Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Fight With Facts On The Impeachment BS

99% of the people you will discuss the impeachment with have no idea what law they think Trump broke. I am going to walk you through a process that I went through when I attended the Federal Maritime Boarding Officer's Academy. First you take the law:

§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or


(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.


At this point you strip the law down to the applicable elements: (The below is what I believe they are angling for since nobody has come right out and said it.)

It shall be unlawful for-a person to solicit a thing of value from a foreign national in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

Then you apply the elements to the actions:

1. Did Trump solicit an investigation? Yes

2. Does an investigation (the results of which are unknown) have value to Trump? How could it? The results could just have likely painted his opponent in a favorable light. I have never dealt in this legal realm, but I can't help but think this would be a pesky legal hurdle that would come into play. See the link below for a long list of things of value. If you meet this test then you go to the third one.

3. Was the solicitation for the thing of value (investigation) done in connection with an election? This is particularly problematic to establish. Unless Trump came right out and told someone he wanted to bring Biden down with it, you are never going to clear this hurdle. The fact that we have a treaty with Ukraine that binds us to weed out corruption, further confounds any attempt to clear the hurdle.

Back in my day I would have never tried to make this case.

Oh, it's important to note that quid pro quo is not illegal as it relates to this statute. It's the way we conduct foreign affairs. If it were illegal, that one would be problematic to establish as well

https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/2019-10-ELW-the-law-of-a-thing-of-value.pdf

Even worse, think of the precedent.

Just think. If the Republicans had been that nasty and vindictive, they could have impeached Obama for stuff which (I think) is even worse. How about taking $150,000,000,000 in unmarked bills and secretly shipping it to to a state sponsor of terrorism (Iran).

Or secretly giving guns to Mexican drug cartels.

Or sending agents to interfere in an ally's (Israel's) election?

Or the illegal stuff done to overthrow Trump. This is just now coming to be known but why did it take three years?

Is this the new norm? In the future, whenever the president and the House are from different parties, are we going to have four years of impeachment hearings?

The Obama campaign violated Federal Election laws. Nobody was arrested or impeached. They did have to pay the largest fine in history.

move it to the senate and let them vote. that's their job and they get paid for it.

it'll happen before the 2020 election almost certainly unless it's called off.

agree, but I think it is Pigglosie's move to make. she can delay as long as she wants. if / when the House impeaches, then the Senate "trial" begins

Withholding military support from one of America's allies when we have troops in the area fighting a common enemy in order to pressure someone to begin an investigation is bribery And it places US servicemen in greater danger. Would have been no different than if FDR had told the French in 1943 that he would not agree to an European invasion unless they helped FDR defeat Dewey in the 1944 election. While we had men fighting in Italy and North Africa against the same enemy.

Make no mistake, I'm a conservative Republican. I'm a Christian who loves my country. Donald Trump is none of the above. He is a con man who has made fools out of about 1/3 of the country. If you're a conservative who cares for this country getting Trump out of the Whitehouse should be a priority. The longer we put up with his incompetence the the more liberals he is putting in power.

And who will you vote for JMR40? He’s the incumbent president. Are you gonna vote for a commie dem? The only way to get those countries to do the right thing is with pressure. If they don’t like it don’t take our money. Ed k

Booming economy is proof of his incompetence?

No being a worldwide pushover?

Maybe you like the economy and worldwide opinion of the US while Barry Hussein was running it. I didn’t.

JMR40 is a conservatives worst friend. He’ll vote against trump just in spite.

I think most on here would prefer President Trump to be more "presidential" whatever that means and less a showman. but the very reason he is President is that he is not a part of the Washington establishment. we were and are sick of that. but he has done more for our country in 3 years than the Halfrican did in 8 despite the Dems and media fighting him from day one. I know who I will vote for in 2020.

What makes you think "most on here...."? I totally disagree and believe you have been sucked in by the media.

You very dumb [bleep]. Obama sent them blankets you idiot. Trump supplied them with Missles.

I don't believe I've been sucked in by the media, but I do believe the media sucks for the most part.

I really did not want to vote for Trump in 2016 but I did. Now I can't wait to vote for him in 2020.

I just wish the previous administration could have been held to the legal standards the current administration is being held to. Obama could have been impeached multiple times for some of the chit he pulled if that were the case. But he's a democrat so it's different and there's nothing to see here.

You don't know WTH you are talking about.

That was not at all connected to the original post. It is what is commonly known as deflection. It's a tactic people use when they don't have a factual substantive response. Frankly, it's not very Christlike of you to do that.

Another f'ing moron and world class liar.

You're also another Christian hypocrite,who falsely believes you know what's in mans heart.

I was a Cruze supporter in the primaries. I didn't really understand Trumps style or personality and wasn't a huge fan of it at first. However, I had no hesitation in voting for him verses Hillary.

Now, I very much support Trump and his communication style doesn't bother me anymore. The dems have been hitting us with heavy low blows for years and people like Bush and Romney thought they needed to take it like gentlemen. Hell with that, it hot us no where. The more we caved to them the worse they got. There's no point in trying to out liberal a leftist. They will always find another way to buy more votes than us an cheat through an election.

I'm behind Trump, just keep hitting them back. The time for acting like a gentleman is long gone. Our nations future hangs in the balance and it's time to fight. I don't care if his words sound mean and he hurts people's feelers. The Dems have done horrible things and no one even attempted to hold them accountable. Trump has done nothing that even remotely compares to crap Obama pulled.

If Trump commits high crimes I will no longer support him and will want him held accountable. I have seen nothing criminal in his actions so far. Ukraine got their funds and the corrupt Bidens got away with their money. I think the Dems are just scared because we are onto their corrupt ways so they are trying to hit first.

Until someone can prove to me that Trump has committed high crimes I've got his back. The media has zero credibility. All the fence sitting independents and leftists out virtue signaling and acting like Trump is the worse thing ever have no credibility either. If they are so principled where the hell were they when Obama was tearing apart our nation with his corrupt machine.

By the way, I know most of you aren't Glenn Beck fans but I started watching his 3 specials on Ukraine last night. I've only watch a bit but it looks like there's way more to this Ukraine thing and the dems are trying to cover up some of their very dirty deeds.

Bb

I still don’t approve of everything Trump has done or the way he slanders people. I also don’t agree with everything said on the campfire. That’s my opinion. That doesn’t mean I agree with the Dems either. Until I see Trump do something totally illegal I’ll vote for him. I do not trust the Dems!

The more I live and learn, the more I realize ethics and honesty is a rare commodity these days. Most politicians are lacking both. JMO

JMR40 did you have your panties in a wad when this happened???????????????????????????