ve countered with mine. I have NO problem killing with slow non violent bullets. NONE. Even out to longer distances than most feel good with.

Again you work with paper numbers more than deer numbers.

Lets take me out with a Grendel and at your 300 yard it won't kill squat distance and how many deer you want me to kill? It won't be hard.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
By your own words the grendel bullet opens to .40 .
I have shot many head of game with a 45-70 . For your edification that bullet is.460 out of my molds. Weight anywhere from 290 g. To 500g.
Cast hard, and moving anywhere from 1100 to 1800 fps at the muzzle.
.460 hole going in and .460 hole coming out.
Take a half inch hose and see what kind of stream it produces.
If your frangible perfect bullet blows up on entry you lose.
The 6.5 bullet has a history of being a fine penetrator. I killed many deer in my youth with a 6.5 carcano with some ranging to 350 yards.
Don't have a Grendel but wouldn't hesitate using one at the same distance if I could still see that far😁

In closing I just have to say...... DLA is a poor Hunter past 200 yards

Last edited by deerstalker; 11/26/19.

the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by Hastings
Antelope Sniper: Have you or someone you know used the Grendel? My experience (limited) with it has been good. Maybe I'm more attentive to bullet placement than I once was. A young lady in our family is going to buy her own rifle even though she is welcome use one of mine. The .270 recoiled more than she liked so she has been using my Weatherby Vanguard 2 in .223. She told me she had done some research and was thinking of getting a 6.5 Creed. I told her the Creed is a fine caliber but she might do just as well deer hunting with a Grendel and get even less recoil. She seems to be more than average averse to recoil. We don't hunt out west in barren country but the occasional 300+ yard shot does present itself.


Hastings,

I have not used the Grendel beyond shooting another guys rigs at the range a couple of times. One that I shot was really set up for cross purposes, what a 16" barrel and an Eotech sight crazy. So, I've never got to stretch the legs on one properly set up with good hand loads. Regardless, I've killed game far enough to know NAB still expand down around 1800 fps, and that's the regular AB's, not the LRAB's. Sure, you don't get the explosive devastation of a 3300 fps impact, but you also have a whole lot less blood shot meat. The LRAB's are advertised to expand into the 1200's, and i suspect even at those velocities, they would do just fine providing the shooter had the skill to keep them in the boiler room.

The primary medium rifle in our family, over 4 generations, is the .270 Winchester. I shoot 59gr H-4831 over a 140gr NBT/NAB, lit with a CCI-200, and back it off two grains for the wife and kids. That's in Winchester brass, if you use something heavier like Remington, you'll want to back that off a grain.

In this state the minimum for big game hunting is a 6mm bullet, and 85grains for Elk. I started my kids on AR's early, so to keep the same ergonomics etc, I wanted an AR hunting solution. For that I've build a pair of 6x45's, one with a 22" barrel the other with a 16. the 22" shoot great with the 90gr NBT, 10 shot groups just over an inch, but I have yet to scope the 16". They are both BHW barrels, so I imagine it will shoot just fine.


Last edited by antelope_sniper; 11/26/19.

You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Originally Posted by dla
Pretty obvious that some of you are far too stupid to question the fanboys stoking your egos.

The Grendel is an OK hunting cartridge for 200 yds. But it is not a good 300 yd hunting cartridge.

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms. You pick long skinny bullets to get the high BC, but you give up too much velocity.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge past 200 yds.


Hey RETARD what have you killed with the Grendel and at what distances? Do you even own a Grendel?


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
If DLA would post a picture of a deer he has killed, or a rifle that he owns, or a pistol he owns I might believe he is not a troll. His posts seem to be based on his interpretation of what he reads on the web. I have killed deer with 5.56, 6.8 SPC, 257 Roberts, plus bigger and have noticed after shooting almost 100 deer or so that the bullet and where it hits make the most difference. My grandson shot a spike yesterday at 120 yards with 6.8/95g TTSX. The deer was hit too far back but it traveled 10 ft and lay down. I have a hard time believing that a 120 TTSX out of a grendal at 350 yards would not punch through a deers shoulders. Again like most I believe DLA is sock puppet or troll just here to stir things up.


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by mathman
He keeps mentioning 200 yards and 2000 fps, while much earlier in the thread I noted it'll keep a 100 grain Ballistic Tip at 2000 fps at 300 yards. What gives?


With a 22" barrel it will keep a 100gr NBT at 2000 FPS out to 400 yards.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
I still don't get the 2000 FPS thing even. I"d hunt with a 22LR if it was legal. Deer are just not that hard to kill. Obviously not at 300 yards but you get the point.

Assuming DLA can even HIT a deer at 300 I'm gonna say he has really really really poor recovery skills if it doesn't fall on the spot.

And too many folks rely on deer dropping at the shot... if I were them, I'd learn to track as best I could. Sooner or later even with the 50 loudenboomerDLA express magnum you are going to have a deer run. They all run if you miss. If you hit they run less....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by rost495
I still don't get the 2000 FPS thing even. I"d hunt with a 22LR if it was legal. Deer are just not that hard to kill. Obviously not at 300 yards but you get the point.

Assuming DLA can even HIT a deer at 300 I'm gonna say he has really really really poor recovery skills if it doesn't fall on the spot.

And too many folks rely on deer dropping at the shot... if I were them, I'd learn to track as best I could. Sooner or later even with the 50 loudenboomerDLA express magnum you are going to have a deer run. They all run if you miss. If you hit they run less....


Jeff,

The 2000 fps things comes from an article posted in the pistol thread discussing why rifles do so much more damage than pistols. The articles discusses how tissue cannot resist the hydrostatic shock created by impact velocities greater than about 2k fps. Below 2k fps the "temporary" wound cavity remains temporary, where above 2k, since it can't resist the tearing the temporary wound cavity stays permanent. That's the source of DLA's fixation on the 2k fps.


Of course, in the real world, that's just one variable. As mentioned here before, there are bullets specifically made for subsonic hunting that expand very well, and leave big holes, regardless of velocity. The other side of the "above 2k" effect is called bloodshot meat. This effect is greatly reduced below 2k. It's why some old timer who like to "eat up to the bullet hole" like killing with rifles like the 30-30, the 30-40 craig, or even the old 45-70. One old boy in our shooting club like killing things with cast lead bullets out of his 38-55, including a large bull buffalo. Some of those black powder cartridge shooters are pretty amazing. Their standard course of fire goes out to 500 yards. Just don't tell DLA, he doesn't think you can shoot that far with black powder.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by rost495
And too many folks rely on deer dropping at the shot... if I were them, I'd learn to track as best I could. Sooner or later even with the 50 loudenboomerDLA express magnum you are going to have a deer run. They all run if you miss. If you hit they run less....


If a deer drops in it's tracks, it's because you hit it in the CNS, other wise, it's going to run....at least a ways.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by rost495
I still don't get the 2000 FPS thing even.


Yeah, that's dumbing down some basic rule of thumb to the point of stupidity. The other dumb stuff about calculating expanded bullet diameter etc just adds to the foolishness.

Out of all the stupid and juvenile stuff dla has posted, there is one valid point that he's made unintentionally - that bullets have to be selected to match the intended velocity range. Most of us know this of course, and fortunately there are a number of very good choices for the Grendel's velocity range, even in short barrels. For example, the very common 123gr ELD bullet works down to about 1800 fps (some claim a little lower), which gives me ~300 yards but that's from a 12.5" barrel at sea level. Longer barrels and higher altitudes obviously increase that range. Or we've got the excellent 129gr ABLR that is marketed to expand down to 1300 fps, which is more than 750 yards, again from a 12.5" barrel at sea level. I'm not going to be shooting game at that distance, but the capabilities of the right bullet for the cartridge are there.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

The 2000 fps things comes from an article posted in the pistol thread discussing why rifles do so much more damage than pistols. The articles discusses how tissue cannot resist the hydrostatic shock created by impact velocities greater than about 2k fps. Below 2k fps the "temporary" wound cavity remains temporary, where above 2k, since it can't resist the tearing the temporary wound cavity stays permanent. That's the source of DLA's fixation on the 2k fps.



That's the source, but it's wrong, as is easily demonstrated with expanding low velocity bullets in hunting. Just as one example, I've had subsonic (1,000 fps) hollow points tear golf-ball sized holes through heart and lungs, with the core still punching through the far shoulder. Obviously the bullet didn't expand to the size of a golf ball, or it wouldn't have penetrated very far, but the damage was there and plainly visible when we butchered the animals. I think rost495 has seen similar effects IIRC.

I've also killed deer with both Grendel and 300 Blackout with impact velocities well under 2,000 fps, with resulting damage that was indistinguishable from a 30/30 or similar. Bullet choice matters, the oft quoted 2,000 fps mark - not so much.

Too many people look at entry and exit holes in the skin (which is very flexible) and try to draw conclusions about the internal damage; that doesn't work. Also, some of these studies about bullets needing 2000+ fps are based on very old data that does not reflect what modern bullets do on impact.

Last edited by Yondering; 11/26/19.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,607
For a number of years the load I shot pretty much exclusively out of the .308 I used, was a 175 grain SMK. It duplicated 118LR which I was quite familiar with. When it came to making wind calls in the field, this paid off time and again.

If you go online the internet will tell you that SMKs are terrible hunting bullets and blah blah. That said, in dozens of animals hit, never did one need a second round, and they never went far, if anywhere more than about the usual 4 or 5 stagger steps, followed by the tumble.

Finn Aagaard, though he has been gone 19 years now, never said it better. Shot placement is 90% of killing power. When you are precise in your placement, everything else usually falls right in line.

I still shoot them a lot in my big .308, when I shoot it.

Example:

A bunch of cows were bunched up in a group at a distance where stalking closer across the wide open was not going to happen, and it was obvious they were going to run when they took off. I was not going to shoot when that happened. One cow stuck her neck and head out away from the group and received a 175 grain SMK as a result.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


The point is for "some", certain cartridges and projectiles probably are garbage for them.


For guys like Montana Marine, Rost 495, BSA and a whole list of guys on here who are solid shooters, and shoot most of the year round, it is not really that hard.

For guys who just read a chart, make assumptions with absolutely zero field experience on the particular subject matter to back up their BS, you get the postings of DLA.

And then of course, we get to reaffirm what we already knew, each time he posts, as he removes any doubt whatsoever.


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by Dantheman
That's why I built a 243 LBC (6mm Grendel) instead of a 6.5 Grendel.

I just get a little more velocity and better sectional density for penetration.

But in all honesty, I have better rifles for shots past 200 yds.

Dan


Missed this one earlier. I have both cartridges as well.

If you're looking for penetration, the 6.5 Grendel is the better choice of the two. Higher velocity in the 243 does NOT equal better penetration; most of the time it means less penetration and more fragmentation. It does shoot flatter than the Grendel though.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
I've noticed that very slow bullets don't "cut" through bone like higher velocity bullets. It seems like they break off bone, often in larger chucks than you expect and you end up with some pretty nasty secondary missiles anyway. The crushing and cutting can be pretty impressive with slow, black powder velocity projectiles.


Politics is War by Other Means
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,715
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Some of those black powder cartridge shooters are pretty amazing. Their standard course of fire goes out to 500 yards. Just don't tell DLA, he doesn't think you can shoot that far with black powder.
Back in 1874 Billy Dixon Killed a Comanche at over 1500 yards with a black powder buffalo rifle. No telling what he could of accomplished with a Grendel.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,262
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,262
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned.

I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. grin


Semper Fi
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned.

I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. grin


Beretzs,

Here's what the quick load for you 20" barrel looks like with the 129gr LRAB:

Code
Cartridge          : 6.5 Grendel  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943
Useable Case Capaci: 29.619 grain H2O = 1.923 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.786% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-17.9   78    23.00   2028    1178   29952   6351     92.0    1.427
-16.1   80    23.50   2071    1228   31682   6515     92.9    1.394
-14.3   82    24.00   2113    1279   33512   6674     93.8    1.363
-12.5   83    24.50   2156    1332   35455   6827     94.7    1.332
-10.7   85    25.00   2199    1386   37513   6974     95.5    1.301
-08.9   87    25.50   2242    1440   39684   7114     96.2    1.267
-07.1   88    26.00   2285    1496   42014   7246     96.9    1.235
-05.4   90    26.50   2328    1552   44474   7371     97.5    1.204  ! Near Maximum !
-03.6   92    27.00   2370    1610   47089   7488     98.0    1.173  ! Near Maximum !
-01.8   94    27.50   2413    1668   49869   7596     98.5    1.144  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   95    28.00   2455    1727   52828   7695     98.9    1.115  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8   97    28.50   2498    1787   55979   7785     99.3    1.088  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   99    29.00   2540    1847   59341   7865     99.5    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4  100    29.50   2582    1909   62926   7935     99.8    1.035  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.1  102    30.00   2623    1971   66757   7995     99.9    1.010  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.9  104    30.50   2665    2034   70856   8043    100.0    0.986  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


And here it is with the 100gr NBT:

Code
Cartridge          : 6.5 Grendel  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100
Useable Case Capaci: 32.965 grain H2O = 2.140 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.562% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-15.6   83    27.00   2352    1228   31098   7116     88.8    1.242
-14.1   84    27.50   2397    1275   32692   7287     89.8    1.217
-12.5   86    28.00   2442    1324   34392   7454     90.7    1.193
-10.9   87    28.50   2486    1373   36176   7617     91.7    1.169
-09.4   89    29.00   2532    1423   38058   7774     92.5    1.143
-07.8   90    29.50   2577    1474   40046   7926     93.4    1.116
-06.2   92    30.00   2622    1526   42146   8073     94.2    1.090
-04.7   93    30.50   2667    1580   44365   8213     94.9    1.065  ! Near Maximum !
-03.1   95    31.00   2712    1634   46708   8347     95.6    1.040  ! Near Maximum !
-01.6   96    31.50   2758    1689   49198   8474     96.3    1.016  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   98    32.00   2803    1745   51829   8593     96.9    0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6   99    32.50   2848    1801   54620   8705     97.4    0.970  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1  101    33.00   2894    1859   57579   8808     97.9    0.948  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.7  102    33.50   2939    1918   60722   8903     98.4    0.927  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.2  104    34.00   2984    1977   64062   8989     98.8    0.906  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.8  106    34.50   3029    2037   67617   9066     99.1    0.885  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned.

I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. grin

I'm diving in with the 129 LRAB too.... At 3800"+ it might work well enough I can put the big cannon Creedmeister away.. grin


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,262
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,262
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned.

I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. grin


Beretzs,

Here's what the quick load for you 20" barrel looks like with the 129gr LRAB:

Code
Cartridge          : 6.5 Grendel  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943
Useable Case Capaci: 29.619 grain H2O = 1.923 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.786% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-17.9   78    23.00   2028    1178   29952   6351     92.0    1.427
-16.1   80    23.50   2071    1228   31682   6515     92.9    1.394
-14.3   82    24.00   2113    1279   33512   6674     93.8    1.363
-12.5   83    24.50   2156    1332   35455   6827     94.7    1.332
-10.7   85    25.00   2199    1386   37513   6974     95.5    1.301
-08.9   87    25.50   2242    1440   39684   7114     96.2    1.267
-07.1   88    26.00   2285    1496   42014   7246     96.9    1.235
-05.4   90    26.50   2328    1552   44474   7371     97.5    1.204  ! Near Maximum !
-03.6   92    27.00   2370    1610   47089   7488     98.0    1.173  ! Near Maximum !
-01.8   94    27.50   2413    1668   49869   7596     98.5    1.144  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   95    28.00   2455    1727   52828   7695     98.9    1.115  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8   97    28.50   2498    1787   55979   7785     99.3    1.088  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   99    29.00   2540    1847   59341   7865     99.5    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4  100    29.50   2582    1909   62926   7935     99.8    1.035  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.1  102    30.00   2623    1971   66757   7995     99.9    1.010  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.9  104    30.50   2665    2034   70856   8043    100.0    0.986  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


And here it is with the 100gr NBT:

Code
Cartridge          : 6.5 Grendel  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100
Useable Case Capaci: 32.965 grain H2O = 2.140 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.562% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-15.6   83    27.00   2352    1228   31098   7116     88.8    1.242
-14.1   84    27.50   2397    1275   32692   7287     89.8    1.217
-12.5   86    28.00   2442    1324   34392   7454     90.7    1.193
-10.9   87    28.50   2486    1373   36176   7617     91.7    1.169
-09.4   89    29.00   2532    1423   38058   7774     92.5    1.143
-07.8   90    29.50   2577    1474   40046   7926     93.4    1.116
-06.2   92    30.00   2622    1526   42146   8073     94.2    1.090
-04.7   93    30.50   2667    1580   44365   8213     94.9    1.065  ! Near Maximum !
-03.1   95    31.00   2712    1634   46708   8347     95.6    1.040  ! Near Maximum !
-01.6   96    31.50   2758    1689   49198   8474     96.3    1.016  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   98    32.00   2803    1745   51829   8593     96.9    0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6   99    32.50   2848    1801   54620   8705     97.4    0.970  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1  101    33.00   2894    1859   57579   8808     97.9    0.948  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.7  102    33.50   2939    1918   60722   8903     98.4    0.927  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.2  104    34.00   2984    1977   64062   8989     98.8    0.906  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.8  106    34.50   3029    2037   67617   9066     99.1    0.885  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


That’d work okay for me. 129’s at 2400 would be a sweet combo in my book.


Semper Fi
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by deerstalker
By your own words the grendel bullet opens to .40 .
I have shot many head of game with a 45-70 . For your edification that bullet is.460 out of my molds. Weight anywhere from 290 g. To 500g.
Cast hard, and moving anywhere from 1100 to 1800 fps at the muzzle.
.460 hole going in and .460 hole coming out.
Take a half inch hose and see what kind of stream it produces.
If your frangible perfect bullet blows up on entry you lose.
The 6.5 bullet has a history of being a fine penetrator. I killed many deer in my youth with a 6.5 carcano with some ranging to 350 yards.
Don't have a Grendel but wouldn't hesitate using one at the same distance if I could still see that far😁

In closing I just have to say...... DLA is a poor Hunter past 200 yards

Ok Mr. Nuclear Rocket Surgeon, how long is the wound channel neck with a 45-70? Especially a WFN bullet?
Right - ZERO.
The 45-70 cannot be made to crush less than a 1/2" hole all the way through.

But a 6.5mm is 25% of the frontal area of the 45-70 (33.2mm vs 126.7mm).

The problem isn't lack of penetration, the problem is the lack of tissue damage due to lack of velocity.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by dla
...., the problem is the lack of tissue damage due to lack of velocity.

We've already demonstrated the absurdity of this claim. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

Now go play with your Barbie Dolls, grown up are talking.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?


LMAO!! laugh
I guess Kel-Tec doesn't make a 6.5 Grendel or we'd be hearing none of this nonsense.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by dla

Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.


You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this?

Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?


LMAO!! laugh
I guess Kel-Tec doesn't make a 6.5 Grendel or we'd be hearing none of this nonsense.


Hahahaha! Truth!

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
Originally Posted by dla
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it.


Reply to this is simple - B.S. Op has little or dare I say no real world experience with the Grendel. Now for 12" barrel length and a non hunting bullet the OP's statement may hold some water. A number of good hunting bullets would do very well out to over 350 yards in the right hands. One of my favorites is the 129 GR SP over Lever evolution. this is yielding 2700ish FPSat the muzzle from a 24" barrel.


love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control

& Proverbs 21:19
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
To be fair I may not know what I am talking about either, as I have yet to need to take a shot over 100 yards on game with my 6.5 Grendel.


love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control

& Proverbs 21:19
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.

With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.

At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.

129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.


I hear what you're putting down, but oddly enough at least in my Grendel, the ABLR tops out a little slower than I expected compared to some other bullets. Part of that is probably due to the long nose and deeper seated base to stay within mag constraints (2.300" with ASC mags). I'm able to push a 140gr SGK to about the same velocity as the ABLR (a little under 2250 fps for both), based on case life with loads for both. That's not exact of course, but it's using the same brass, powder, and rifle for both loads. However, at 2,240 fps for my 129 ABLR accuracy load, it's plenty adequate for as far out as I care to shoot. Note that this is similar muzzle velocity to a lot of older "deer gun" cartridges like the 30/30 and 35 Remington, which have killed tons of deer over the years, but that ABLR is a modern bullet design that extends the range and performance envelope significantly.

I will say that when I used this bullet on deer last fall, it was devastating. The exit wounds were larger than my fist, with chunks (not just spray) of lungs and other tissue on the brush around the deer. Since impact velocity would have been somewhere between 1800 and 2000 fps, the 130gr AB probably would have worked just as well but the ABLR gives a wider range of performance in this low velocity round.

Last edited by Yondering; 11/26/19.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,017
V
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
V
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,017
I remember watching a tv show that was interviewing a sniper that had served in Vietnam. He was sharing a story about the VC using a water buffalo as concealment as they walked between rice paddies. He said the buff had too many legs. So he shoots the buffalo. If I recall he said it was 900 yards.

Now his 308 and load wouldn’t be considered a buffalo round at any distance, much less 900 yards but it did the trick.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Waiting on a new Grendel barrel to get here, but loading test rounds with 123 gr A max's, 100, and 120 gr Ballistic tips, and 123 gr sst's.
All set at 2.250.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by splattermatic; 11/27/19.
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
As they say, a picture equals a 1,000 words...One of my sons with a Larue 6.5 Grendel and Hornady 123grain SSTs.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Yeah but probably only 199.9 yards... LMAO

Slow kills. My civil war musket shoots some kind of round ball but I only run about 60 of FFg. Never had an issue with it either.

DLA needs to get real life experience, not paper.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
Sometimes I think DLA is a special person other times I think he just wants attention, and then other times I think he is someone’s sock puppet. Then I go back to his love of Keltec and the special person moniker fits better. He has nothing but personal attacks when he defends his position, so he is probably a democrat as well. I would be delighted if he would post a picture of something he has shot, or some gun he owns.


Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,943
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,943
A chunk of lead from a Sharps moving at subsonic speed will kill a person (Indian) in Mr. Dixon did but now your comparing apples to oranges! I still wouldn't want to be shot with a Grr at that distance regardless! Just saw a video of a guy shooting the lowly 22lr at ballistics gel at 300yds and it was still penetrating 11+ inches at that distance, no expansion but still impressive for a 22.


MAGA! This is the way!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by jimmyp
Sometimes I think DLA is a special person other times I think he just wants attention, and then other times I think he is someone’s sock puppet. Then I go back to his love of Keltec and the special person moniker fits better. He has nothing but personal attacks when he defends his position, so he is probably a democrat as well. I would be delighted if he would post a picture of something he has shot, or some gun he owns.


This forum is a rough and tumble mix of dumbshlts, not-so-brights and normal folks. Dumbshlts think they know things and they attract not-so-brights as cheerleaders. Normal people are entertained and usually learn a few things along the way. Anytime the dumbshlts are pushed to examine their "facts" - they attack. Usually with stupid-assed posts like yours.

"The information's out there," Suit reminds his mentor: "All you have to do is let it in."
- Deputy Suit in Jesse Stone "No Remorse"

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by dla

This forum is a rough and tumble mix of dumbshlts, not-so-brights and normal folks. Dumbshlts think they know things and they attract not-so-brights as cheerleaders. Normal people are entertained and usually learn a few things along the way. Anytime the dumbshlts are pushed to examine their "facts" - they attack. Usually with stupid-assed posts like yours.


Only half right - you haven't attracted any cheerleaders.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Code
Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer:	Nosler	Description:	Accubond Long Range Spitzer (G7)
Caliber:	0.264 in	Weight:	129.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient:	0.285 G7 (ASM)		
Muzzle Velocity:	2600.0 ft/s	Distance to Chronograph:	10.0 ft
Sight Height:	1.50 in	Sight Offset:	0.00 in
Zero Height:	0.00 in	Zero Offset:	0.00 in
Windage:	0.000 MOA	Elevation:	0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle:	0.0 deg	Cant Angle:	0.0 deg
Wind Speed:	10.0 mph	Wind Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Speed:	10.0 mph	Target Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Height:	12.0 in		
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0 %	Altitude:	5280.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius:	5.0 in		
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range:	No	Target Relative Drops:	Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing:	No	Include Extra Rows:	No
Column 1 Units:	1.00 in	Column 2 Units:	1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers:	No		
Output Data
Elevation:	3.965 MOA	Windage:	0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density:	0.06296 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR:	327 yd	Maximum PBR Zero:	277 yd
Range of Maximum Height:	151 yd	Energy at Maximum PBR:	1370.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density:	0.264 lb/in²		
Calculated Table
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	2604.5	2.333	1942.6	0.000	0.0	***
25	-0.6	-2.4	0.0	0.1	2571.2	2.303	1893.3	0.029	5.1	19.5
50	-0.1	-0.1	0.1	0.3	2538.1	2.273	1844.9	0.058	10.3	19.6
75	0.1	0.2	0.3	0.4	2505.3	2.244	1797.5	0.088	15.5	19.7
100	-0.0	-0.0	0.5	0.5	2472.7	2.215	1751.0	0.118	20.8	19.9
125	-0.5	-0.4	0.8	0.6	2440.3	2.186	1705.5	0.149	26.2	20.0
150	-1.3	-0.9	1.2	0.8	2408.2	2.157	1660.9	0.180	31.6	20.1
175	-2.6	-1.4	1.7	0.9	2376.3	2.128	1617.2	0.211	37.1	20.3
200	-4.2	-2.0	2.2	1.0	2344.7	2.100	1574.5	0.243	42.7	20.4
225	-6.2	-2.6	2.8	1.2	2313.3	2.072	1532.6	0.275	48.4	20.5
250	-8.6	-3.3	3.5	1.3	2282.2	2.044	1491.6	0.308	54.1	20.7
275	-11.4	-4.0	4.2	1.5	2251.3	2.016	1451.5	0.341	60.0	20.8
300	-14.7	-4.7	5.1	1.6	2220.7	1.989	1412.3	0.374	65.9	21.0
325	-18.4	-5.4	6.0	1.8	2190.3	1.962	1373.9	0.408	71.9	21.1
350	-22.6	-6.2	7.0	1.9	2160.2	1.935	1336.4	0.443	77.9	21.3
375	-27.2	-6.9	8.1	2.1	2130.3	1.908	1299.7	0.478	84.1	21.4
400	-32.3	-7.7	9.2	2.2	2100.7	1.882	1263.8	0.513	90.3	21.6
425	-37.9	-8.5	10.5	2.4	2071.3	1.855	1228.7	0.549	96.7	21.7
450	-44.0	-9.3	11.8	2.5	2042.1	1.829	1194.3	0.586	103.1	21.9
475	-50.6	-10.2	13.3	2.7	2013.2	1.803	1160.7	0.623	109.6	22.0
500	-57.7	-11.0	14.8	2.8	1984.4	1.777	1127.8	0.660	116.2	22.2
525	-65.4	-11.9	16.5	3.0	1955.9	1.752	1095.6	0.698	122.9	22.4
550	-73.7	-12.8	18.2	3.2	1927.6	1.727	1064.1	0.737	129.7	22.5
575	-82.6	-13.7	20.0	3.3	1899.5	1.701	1033.3	0.776	136.6	22.7
600	-92.0	-14.6	21.9	3.5	1871.6	1.676	1003.2	0.816	143.6	22.9
625	-102.1	-15.6	24.0	3.7	1843.9	1.652	973.7	0.856	150.7	23.0
650	-112.8	-16.6	26.1	3.8	1816.3	1.627	944.8	0.897	157.9	23.2
675	-124.2	-17.6	28.4	4.0	1789.0	1.602	916.6	0.939	165.2	23.4
700	-136.3	-18.6	30.7	4.2	1761.8	1.578	889.0	0.981	172.7	23.6
725	-149.0	-19.6	33.2	4.4	1734.9	1.554	862.0	1.024	180.2	23.7
750	-162.5	-20.7	35.8	4.6	1708.1	1.530	835.5	1.068	187.9	23.9
775	-176.7	-21.8	38.6	4.8	1681.5	1.506	809.7	1.112	195.7	24.1
800	-191.7	-22.9	41.4	4.9	1655.0	1.482	784.4	1.157	203.6	24.3
825	-207.5	-24.0	44.4	5.1	1628.8	1.459	759.7	1.202	211.6	24.5
850	-224.1	-25.2	47.5	5.3	1602.7	1.436	735.6	1.249	219.8	24.7
875	-241.5	-26.4	50.7	5.5	1576.8	1.412	712.0	1.296	228.1	24.9
900	-259.9	-27.6	54.1	5.7	1551.0	1.389	689.0	1.344	236.5	25.1
925	-279.1	-28.8	57.6	5.9	1525.5	1.366	666.5	1.393	245.1	25.3
950	-299.2	-30.1	61.3	6.2	1500.1	1.344	644.5	1.442	253.9	25.5
975	-320.4	-31.4	65.1	6.4	1475.0	1.321	623.0	1.493	262.7	25.7
1000	-342.5	-32.7	69.0	6.6	1450.0	1.299	602.1	1.544	271.8	26.0


Now go f uck off Troll.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Code
Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer:	Nosler	Description:	Accubond Long Range Spitzer (G7)
Caliber:	0.264 in	Weight:	129.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient:	0.285 G7 (ASM)		
Muzzle Velocity:	2600.0 ft/s	Distance to Chronograph:	10.0 ft
Sight Height:	1.50 in	Sight Offset:	0.00 in
Zero Height:	0.00 in	Zero Offset:	0.00 in
Windage:	0.000 MOA	Elevation:	0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle:	0.0 deg	Cant Angle:	0.0 deg
Wind Speed:	10.0 mph	Wind Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Speed:	10.0 mph	Target Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Height:	12.0 in		
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0 %	Altitude:	5280.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius:	5.0 in		
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range:	No	Target Relative Drops:	Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing:	No	Include Extra Rows:	No
Column 1 Units:	1.00 in	Column 2 Units:	1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers:	No		
Output Data
Elevation:	3.965 MOA	Windage:	0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density:	0.06296 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR:	327 yd	Maximum PBR Zero:	277 yd
Range of Maximum Height:	151 yd	Energy at Maximum PBR:	1370.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density:	0.264 lb/in²		
Calculated Table
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	2604.5	2.333	1942.6	0.000	0.0	***
25	-0.6	-2.4	0.0	0.1	2571.2	2.303	1893.3	0.029	5.1	19.5
50	-0.1	-0.1	0.1	0.3	2538.1	2.273	1844.9	0.058	10.3	19.6
75	0.1	0.2	0.3	0.4	2505.3	2.244	1797.5	0.088	15.5	19.7
100	-0.0	-0.0	0.5	0.5	2472.7	2.215	1751.0	0.118	20.8	19.9
125	-0.5	-0.4	0.8	0.6	2440.3	2.186	1705.5	0.149	26.2	20.0
150	-1.3	-0.9	1.2	0.8	2408.2	2.157	1660.9	0.180	31.6	20.1
175	-2.6	-1.4	1.7	0.9	2376.3	2.128	1617.2	0.211	37.1	20.3
200	-4.2	-2.0	2.2	1.0	2344.7	2.100	1574.5	0.243	42.7	20.4
225	-6.2	-2.6	2.8	1.2	2313.3	2.072	1532.6	0.275	48.4	20.5
250	-8.6	-3.3	3.5	1.3	2282.2	2.044	1491.6	0.308	54.1	20.7
275	-11.4	-4.0	4.2	1.5	2251.3	2.016	1451.5	0.341	60.0	20.8
300	-14.7	-4.7	5.1	1.6	2220.7	1.989	1412.3	0.374	65.9	21.0
325	-18.4	-5.4	6.0	1.8	2190.3	1.962	1373.9	0.408	71.9	21.1
350	-22.6	-6.2	7.0	1.9	2160.2	1.935	1336.4	0.443	77.9	21.3
375	-27.2	-6.9	8.1	2.1	2130.3	1.908	1299.7	0.478	84.1	21.4
400	-32.3	-7.7	9.2	2.2	2100.7	1.882	1263.8	0.513	90.3	21.6
425	-37.9	-8.5	10.5	2.4	2071.3	1.855	1228.7	0.549	96.7	21.7
450	-44.0	-9.3	11.8	2.5	2042.1	1.829	1194.3	0.586	103.1	21.9
475	-50.6	-10.2	13.3	2.7	2013.2	1.803	1160.7	0.623	109.6	22.0
500	-57.7	-11.0	14.8	2.8	1984.4	1.777	1127.8	0.660	116.2	22.2
525	-65.4	-11.9	16.5	3.0	1955.9	1.752	1095.6	0.698	122.9	22.4
550	-73.7	-12.8	18.2	3.2	1927.6	1.727	1064.1	0.737	129.7	22.5
575	-82.6	-13.7	20.0	3.3	1899.5	1.701	1033.3	0.776	136.6	22.7
600	-92.0	-14.6	21.9	3.5	1871.6	1.676	1003.2	0.816	143.6	22.9
625	-102.1	-15.6	24.0	3.7	1843.9	1.652	973.7	0.856	150.7	23.0
650	-112.8	-16.6	26.1	3.8	1816.3	1.627	944.8	0.897	157.9	23.2
675	-124.2	-17.6	28.4	4.0	1789.0	1.602	916.6	0.939	165.2	23.4
700	-136.3	-18.6	30.7	4.2	1761.8	1.578	889.0	0.981	172.7	23.6
725	-149.0	-19.6	33.2	4.4	1734.9	1.554	862.0	1.024	180.2	23.7
750	-162.5	-20.7	35.8	4.6	1708.1	1.530	835.5	1.068	187.9	23.9
775	-176.7	-21.8	38.6	4.8	1681.5	1.506	809.7	1.112	195.7	24.1
800	-191.7	-22.9	41.4	4.9	1655.0	1.482	784.4	1.157	203.6	24.3
825	-207.5	-24.0	44.4	5.1	1628.8	1.459	759.7	1.202	211.6	24.5
850	-224.1	-25.2	47.5	5.3	1602.7	1.436	735.6	1.249	219.8	24.7
875	-241.5	-26.4	50.7	5.5	1576.8	1.412	712.0	1.296	228.1	24.9
900	-259.9	-27.6	54.1	5.7	1551.0	1.389	689.0	1.344	236.5	25.1
925	-279.1	-28.8	57.6	5.9	1525.5	1.366	666.5	1.393	245.1	25.3
950	-299.2	-30.1	61.3	6.2	1500.1	1.344	644.5	1.442	253.9	25.5
975	-320.4	-31.4	65.1	6.4	1475.0	1.321	623.0	1.493	262.7	25.7
1000	-342.5	-32.7	69.0	6.6	1450.0	1.299	602.1	1.544	271.8	26.0


Now go f uck off Troll.

Standard Dumbshlt post - posting data for an imaginary muzzle velocity as "proof".

Next you'll post some screenshots from your Xbox.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge much past 200 yds.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Not at all.

I could load to that velocity without much problem.

Of course, I actually know a bit about reloading and achieving maximum performance out of a cartridge for platform.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by jimmyp
Sometimes I think DLA is a special person other times I think he just wants attention, and then other times I think he is someone’s sock puppet. Then I go back to his love of Keltec and the special person moniker fits better. He has nothing but personal attacks when he defends his position, so he is probably a democrat as well. I would be delighted if he would post a picture of something he has shot, or some gun he owns.


This forum is a rough and tumble mix of dumbshlts, not-so-brights and normal folks. Dumbshlts think they know things and they attract not-so-brights as cheerleaders. Normal people are entertained and usually learn a few things along the way. Anytime the dumbshlts are pushed to examine their "facts" - they attack. Usually with stupid-assed posts like yours.

"The information's out there," Suit reminds his mentor: "All you have to do is let it in."
- Deputy Suit in Jesse Stone "No Remorse"


DLA, in true form instead of replying with any logic, fact, or picture you post that mine is a "stupid ass post". You got nothing except what you read on the internet. You have never done anything, shot any animal, might not even own a gun or if you do maybe a keltec. I cannot say your a moron as your able to type and are reasonably lucid, and yet you post things that you have no idea about, spouting them as "truth". On the other hand people post up pictures of dead animals, killed by the exact caliber and cartridge that you read on the internet somewhere that is worthless. Your kind of a sad pathetic person, stirring the pot to get in a conversation with men that actually have a life and actually hunt, kill animals, shoot guns of which you have only read about on the internet. You are a sad, pathetic little man.


Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by jimmyp, struggling to express his true feelings..
You are my hero and I want to have your babies..

Sorry, thats more Antelope Sniper's thing..

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,499
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,499
Quote
Dumbshlts think they know things



That's....well...rich...

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Code
Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer:	Nosler	Description:	Accubond Long Range Spitzer (G7)
Caliber:	0.264 in	Weight:	129.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient:	0.285 G7 (ASM)		
Muzzle Velocity:	2600.0 ft/s	Distance to Chronograph:	10.0 ft
Sight Height:	1.50 in	Sight Offset:	0.00 in
Zero Height:	0.00 in	Zero Offset:	0.00 in
Windage:	0.000 MOA	Elevation:	0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle:	0.0 deg	Cant Angle:	0.0 deg
Wind Speed:	10.0 mph	Wind Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Speed:	10.0 mph	Target Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Height:	12.0 in		
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0 %	Altitude:	5280.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius:	5.0 in		
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range:	No	Target Relative Drops:	Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing:	No	Include Extra Rows:	No
Column 1 Units:	1.00 in	Column 2 Units:	1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers:	No		
Output Data
Elevation:	3.965 MOA	Windage:	0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density:	0.06296 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR:	327 yd	Maximum PBR Zero:	277 yd
Range of Maximum Height:	151 yd	Energy at Maximum PBR:	1370.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density:	0.264 lb/in²		
Calculated Table
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	2604.5	2.333	1942.6	0.000	0.0	***
25	-0.6	-2.4	0.0	0.1	2571.2	2.303	1893.3	0.029	5.1	19.5
50	-0.1	-0.1	0.1	0.3	2538.1	2.273	1844.9	0.058	10.3	19.6
75	0.1	0.2	0.3	0.4	2505.3	2.244	1797.5	0.088	15.5	19.7
100	-0.0	-0.0	0.5	0.5	2472.7	2.215	1751.0	0.118	20.8	19.9
125	-0.5	-0.4	0.8	0.6	2440.3	2.186	1705.5	0.149	26.2	20.0
150	-1.3	-0.9	1.2	0.8	2408.2	2.157	1660.9	0.180	31.6	20.1
175	-2.6	-1.4	1.7	0.9	2376.3	2.128	1617.2	0.211	37.1	20.3
200	-4.2	-2.0	2.2	1.0	2344.7	2.100	1574.5	0.243	42.7	20.4
225	-6.2	-2.6	2.8	1.2	2313.3	2.072	1532.6	0.275	48.4	20.5
250	-8.6	-3.3	3.5	1.3	2282.2	2.044	1491.6	0.308	54.1	20.7
275	-11.4	-4.0	4.2	1.5	2251.3	2.016	1451.5	0.341	60.0	20.8
300	-14.7	-4.7	5.1	1.6	2220.7	1.989	1412.3	0.374	65.9	21.0
325	-18.4	-5.4	6.0	1.8	2190.3	1.962	1373.9	0.408	71.9	21.1
350	-22.6	-6.2	7.0	1.9	2160.2	1.935	1336.4	0.443	77.9	21.3
375	-27.2	-6.9	8.1	2.1	2130.3	1.908	1299.7	0.478	84.1	21.4
400	-32.3	-7.7	9.2	2.2	2100.7	1.882	1263.8	0.513	90.3	21.6
425	-37.9	-8.5	10.5	2.4	2071.3	1.855	1228.7	0.549	96.7	21.7
450	-44.0	-9.3	11.8	2.5	2042.1	1.829	1194.3	0.586	103.1	21.9
475	-50.6	-10.2	13.3	2.7	2013.2	1.803	1160.7	0.623	109.6	22.0
500	-57.7	-11.0	14.8	2.8	1984.4	1.777	1127.8	0.660	116.2	22.2
525	-65.4	-11.9	16.5	3.0	1955.9	1.752	1095.6	0.698	122.9	22.4
550	-73.7	-12.8	18.2	3.2	1927.6	1.727	1064.1	0.737	129.7	22.5
575	-82.6	-13.7	20.0	3.3	1899.5	1.701	1033.3	0.776	136.6	22.7
600	-92.0	-14.6	21.9	3.5	1871.6	1.676	1003.2	0.816	143.6	22.9
625	-102.1	-15.6	24.0	3.7	1843.9	1.652	973.7	0.856	150.7	23.0
650	-112.8	-16.6	26.1	3.8	1816.3	1.627	944.8	0.897	157.9	23.2
675	-124.2	-17.6	28.4	4.0	1789.0	1.602	916.6	0.939	165.2	23.4
700	-136.3	-18.6	30.7	4.2	1761.8	1.578	889.0	0.981	172.7	23.6
725	-149.0	-19.6	33.2	4.4	1734.9	1.554	862.0	1.024	180.2	23.7
750	-162.5	-20.7	35.8	4.6	1708.1	1.530	835.5	1.068	187.9	23.9
775	-176.7	-21.8	38.6	4.8	1681.5	1.506	809.7	1.112	195.7	24.1
800	-191.7	-22.9	41.4	4.9	1655.0	1.482	784.4	1.157	203.6	24.3
825	-207.5	-24.0	44.4	5.1	1628.8	1.459	759.7	1.202	211.6	24.5
850	-224.1	-25.2	47.5	5.3	1602.7	1.436	735.6	1.249	219.8	24.7
875	-241.5	-26.4	50.7	5.5	1576.8	1.412	712.0	1.296	228.1	24.9
900	-259.9	-27.6	54.1	5.7	1551.0	1.389	689.0	1.344	236.5	25.1
925	-279.1	-28.8	57.6	5.9	1525.5	1.366	666.5	1.393	245.1	25.3
950	-299.2	-30.1	61.3	6.2	1500.1	1.344	644.5	1.442	253.9	25.5
975	-320.4	-31.4	65.1	6.4	1475.0	1.321	623.0	1.493	262.7	25.7
1000	-342.5	-32.7	69.0	6.6	1450.0	1.299	602.1	1.544	271.8	26.0


Now go f uck off Troll.

+1


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by jimmyp, struggling to express his true feelings..
You are my hero and I want to have your babies..

Sorry, thats more Antelope Sniper's thing..

as usual you have nothing. Sad and pathetic little man.


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Someone has gone through life not knowing that smart pills are actually rabbit turds.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,099
E
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
E
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by skeen
As they say, a picture equals a 1,000 words...One of my sons with a Larue 6.5 Grendel and Hornady 123grain SSTs.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]





Must've been inside 200 yards...

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,547
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by jimmyp
Sometimes I think DLA is a special person other times I think he just wants attention, and then other times I think he is someone’s sock puppet. Then I go back to his love of Keltec and the special person moniker fits better. He has nothing but personal attacks when he defends his position, so he is probably a democrat as well. I would be delighted if he would post a picture of something he has shot, or some gun he owns.


This forum is a rough and tumble mix of dumbshlts, not-so-brights and normal folks. Dumbshlts think they know things and they attract not-so-brights as cheerleaders. Normal people are entertained and usually learn a few things along the way. Anytime the dumbshlts are pushed to examine their "facts" - they attack. Usually with stupid-assed posts like yours.

"The information's out there," Suit reminds his mentor: "All you have to do is let it in."
- Deputy Suit in Jesse Stone "No Remorse"


"dumbshlts, not-so-brights"

Not sure that you could be qualified to analyze anyone on this forum better than you may analyze yourself. Expect that is who you are referring to and in that case I feel you have done a fairly good job of describing yourself! Some how we still put up with you!


love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control

& Proverbs 21:19
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,585
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,585
dla? Dumb Lard Ass?

regardless, a troll and not a bright one...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Seafire, too stupid to participate in a meaningful way but wanting to join in with his fellow not-so-brights wrote:
dla? Dumb Lard Ass?

regardless, a troll and not a bright one...


Just one more of your high-quality posts - explains how you got 32k+.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Don't feed the troll.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by NVhntr, trying to appeal to his fanboys, types something so obviously stupid that a response is required
Don't feed the troll.

So anyone who disagrees with your cliche is a troll? Is this how you protect your ignorance from new thinking?

Last edited by dla; 11/28/19.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by NVhntr, trying to appeal to his fanboys, types something so obviously stupid that a response is required
Don't feed the troll.

So anyone who disagrees with your cliche is a troll? Is this how you protect your ignorance from new thinking?



The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias in which people believe that they are smarter and more capable than they really are. Essentially, low ability people do not possess the skills needed to recognize their own incompetence. The combination of poor self-awareness and low cognitive ability leads them to overestimate their own capabilities.

The term lends a scientific name and explanation to a problem that many people immediately recognize—that fools are blind to their own foolishness. As Charles Darwin wrote in his book The Descent of Man, "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."

An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect
This phenomenon is something you have likely experienced in real life, perhaps on the Campfire AR and Tactical Rifles Forum. Throughout the course of the 6.5 Grendel thread, a member of begins spouting off on the topic at length, boldly proclaiming that he is correct and that everyone else's opinion is stupid, uninformed, and just plain wrong. It may be plainly evident to everyone in the room that this person has no idea what he is talking about, yet he prattles on, blithely oblivious to his own ignorance.

The effect is named after researchers David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the two social psychologists who first described it. In their original study on this psychological phenomenon, they performed a series of four investigations.

People who scored in the lowest percentiles on tests of grammar, humor, and logic also tended to dramatically overestimate how well they had performed (their actual test scores placed them in the 12th percentile, but they estimated that their performance placed them in the 62nd percentile).

The Research
In one experiment, for example, Dunning and Kruger asked their 65 participants to rate how funny different jokes were. Some of the participants were exceptionally poor at determining what other people would find funny—yet these same subjects described themselves as excellent judges of humor.

Incompetent people, the researchers found, are not only poor performers, they are also unable to accurately assess and recognize the quality of their own work. This is the reason why students who earn failing scores on exams sometimes feel that they deserved a much higher score. They overestimate their own knowledge and ability and are incapable of seeing the poorness of their performance.

Low performers are unable to recognize the skill and competence levels of other people, which is part of the reason why they consistently view themselves as better, more capable, and more knowledgeable than others.

"In many cases, incompetence does not leave people disoriented, perplexed, or cautious," wrote David Dunning in an article for Pacific Standard. "Instead, the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge."

This effect can have a profound impact on what people believe, the decisions they make, and the actions they take. In one study, Dunning and Ehrlinger found that women performed equally to men on a science quiz, and yet women underestimated their performance because they believed they had less scientific reasoning ability than men. The researchers also found that as a result of this belief, these women were more likely to refuse to enter a science competition.

Dunning and his colleagues have also performed experiments in which they ask respondents if they are familiar with a variety of terms related to subjects including politics, biology, physics, and geography. Along with genuine subject-relevant concepts, they interjected completely made-up terms.

In one such study, approximately 90 percent of respondents claimed that they had at least some knowledge of the made up terms. Consistent with other findings related to the Dunning-Kruger effect, the more familiar participants claimed that they were with a topic, the more likely they were to also claim they were familiar with the meaningless terms. As Dunning has suggested, the very trouble with ignorance is that it can feel just like expertise.

Causes of the Dunning-Kruger Effect
So what explains this psychological effect? Are some people simply too dense, to be blunt, to know how dim-witted they are? Dunning and Kruger suggest that this phenomenon stems from what they refer to as a "dual burden." People are not only incompetent; their incompetence robs them of the mental ability to realize just how inept they are.

Incompetent people tend to:

Overestimate their own skill levels
Fail to recognize the genuine skill and expertise of other people
Fail to recognize their own mistakes and lack of skill
Dunning has pointed out that the very knowledge and skills necessary to be good at a task are the exact same qualities that a person needs to recognize that they are not good at that task. So if a person lacks those abilities, they remain not only bad at that task, but ignorant to their own inability.

An Inability to Recognize Lack of Skill and Mistakes
Dunning suggests that deficits in skill and expertise create a two-pronged problem. First, these deficits cause people to perform poorly in the domain in which they are incompetent. Secondly, their erroneous and deficient knowledge makes them unable to recognize their mistakes.

A Lack of Metacognition
The Dunning-Kruger effect is also related to difficulties with metacognition, or the ability to step back and look at one's own behavior and abilities from outside of oneself. People are often only able to evaluate themselves from their own limited and highly subjective point of view. From this limited perspective they seem highly skilled, knowledgeable, and superior to others. Because of this, people sometimes struggle to have a more realistic view of their own abilities.
A Little Knowledge Can Lead to Overconfidence
Another contributing factor is that sometimes a tiny bit of knowledge on a subject can lead people to mistakenly believe that they know all there is to know about it. As the old saying goes, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. A person might have the slimmest bit of awareness about a subject, yet thanks to the Dunning-Kruger effect, believe that he or she is an expert.

Other factors that can contribute to the effect include our use of heuristics, or mental shortcuts that allow us to make decisions quickly, and our tendency to seek out patterns even where none exist. Our minds are primed to try to make sense of the disparate array of information we deal with on a daily basis. As we try to cut through the confusion and interpret our own abilities and performance within our individual worlds, it is perhaps not surprising that we sometimes fail so completely to accurately judge how well we do.

Who Is Affected by the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
So who is affected by the Dunning-Kruger effect? Unfortunately, we all are. This is because no matter how informed or experienced we are, everyone has areas in which they are uninformed and incompetent. You might be smart and skilled in many areas, but no one is an expert at everything.

The reality is that everyone is susceptible to this phenomenon, and in fact, most of us probably experience it with surprising regularity. People who are genuine experts in one area may mistakenly believe that their intelligence and knowledge carry over into other areas in which they are less familiar. A brilliant scientist, for example, might be a very poor writer. In order for the scientist to recognize their own lack of skill, they needs to possess a good working knowledge of things such as grammar and composition. Because those are lacking, the scientist in this example also lacks the ability to recognize their own poor performance.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is not synonymous with low IQ. As awareness of the term has increased, its misapplication as a synonym for "stupid" has also grown. It is, after all, easy to judge others and believe that such things simply do not apply to you.

So if the incompetent tend to think they are experts, what do genuine experts think of their own abilities? Dunning and Kruger found that those at the high end of the competence spectrum did hold more realistic views of their own knowledge and capabilities. However, these experts actually tended to underestimate their own abilities relative to how others did.

Essentially, these top scoring individuals know that they are better than the average, but they are not convinced of just how superior their performance is compared to others. The problem in this case is not that experts don't know how well-informed they are; it's that they tend to believe that everyone else is knowledgeable as well.

Is There Any Way for DLA not to be such an ass?


So is there anything that can minimize this phenomenon? Is there a point at which the incompetent actually recognize their own ineptitude? "We are all engines of misbelief," Dunning has suggested. While we are all prone to experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect, learning more about how the mind works and the mistakes we are all susceptible to might be one step toward correcting such patterns.

Dunning and Kruger suggest that as experience with a subject increases, confidence typically declines to more realistic levels. As people learn more about the topic of interest, they begin to recognize their own lack of knowledge and ability. Then as people gain more information and actually become experts on a topic, their confidence levels begin to improve once again.

So what can you do to gain a more realistic assessment of your own abilities in a particular area if you are not sure you can trust your own self-assessments?

Keep learning and practicing. Instead of assuming you know all there is to know about a subject, keep digging deeper. Once you gain greater knowledge of a topic, the more likely you are to recognize how much there is still to learn. This can combat the tendency to assume you’re an expert, even if you're not.

Ask other people how you're doing. Another effective strategy involves asking others for constructive criticism. While it can sometimes be difficult to hear, such feedback can provide valuable insights into how others perceive your abilities.
Question what you know. Even as you learn more and get feedback, it can be easy to only pay attention to things that confirm what you think you already know. This is an example of another type of psychological bias known as the confirmation bias. In order to minimize this tendency, keep challenging your beliefs and expectations. Seek out information that challenges your ideas.
A Word From Verywell

The Dunning-Kruger effect is one of many cognitive biases that can affect your behaviors and decisions, from the mundane to the life-changing. While it may be easier to recognize the phenomenon in others, it is important to remember that it is something that impacts everyone. By understanding the underlying causes that contribute to this psychological bias, you might be better able to spot these tendencies in yourself and find ways to overcome them.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

So who is affected by the Dunning-Kruger effect? Unfortunately, we all are.


And that is how these forums can benefit - examining poorly formed opinions.

Today the AR-15 based "wimp" cartridges are all the rage. That and a few Sniper movies and suddenly everybody wants to worry about staying supersonic past 1300yds. But problems crop up when folks try taking animals at long ranges with these "wimp" cartridges.

Similar thing happened about 30 years ago after the movie "Quiggley Down Under". Sales of 45-70/90/110 Sharps replicas soared. Guys lined up to pay $2000+ for a rifle that they believed would enable them to launch 500+grain chunk of lead 1000 yards.

The difference is that if an animal was hit with a 45-50 cal 405-540 grain bullet, the animal was very likely to die fairly fast. But hits are hard with the rainbow trajectories, and iron sights. But hits with wimp cartridges, ( scopes, rangefinders, etc.) are easier, but the tiny bullets do not make big holes.




Last edited by dla; 11/28/19.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Where did you read that?
We're all pretty sure that it's not from your personal hands on experience.
Maybe instead of looking at your Reloading for Dummies manual and mentally masturbating to visions of shooting a real gun you should get your ass of the couch and get out and do something other than trolling this forum.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
i'll supply the halftime entertainment while the teams are re-strategizing



Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 512
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 512
I admit to being new to the AR game having just put together a Grendel upper on a Colt lower but I can't seem to find any purpose in the original post. I think if a person isn't sharing something constructive but just trying to get other riled up then the post is jsut a waste of time and forum space. I guess I am pretty simple in that I just don't see the reson in slamming a cartridge like this. If a person doesn't like a particular round or how it performs, don't use it but don't spend a lot of energy and time badmouthing something that others use and appreciate.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by djones
i'll supply the halftime entertainment while the teams are re-strategizing





That was some fine shooting.

I'm guessing it wasn't DLA.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
thanks. they never venture too far from the brush. it helps to know what they're going to do when the shooting starts.... you know... begin with the end in mind grin

here are some hilites from last month...


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Very nice.

That's a lot of sausage.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Originally Posted by djones
i'll supply the halftime entertainment while the teams are re-strategizing




Dang!

That could pass for the work of Prince Whatshisface Von Albrecht on Wild Boar Fever! Nice shootin'.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Did you sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night?
😛


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
J
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
Well my young daughter got her first deer today and with a 6.5 Grendel. It took more than one, but the first one was fatal the deer just didn't know it. Sadly we didn't prove whether the round was good past 200 yards. The first shot hit the on shoulder breaking it, angled through the lung, destroyed the liver and ended up somewhere in the paunch. That was a 100g NBT. 2nd shot was ~200 yards away and made soup of both lungs. 3rd shot from 80 yards and took most of the does head off when it lifted said head. In over 40 years of hunting I have seen deer do similar things with larger rounds.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Well if you keep shooting, deer generally let you. We all take time to bleed out. Most folks don't get to see how long it takes a lung shot deer to actually die. The deer runs a bit and is out of sight.

Even a bang flop, if you watch the lungs rise and fall, it takes time.

Good job on your daughter! Congrats in order there.

We tend to just leave deer alone after the first shot these days. Maybe we should keep shooting but its how we roll.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
J
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,116
Thanks. Deer was still standing after the first shot and I didn't want to chase it, especially onto land we didn't have permission so took the 2nd shot. I didn't want her to see it suffer at all so did the finisher. But she made all the shots with just a little coaching from me. As she said, "Life is good." and "This is a good day." I think she is hooked.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Thats excellent!! And especially for kids, keep shooting till its down.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,309
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,309
Awesome videos djones!

What scope are you using? I’m thinking of putting a night Vision scope on my new AR10 build..... your video is more encouragement. 👍


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
It’s likely some of us were shooting things with ARs before dla was born, but he could just be a late bloomer.....or never even bud out.

Just about every chambering in an AR that I know of fills some specific niche.....whether your’s or not, there’s a fit for it. I don’t stretch AR15s much for hunting, as I feel they’re compromised after 300, vs other hunting options. Doesn’t mean they won’t work.....they just aren’t as well suited for it as an AR10-sized semi or any other gun taking not-AR15 cartridge offerings. .....but sometimes it’s about seeing where you can go with a platform, and more power to them.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
I"ve never used a 15 in 223 past about 556 yards on deer. And it worked very well on that shot too.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
If there's any single absolute truth when it comes to hunting in general, the headstamp doesn't do the work. The bullet does. It's all about the bullet: which one, where it hits, and at what speed.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
Sure....but that perfect bullet can’t defeat gravity, wind, or flesh without those caveats of velocity and accuracy.....so barrels, cases, and chambers are still the engines by which these great bullets do anything, and some have better rides than others,

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Those things definitely affect WHERE the bullet hits, and you have to factor in the Indian/arrow argument if you're going to break it down in depth...but that does not negate the simple fact that it's what bullet, where, and how fast. And if you want to make the argument that the Grendel can't deliver past 200 yards, you'd be making a very silly statement. It has its limitations for sure, but it sure isn't limited to inside 200 yards if you're using the right components, a decent rifle, and can shoot.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Sure....but that perfect bullet can’t defeat gravity, wind, or flesh


Except that's exactly what a better bullet does compared to a lesser bullet. A more aerodynamic bullet does a better job of resisting gravity and wind, and retains more velocity at distance. If that same bullet is designed to perform better on meat at that velocity, then it does a better job in flesh too. Headstamps have very little to do with it; putting the right bullet in the right place at the right speed is everything.

This argument is why I've lost patience with so many of the 6.8 SPC fans; so many of those guys want to argue that their favorite headstamp is best instead of considering what really matters. Guys who want to argue about a particular platform (for example - "the AR15 is only good to 300 yards") are not much better.

Last edited by Yondering; 12/04/19.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
Y’all should read what I posted again. I mentioned ZERO about any particular headstamp, and I merely intoned the very same things y’all seem to be wanting to argue about.... just pointing out the obvious caveats of shooting. I have yet to offer anything against the Grendel or it’s bullets in this thread. Seems there’s some insecurity over something imagined.

Let’s put my whole quote here, not just the misused part needed to keep an argument going:

Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Sure....but that perfect bullet can’t defeat gravity, wind, or flesh without those caveats of velocity and accuracy.....so barrels, cases, and chambers are still the engines by which these great bullets do anything, and some have better rides than others,



Best bullet in the world just sits there on my loading bench, unless I strap it into a ride, and some rides are better than others....there’s lots of cases a bullet will sit in, and lots of powders to put behind it. NONE of that says bullets arent the part that does the important work outside the pipe. It’s just saying that you can’t completely ignore the ride. If you could, we’d be shooting 147s in a Grendel.....cuz they’re better bullets than a 123......for attempting to mitigate gravity, wind, and such. However, case and velocity matter just a little bit. Some packages work more efficiently together than others, is all.

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/04/19.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Yes. That's why W-H-E-R-E the bullet hits is important, as is the speed at which it hits.

FMTT.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Sure....but that perfect bullet can’t defeat gravity, wind, or flesh without those caveats of velocity and accuracy.....so barrels, cases, and chambers are still the engines by which these great bullets do anything, and some have better rides than others,


FYTT

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/04/19.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Are you chronically obtuse, or just having an episode?


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,385
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,385
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by djones
i'll supply the halftime entertainment while the teams are re-strategizing





That was some fine shooting.

I'm guessing it wasn't DLA.

Nope.they do well to miss the floor when pissing.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Awesome videos djones!

What scope are you using? I’m thinking of putting a night Vision scope on my new AR10 build..... your video is more encouragement. 👍


thanks. i'm actually using a thermal scope, but here's a pic thru nite viz.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

it's good but needs moonlight or an ir light on dark nights to really see well. the thermal scope is a trijicon mark 3 with 4.5x magnification. they have digital zoom, but the screen blurs the more you magnify it... like enlarging a 640k pic on a computer screen.

don't mean to crap on the grendel craping thread, but since we're on the subj of therm... here are a few shots from the other night.





Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
Do you always project, or just have reading comprehension issues? LOL

I don’t mind having a discussion, but if things keep being misrepresented or run away on some logical fallacy, then you gotta repeat things/refer to the facts sometimes.

Great videos

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/05/19.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by djones


don't mean to crap on the grendel craping thread, but since we're on the subj of therm... here are a few shots from the other night.



I have to admit, I'm pretty jealous of your thermal scopes. I'd like to pick one up someday, but it's not in the cards right now.

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
The point I'm trying to get across here is that my statement needs no further qualification. It's "what bullet, where it hits, and at what velocity." No modification to that thought is necessary.

I'll agree with you in that having a good cartridge and a good platform, along with attendant skills makes putting the bullet where you want much easier, though.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
That's damned good shooting vid a!


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Rebarreled Grendel, ready to test.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
I'm going to say that a different way to say it is use the bullet inside its design parameters. There are many parameters. Its why I can shoot subs in the whisper to 200 plus yards and they always expand and cut a big hole. Change bullet, everything changes.

The ability to hit is knowledge and practice. Some rounds make it easier, but generally speaking the only ways it gets easier is louder and more thump on the shoulder in general. If comparing apples to apples.

Regardless DLA is a fool.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
LOL...see, we’re just saying the same thing from different angles.

It get wrapped around purposes and packages with most of my rifle looniness......then I end up trying to do stuff outside what I had in mind for something, just because?.....just because easy isn’t as fun to shoot sometimes as the fringes.

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/05/19.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by rost495
I'm going to say that a different way to say it is use the bullet inside its design parameters. There are many parameters. Its why I can shoot subs in the whisper to 200 plus yards and they always expand and cut a big hole. Change bullet, everything changes.

The ability to hit is knowledge and practice. Some rounds make it easier, but generally speaking the only ways it gets easier is louder and more thump on the shoulder in general. If comparing apples to apples.

Regardless DLA is a fool.

Yes, to the mental midget, your post sounds correct.

Just because Chuck Norris can be deadly with a BB gun doesn't mean a BB gun is the right tool. Now if you strain real hard, you might understand.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt cartridge much past 200 yards.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,309
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,309
Djones, Thanks for your reply and the great videos. 👍

PS...good shooting.....what caliber?


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
LOL...see, we’re just saying the same thing from different angles.

It get wrapped around purposes and packages with most of my rifle looniness......then I end up trying to do stuff outside what I had in mind for something, just because?.....just because easy isn’t as fun to shoot sometimes as the fringes.



Kinda sorta.

I'll admit my process of choosing rifles and bullets is a bit chaotic. I might get a hankering to acquire a rifle chambered in some particular cartridge and then shop for an appealing rifle, or I might get a hankering for a particular rifle and then shop for it in an appealing chambering. But however that goes, I always have a purpose (for justification's sake) in mind and a bullet suitable for that purpose. I'm stubborn about bullets and won't abandon a choice until and unless it frustrates the devil outa me. I'm sure everyone has a fairly unique approach to all that.

I'll betcha we fully agree that DLA is completely FOS, though.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,241
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,241
If the Grendel cant get it done past 200 yards it is a product of the shooter not the cartridge.


It isn't energy that kills, its holes.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

What Djones is showing vs. saying is the 300 Hamm’r is pretty much out performing many of the AR chamberings - maybe even the 6.8 SPC... not to mention the Grendel.

The Hamm’r mirrors the 30-30 performance pretty closely, it’s more the terminal performance of the rig that people like.
Frankly the 6.8 SPC does a lot more meat damanage that I thought it ever would, so I’m betting the 300 Hamm’r is really a better round for under 250.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by RMiller2
If the Grendel cant get it done past 200 yards it is a product of the shooter not the cartridge.

Thats actually an intelligent question.

The answer is both and more of course. Real hunting shots are a compromise, i.e. not as perfect as shooting at paper from a bench. Bullet placement is often "off" a little from ideal because (a) the animal doesnt cooperate and (b) the hunter can't break the shot nicely. I'm going give a wild-ass guess that 80% of hunting shots are the "compromise".

Empirically, we know that increasing the impact velocity of a bullet increases the damage it does to the animal. And when the velocity exceeds a certain threshold, the damage is more than just the frontal area of the bullet crushing tissue. This isn't news, we've been using this since 1925 when the 270 Winchester was introduced.

But today folks are trying to wring all they can from "wimp" cartridges - cartridges limited by AR-15 design constraints. And these cartridges aren't even 30-30 power level at the muzzle. So these cartridges don't provide much "extra" to help make a quick kill with the "compromise" shots. Any margin the Grendel had is pretty much gone much past 200 yards, and "compromise" can mean lost animals. OTH, the 270 Winchester for example, will still turn a deer to mush at 200 yards - offering much more margin for those "compromise" shots.

Yes there are stories of an Inuit grandma taking a polar bear with a 22lr. But the are a lot more stories of Inuit's encased in bear scat. "Use the right tool" - Anton Chigurh from 'No Country for Old Men'.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by RMiller2
If the Grendel cant get it done past 200 yards it is a product of the shooter not the cartridge.

Thats actually an intelligent question.


Except that it was, you know, a statement.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
Many impressive kills, on elk and smaller game, beyond 400 yds IIRC, on the Grendel forum........

Me, I would limit to 300 yds on game larger than deer, 400 on deer. Bullet selection, and placement matter, as always the case with any round.

Want more speed, pick a different round, very simple.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by RMiller2
If the Grendel cant get it done past 200 yards it is a product of the shooter not the cartridge.

Thats actually an intelligent question.

The answer is both and more of course. Real hunting shots are a compromise, i.e. not as perfect as shooting at paper from a bench. Bullet placement is often "off" a little from ideal because (a) the animal doesnt cooperate and (b) the hunter can't break the shot nicely. I'm going give a wild-ass guess that 80% of hunting shots are the "compromise".

Empirically, we know that increasing the impact velocity of a bullet increases the damage it does to the animal. And when the velocity exceeds a certain threshold, the damage is more than just the frontal area of the bullet crushing tissue. This isn't news, we've been using this since 1925 when the 270 Winchester was introduced.

But today folks are trying to wring all they can from "wimp" cartridges - cartridges limited by AR-15 design constraints. And these cartridges aren't even 30-30 power level at the muzzle. So these cartridges don't provide much "extra" to help make a quick kill with the "compromise" shots. Any margin the Grendel had is pretty much gone much past 200 yards, and "compromise" can mean lost animals. OTH, the 270 Winchester for example, will still turn a deer to mush at 200 yards - offering much more margin for those "compromise" shots.

Yes there are stories of an Inuit grandma taking a polar bear with a 22lr. But the are a lot more stories of Inuit's encased in bear scat. "Use the right tool" - Anton Chigurh from 'No Country for Old Men'.



That's a great lecture on hunting ... from a guy with no apparent hunting experience. I'm doubting he even has much shooting experience at this point. My guess is he's one those basement dwellers that's too fat to get off the couch, and everything he "knows" is just what he's read online.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by Spotshooter

What Djones is showing vs. saying is the 300 Hamm’r is pretty much out performing many of the AR chamberings - maybe even the 6.8 SPC... not to mention the Grendel.


I'm not sure where you're seeing the evidence for that.

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

Go do some google searches - Then ask Djones why he picked the 300 Hamm’r

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Yondering, lonely and feeling insecure


That's a great lecture on hunting ... from a guy with no apparent hunting experience. I'm doubting he even has much shooting experience at this point. My guess is he's one those basement dwellers that's too fat to get off the couch, and everything he "knows" is just what he's read online.


If you want a date just say so and I'll forward this to Antelope Sniper.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Yondering, lonely and feeling insecure


That's a great lecture on hunting ... from a guy with no apparent hunting experience. I'm doubting he even has much shooting experience at this point. My guess is he's one those basement dwellers that's too fat to get off the couch, and everything he "knows" is just what he's read online.


If you want a date just say so and I'll forward this to Antelope Sniper.


You keep saying homo stuff like that. This is the wrong forum for those kind of fantasies, take it somewhere else please.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
well yonder, i know what you mean. i've been eating baloney sammiches for a cpl years now and prolly will be for the rest of my life.

something i've noticed reading forums. lots of feelings wrapped up in a gun, caliber, bullet etc. causing illogical comments. i shot an animal and he was drt so my gun is the best. oh yea, well i shot one and he ran off with my bullet in his brain so that gun sux. how many shots would actually be required to produce any statistical confidence in a particular test? one of my favorite 'facts' is... hogs never charge. you were just standing in their path they were trying to get away. well you may have shot 10,000 hogs and never been charged once. but that doesn't mean they never charge. another may have hunted once and got charged. hmmm.

something i've noticed shooting hogs of all sizes with many calibers, and bullets is hogs have a funny way of deciding for themselves when they want to die. some don't go down when they should and vice versa.

i'm shooting a ham'r because a buddy is a prostaffer for wilson combat, he asked me to test it and i ended up keeping it. before that i shot a 6.8 and settled on 120gr sst bullets. i know killers who shoot the grendel with great success. same for 7.62x39, 308, wildcats etc ad nauseam. they all kill and they all have escapees. what i don't get is why people give a crap who shoots what and why. if it's to learn something, great. if it's to bitch, geez... how pathetic.

the advantage i see to the ham'r is it certainly is (in my opinion) a more effective killer on hog sized game at night time distances than a 223 or the blackout. the advantage over the grendel and 6.8 is it truly is a barrel change (and gas tube) from a 223. and if you just happen to prefer 30 cal holes in your quarry, well there you go.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
fyi... i won a vid contest H, from ar performance, put on for 6.8 hunt footage. i'm sure i posted it somewhere here before, but i'll repeat it again. wonder if all those hogs would have gone down with a different caliber/bullet? who knows but certainly weapons in the same general class as the 6.8 seem to do well.


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Good post there, djones.

I've always wondered about the way you see running hogs go ass over teakettle in NV and thermal videos, and my real life experiences where powerful centerfires that *you'd think* would put em down hard but they don't because you didn't hit em in just the right spot. I've had that happen twice, and I know it was my fault...maybe there's just something about the way a running hog reacts when hit somewhere in the body. I dunno...but I aim to learn. I would dearly love to do some night time hog slaughtering myself...finally got all set up for it, then lost the damned lease due to a land sale. Oh well.

Have you ever tried .223 with a 70-grain Accubond?


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Good comments djones. I always appreciate the insight of guys with real experience, and you're spot on with the stuff about favorite calibers and whatnot.

That 300 HAMR sounds like a good tool within it's intended use (closer range pigs as you said). Reading about it online, sounds like it was designed specifically for the 130gr Speer Hot Cor, is that what you used?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Jones,

What .224 bullets have you seen used for large volume pig killing?

Any experience with the 60gr NPT, 64gr Bonded Solid base (BSB), or the new 70gr Accoubond?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
My brother in law tried the Frontier brand 70 or 75 grain i forget.

The bullets are to hard it seems they just pass thru.

He uses a thermal and went back to the 6.5 Grendel and 100 grain controlled chaos bullets.

Those Frontier bullets would not plant a coyote at a 100 yards.

It gets costly when you have to shoot 3 or more times.

But as for the caliber/brand rifle i am glad we have the choices we do.

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
Last video was entertaining, for sure. That kind of night shooting is a hoot. Wish I got to do it more than once a blue moon. Unless you're gonna use monos, I don’t see the 223 being as good for the steep angles and anchoring runners, as the 6.5/6.8/30s.....then again, it might be splitting hairs and easier/faster on splits for multiples, too. I don’t get to hammer in to hogs in those kinda numbers more than maybe once a year, though I spend a lot of time behind some thermals.... that unfortunately don’t video.....or I’d have some cool coyote footage, with an occasional hog probably thrown in. All I mainly get to do is varmint defense, and my shots need to be inside of 150, due to the nature of clipons and parallax error sometimes. The Ham’r intrigues me, and I’ll probably build another Grendel, but it’s as much the build as the caliber, and I have a particular 6.8 that’s my magic wand for a hunting AR.....90gr gold dots at 3k or 110 NABs past 2600 seem to do just fine for what I need. I don’t know why anyone competent would take issue with a good Grendel bullet being able to kill well at 3-400. I don’t know why anyone competent would take issue with thinking some things might be better suited for hunting past 300.

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/06/19.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Some things might indeed be "better" at 300 and beyond. I think we all see marginal differences differently, though.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
D
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 491
i have a few ar15s in 556 but mostly used them for plinking, varmints and predators. been shooting them way before all the cool bullets came out. i mostly buy average grade 52 to 68 grain stuff and see what's most accurate. don't really use them that much for hogs and don't have any experience testing lethality of the current premium bullets.

i used to kid a lot about the 223 not being able to kill a hog. it was always in fun but i learned emotion doesn't translate well in posts until feelings get hurt. still, i can't help but joke as i see it as all too funny. here's a case in point where i got called out, some of you were in this thread, best part is the last page, lol.

223 thread

one thing i like about the hamr is it's the most accurate ar i've ever had. of course wilson is all about accuracy, so it's no surprise his guns use match grade barrels.

as far as the 130 grain hot core... bill wilson recommends them and uses them almost exclusively for hog hunting. he also took quite a bit of african game with them and some 150gr varieties. some of my best multiple kills were with the 130s. they're good killers but i just like trying different stuff and seeing for myself. i'm shooting the 125gr tnt because i like the destructiveness of a 30cal varmint bullet at hamr speeds. i'm running them at over 2600 fps. i think his factory loads are around 2550?? anyway... here are some 130s at work.


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,600
Originally Posted by djones
.





.300 HAMR.......of Thor.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by djones


as far as the 130 grain hot core... bill wilson recommends them and uses them almost exclusively for hog hunting. he also took quite a bit of african game with them and some 150gr varieties. some of my best multiple kills were with the 130s. they're good killers but i just like trying different stuff and seeing for myself. i'm shooting the 125gr tnt because i like the destructiveness of a 30cal varmint bullet at hamr speeds. i'm running them at over 2600 fps. i think his factory loads are around 2550?? anyway... here are some 130s at work.




Thanks for the reply.

I've used a bunch of those 125gr TNT in 300 Blk and bigger stuff. They are a good bullet, especially for as cheap as they are. They're pretty explosive out of a 308 or bigger, but at 300 Blk speeds act more like a hunting bullet and I wouldn't hesitate to use one on deer. I imagine out of that Hamr you're probably getting some fragmentation but still decent penetration, and that's a great combo.

I like the TNT bullet line. They aren't a high b.c. bullet but they're cheap and accurate for plinking and vermin (also have used lots of the 6mm 70gr on sage rats at 3750-3900 fps, talk about pink mist...) and have always been good killers for me when used appropriately. I recently bought some in 20 cal, only 10 cents per bullet!

Last edited by Yondering; 12/06/19.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,263
Thanks for your knowledge DJones, I have killed two deer with my 6.8 SPC/95 grain TTSX, it has a 2-3 moa Wilson barrel on it which I have not been 100% happy with, but to disassemble it and return it...meah, it kills deer..... I am going to have to try to work up a load with the 120 grain SST bullets. I gave up barnes bullets in the 257 roberts after 117 grain interlocs over 45 or so grains of H4350 does fine, maybe the SST is the ticket in the spc, not sure the 110Vmax would be any better or worse at the spc speeds?. There are two or so people that post drivel on the forums just to stir up crap, but neither of them seems to have actually tested even once the information they post about.


Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,710
1
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
1
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,710
Haven't read the whole thread but I see no reason a 95 grain V-Max wouldn't work at Grendel velocities on deer or similar sized animals.

Maybe even a 100 grain Ballistic Tip or 120 Sierra.


The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,570
You’re still talking 2800-3k.l for 90-100s....they might be pretty explosive, still

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
For 6.5Grendel fans, you can get one on sale right now from the original designer of the cartridge - an Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel 18" Hunter Rifle for only a $1,000 bucks - https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Gun_Vault_Sale_-6_5_Grendel_18_Hunter_Rifle.html

Thinkin' about grabbing me another.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by skeen
For 6.5Grendel fans, you can get one on sale right now from the original designer of the cartridge - an Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel 18" Hunter Rifle for only a $1,000 bucks - https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Gun_Vault_Sale_-6_5_Grendel_18_Hunter_Rifle.html

Thinkin' about grabbing me another.


YMMV, but if I were spending $1,000 on a modern AR, it sure wouldn't be in that configuration. That would have been a nice setup in ~2005 but seems a bit dated now, with better options available elsewhere for the external bits like handguard, stock, etc. IMO, the Grendel has been around long enough now that AA doesn't really have any exclusive corner on the market any more.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Is that an aluminum handguard on the AA or is it carbon or fiberglass?


Politics is War by Other Means
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by plainsman456
My brother in law tried the Frontier brand 70 or 75 grain i forget.

The bullets are to hard it seems they just pass thru.

He uses a thermal and went back to the 6.5 Grendel and 100 grain controlled chaos bullets.

Those Frontier bullets would not plant a coyote at a 100 yards.

It gets costly when you have to shoot 3 or more times.

But as for the caliber/brand rifle i am glad we have the choices we do.


Interesting, I have some of the 556 75 gr bthp Frontiers. Think they'd open up on antelope and deer?


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
I think they should work but have not tried them myself.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by plainsman456
I think they should work but have not tried them myself.

I'd think so too. Thanks


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Is that an aluminum handguard on the AA or is it carbon or fiberglass?

According to this review it's a "synthetic handguard."

https://gunblast.com/Alexander-65Hunter.htm

Originally Posted by Jeff Quinn
Here, we are looking at one of Alexander Arms' latest versions of their 6.5 Grendel rifle; the eighteen inch Hunter. The Hunter model is, in my opinion, the perfect configuration for an all-around 6.5 Grendel rifle. The barrel is a fluted matte-black stainless steel with a medium profile, .700 inch at the muzzle, offering plenty of stiffness for fine accuracy, without being excessively heavy. The bore is button-rifled one turn in 7.5 inches. The muzzle is threaded 9/16x24 TPI for the attachment of a suppressor or brake, if desired. The barrel is free-floated inside a smooth two-inch diameter synthetic handguard which measures approximately twelve inches in length. There is one three-inch section of accessory rail at the forward end of the handguard, which may be removed or relocated every ninety degrees around the tubular circumference.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by skeen
For 6.5Grendel fans, you can get one on sale right now from the original designer of the cartridge - an Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel 18" Hunter Rifle for only a $1,000 bucks - https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Gun_Vault_Sale_-6_5_Grendel_18_Hunter_Rifle.html

Thinkin' about grabbing me another.


YMMV, but if I were spending $1,000 on a modern AR, it sure wouldn't be in that configuration. That would have been a nice setup in ~2005 but seems a bit dated now, with better options available elsewhere for the external bits like handguard, stock, etc. IMO, the Grendel has been around long enough now that AA doesn't really have any exclusive corner on the market any more.

Huh, well, yeah, then my mileage does vary.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,368
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by plainsman456
My brother in law tried the Frontier brand 70 or 75 grain i forget.

The bullets are to hard it seems they just pass thru.

He uses a thermal and went back to the 6.5 Grendel and 100 grain controlled chaos bullets.

Those Frontier bullets would not plant a coyote at a 100 yards.

It gets costly when you have to shoot 3 or more times.

But as for the caliber/brand rifle i am glad we have the choices we do.


Interesting, I have some of the 556 75 gr bthp Frontiers. Think they'd open up on antelope and deer?
That should be a Hornady 75 bthp. I have not bought new in years since I had 10K on hand when I quit shooting competition. Lets just say we keep mags full of a load with the 75bthp for general all around use and I've never had a problem with it from coyotes and coons to deer and pigs. Can't think I've used it much past 300 or so yards though, longer 223 shots on deer I single load the old 75 amax.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Haven't read the whole thread but I see no reason a 95 grain V-Max wouldn't work at Grendel velocities on deer or similar sized animals.

Maybe even a 100 grain Ballistic Tip or 120 Sierra.



You are correct -

There is also no reason for Grendel guys to say it’s better than the 6.8 SPC or the 300 Hamr... but then again they weren’t being honest with themselves to begin with smile

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by Spotshooter
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Haven't read the whole thread but I see no reason a 95 grain V-Max wouldn't work at Grendel velocities on deer or similar sized animals.

Maybe even a 100 grain Ballistic Tip or 120 Sierra.



You are correct -

There is also no reason for Grendel guys to say it’s better than the 6.8 SPC or the 300 Hamr... but then again they weren’t being honest with themselves to begin with smile


Get over your bad self. Do you really want to put yourself in the same group with dla?

It's hard to respect the opinion of someone who has to piss on a particular cartridge because they prefer something else. These "Chevy vs Ford" / "my cartridge is better than your cartridge" arguments are pretty juvenile, and demonstrate a general ignorance about the topic.
Any of those cartridges, and a bunch of others, work fine on deer sized animals with the right bullets, and I don't think I've seen anyone here worth listening to that's saying the Grendel is the only right choice. On the other hand, there seem to be several fanboys like yourself of other cartridges, specifically the 6.8, who think they have to talk crap about the Grendel or 300 Blk or whatever else doesn't fit their preferences.

Last edited by Yondering; 12/09/19.
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,572
Originally Posted by skeen
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Is that an aluminum handguard on the AA or is it carbon or fiberglass?

According to this review it's a "synthetic handguard."
The nice thing about the synthetic handguards is they are much warmer in the Winter. AL is such a good conductor, it sucks heat right out of your hand. I have one AR with a fiberglass HG and I like it, but it is slippery compared to a cheese grater or an A2 HG.


Politics is War by Other Means
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,400
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by plainsman456
My brother in law tried the Frontier brand 70 or 75 grain i forget.

The bullets are to hard it seems they just pass thru.

He uses a thermal and went back to the 6.5 Grendel and 100 grain controlled chaos bullets.

Those Frontier bullets would not plant a coyote at a 100 yards.

It gets costly when you have to shoot 3 or more times.

But as for the caliber/brand rifle i am glad we have the choices we do.


Interesting, I have some of the 556 75 gr bthp Frontiers. Think they'd open up on antelope and deer?
That should be a Hornady 75 bthp. I have not bought new in years since I had 10K on hand when I quit shooting competition. Lets just say we keep mags full of a load with the 75bthp for general all around use and I've never had a problem with it from coyotes and coons to deer and pigs. Can't think I've used it much past 300 or so yards though, longer 223 shots on deer I single load the old 75 amax.

Appreciate the feedback. If I am remembering correctly it's a slightly different 75 made a bit shorter but generally the same thing. But I may be thinking of something else. The same btsp used in the TAP line. I will try to follow-up...


"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022


Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,423
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,423
Originally Posted by dla
The Hornady 123 GR SST take 2200fps


Not so much. The 123gr SST is a relatively lightly constructed bullet that has a good sectional density and will open up and perform well down past 2200fps. That's what makes it effective against medium-sized big game: opens up pretty easily and has enough SD/mass behind to keep on driving. Not as deeply as, say, a Nos partition, but good on thin skinned / medium game.. It doesn't require high velocity to do its work. Lots of cartridges like that in past times.

Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Good morning BSA. The images above came out of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading book, vol. 2 which is focused on hunting loads.

Any idea how long each animal took to expire? Range? Animals shot to tagged ratio?

No?

Then you don't know shlt about how the cartridge performs.

When the bullet drops below 2000-2200fps, it is going to pencil through like a target arrow. It might expand, but it isnt a huge bullet to start with. Kills slowly unless shot placement is perfect.

The 6.5 Grendel is a shlt hunting cartridge much past 200 yards.


Sure, which is why the 170gr RNSP out of the .30-30 (MV~2200fps, 100ydvel~1900fps) is such a pathetic deer killer...in your mind. Outside your mind, in reality, the .30-30 170gr RNSP is fine deer medicine. It just happens to use a bulet designed to suit the cartridge and gun parameters.

Oh, why bother? My 13YO daughter has more time behind a AR15 in 6.5Grendel and has killed more game with it than has dla.


Regards,

deadlift_dude
“The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.”
----Fred Rogers
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
692 members (117LBS, 10gaugemag, 12344mag, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 73 invisible), 2,692 guests, and 1,302 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,688
Posts18,399,775
Members73,820
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.193s Queries: 14 (0.009s) Memory: 1.9064 MB (Peak: 3.2541 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 22:37:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS