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recommendation for a 40x barrel #14303600 11/22/19
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mart Online Content OP
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I recently bought a Remington 40x in 222. I've wanted one since I was a very young man. I found one at what wasn't a steal but wasn't a bad price. It included a 36x Leupold. I tried several 50-52 grain bullets over 19.5 grains of IMR 4198, a long time accuracy load for me in other 222's. The best group I could get was just over 3/4 inch and most loads shot well over an inch, some over two.

I didn't think it was humanly possible to put enough rounds through a 222 to ruin the barrel but it seems that is what has happened to this one. I just got a Lyman bore scope yesterday and it looks bad. Some noticeable throat erosion and significant pitting in much of the barrel.

I have a 36x Weaver and am going to shoot some more groups with the Leupold and then change out the scope and try again before I decide on a rebarrel, but I suspect that's the route I'll have to take. I have contacted the seller and he indicates the consignee may work with me some by refunding a portion of the purchase price toward a new barrel. Since I've shot the rifle they aren't going to take it back and I wouldn't expect them to. I was really disappointed to finally get a 40x and then have it shoot horribly.

So if you were going to rebarrel a 40x in 222, for the sole purpose of enjoying shooting little groups, who would you use and what barrel maker? Thanks in advance guys.

Last edited by mart; 11/22/19.

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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14303679 11/23/19
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lots of options, I’ve never had bad luck with brux or Bartlien.

http://www.bugholes.com/product-p/b-224-8tw-ss-hv-31.htm

The link takes you to a 8 twist barrel. I imagine the factory 40-x’s had 12 or 14 twist. I have shot lots of 50-55 grain bullets out of an 8 twist with great accuracy though.

http://www.bugholes.com/product-p/m-224-12tw-ss-m24-27.htm

http://www.bugholes.com/product-p/b-224-12-ss-m24-27.htm

Found a few 12 twist listed above. I can’t recommend a gunsmith. Good luck👍

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14303833 11/23/19
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I think, from what I’ve learned, accuracy shooters historically didn’t want to twist bullets faster than necessary. Seems twisting fast can magnify bullet defects. Bullets today are pretty good and I’m not sure that idea is as prevalent as back in the day, although you sometimes see specialized target barrels with ROT tweaked for a certain bullet.

Faster twist gives more options and I would go faster than factory. 222 may not be a round I’d choose for heavies, but fast twist also does well with conventional bullets. I’d choose an 8 twist over a 12 or 14. I’ve never wished a rifle had slower twist.

DF

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: Dirtfarmer] #14303888 11/23/19
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I think, from what I’ve learned, accuracy shooters historically didn’t want to twist bullets faster than necessary. Seems twisting fast can magnify bullet defects. Bullets today are pretty good and I’m not sure that idea is as prevalent as back in the day, although you sometimes see specialized target barrels with ROT tweaked for a certain bullet.

Faster twist gives more options and I would go faster than factory. 222 may not be a round I’d choose for heavies, but fast twist also does well with conventional bullets. I’d choose an 8 twist over a 12 or 14. I’ve never wished a rifle had slower twist.

DF


Same thoughts here. RPMs make little critters fly too


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: beretzs] #14303905 11/23/19
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Spinning a frag type bullet faster makes it even badder.

DF

Alpha

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14303931 11/23/19
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Originally Posted by mart
So if you were going to rebarrel a 40x in 222, for the sole purpose of enjoying shooting little groups, who would you use and what barrel maker? Thanks in advance guys.

Any of the top tier barrels makers won't disappoint, it may boil down to who or where you can get one in a reasonable time frame.

No way I would run an eight twist strictly for for shooting groups, assuming 100/200 yards.

Match the twist to the intended bullet/s for best results.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14304108 11/23/19
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Bob White, a benchrest gunsmith, benchrest shooter, and owner of Shooters Corner in New Jersey would be a good choice for 40X work.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: Dirtfarmer] #14304147 11/23/19
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I think, from what I’ve learned, accuracy shooters historically didn’t want to twist bullets faster than necessary. Seems twisting fast can magnify bullet defects. Bullets today are pretty good and I’m not sure that idea is as prevalent as back in the day, although you sometimes see specialized target barrels with ROT tweaked for a certain bullet.

Faster twist gives more options and I would go faster than factory. 222 may not be a round I’d choose for heavies, but fast twist also does well with conventional bullets. I’d choose an 8 twist over a 12 or 14. I’ve never wished a rifle had slower twist.

DF


^^^^^^ this. Most group shooters have as slow a twist as they can get away with. I haven’t seen or heard of a fast twist 6ppc or deuce at a group shoot in years. 6ppc usually 13-15 twist and 30BR 14-17 twist as below.

https://kriegerbarrels.com/smallestgroup

Scroll down for equipment and notice the super fast twist at 1 in 17.


On June 8th, 2013, Michael Stinnett shot a new world record, surpassing a group that held the record for 40 years. 5 shots were fired at a distance of 100 yards. This record was shot at the North Texas Shooters Association NBRSA match in Denton, TX. That 5 shots were fired was verified by use of a moving backer, and the .0077 IN group size was an average of the measurements from multiple judges.



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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14304409 11/23/19
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I’m not a group shooter. So my opinion is for a general use scenario and I like flexibility.

So, I lean toward faster twist.

DF

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14305002 11/23/19
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A little background.....I cut my competition teeth shooting point blank Benchrest for several years, then added Hunter Benchrest to the mix for close to 25 years.

I eventually got out of the short range game to concentrate on 1000 yard Benchrest, with an ocassional 600 yard BR match thrown it for good measure.

Never did I, or anyone I knew, shoot a fast twist barrel in short range competition because it was just as accurate as a slow twist barrel......




Bravo

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: aalf] #14305945 11/23/19
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Originally Posted by aalf

A little background.....I cut my competition teeth shooting point blank Benchrest for several years, then added Hunter Benchrest to the mix for close to 25 years.

I eventually got out of the short range game to concentrate on 1000 yard Benchrest, with an ocassional 600 yard BR match thrown it for good measure.

Never did I, or anyone I knew, shoot a fast twist barrel in short range competition because it was just as accurate as a slow twist barrel......




I understand. That’s beyond my pay grade.

So, to me faster is better, but that’s just for my use.

If I was into your kinda shooting, would probably be tweaking twist to the bullet, trying to keep up and be competitive.

DF

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14306128 11/23/19
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I emailed Shooter's Corner for an estimate. I'm with the slow twist crowd. A fast twist has it place and if I was doing anything other than just group shooting I'd consider a fast twist barrel.


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May the wind be always at your back.

May the sun shine warm upon your face;

the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,

may God hold you in the palm of His hand.
Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14307644 11/24/19
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If you want to use larger bullets, pick a cartridge with a larger cartridge capacity. I would stay in the 12-14 twist area and that will handle up to 55 grain bullet.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14310423 11/25/19
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Where the barrels on the 40x made by Remington or a outside vendor?

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14312625 11/26/19
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mart,
I had the same thing happen about 15 years ago, I did some trade work for a highly prized 40X in 222 Rem. It shot horribly so I took it to my gunsmith and his bore scope revealed it was worn and pitted. I wanted to re-barrel and my gunsmith recommended doing a blueprint and pillar bedding job as well, a 40X needs a blueprint job as bad as any M700.
At the time the only barrel I could get quick was a Pac-Nor 1-14" twist. To this day it is still my most accurate non benchrest rifle.
DO NOT listen to dirt farmer and bastardize a triple deuce, save the fast twist for another cartridge.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14312706 11/26/19
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I'd be the least qualified to comment on this, but I do have an opinion and that is the .222's best use is for bullets no heavier than 55 grains. I'd go with a 12 twist...or maybe 14 but 12 just seems the best choice to me.


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14323053 11/29/19
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I think I'd go to Hart barrels. They made some of the barrels used in 40X rifles, IIRC, and the one Hart I had would shoot really, really well (6BR-14" twist). It was originally in 6PPC, but didn't shoot well enough to win the Nationals, so the user sold it to us, and we used it on a PD rifle. It shot more than well enough to kill range rats.

Hart still makes good barrels, and they do installs, too, or did, anyway.


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: grumpy7904] #14323587 11/29/19
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Originally Posted by grumpy7904
Where the barrels on the 40x made by Remington or a outside vendor?


The barrels for the 40XBR rifles were button rifled and made in house, mostly by Mike Walker, up into the eighties. They were excellent barrels. I still have the barrel from an early eighties 40X under the bench and this barrel will still shoot quality groups. It is a 14 twist and has never been fired with anything but 52 grain bullets. GD

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14327216 12/01/19
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Pac Nor if you can wait till they get running again......

Leave your options option......maybe someday you'll varmint shoot

and run 53 V max out of it......not quite the same.....but

I have a 20-222 Pac Nor w/9 twist.......like a laser.........

dog killin' machine !

Last edited by tikkanut; 12/01/19.
Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14340071 12/05/19
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I would be tempted to get a 5R barrel from Bartlein like the Marine Corps model 308 which have a good reputation for accuracy. Not sure who makes those barrels.


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14340106 12/05/19
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i would rebarrel that rifle with a Brux barrel, chamber it to a 6 BR , have Straight Line Machining Greg Whalstrom 320-272-4897 put the barrel on and rebed this rifle. he builds alot of very fine bench rifles and some have won National titles 1,000 yd. and others.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: pete53] #14345663 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by pete53
i would rebarrel that rifle with a Brux barrel, chamber it to a 6 BR .


That would be a good idea with a different bolt face, let a 222 stay a 222

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14351473 12/08/19
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Mart: A friend of mine, years ago, "found out the hard way" that barrels can be shot out!
In this instance I had introduced a fellow Rock Chuck shooter to Prairie Dog shooting!
On my recommendation he had bought a Remington 40XB-KS in caliber 220 Swift (just like mine!) - this Rifle worked extremely well on Rock Chucks and was extremely accurate!
He and I were at SPRAA Range in south Seattle one calm day double checking our sight in before a Hunt. I saw him shoot a 5 shot group at 200 (two hundred!) yards that measured just a tad under .500"!
This with Varmint worthy type bullets!
Anyway eventually we go Prairie Dog Hunting for the first (his) time in Wyoming and my friend (an N.R.A Director at the time) shot his 40X hot - numerous times over the course of that week.
Against my advice (and due to a lack of other guns to shoot) he kept at it - shooting the Rifle hot.
Another year of Rock Chuckin and Prairie Doggin and his accuracy diminished noticeably! With just at 2,000 round down that factory barrel he went searching for a new replacement barrel - he decided on Remington's Custom Shop.
Worked out pretty well - but was not cheap!
This second Remington barrel shot very well indeed (I thought) but not quite as well as the first.
He did learn the shooting "hot barrel" lesson a bit early IMO.
I have never shot out a 222 Remingtons barrel - nor seen one shot out, so I am puzzled about your 40X's barrel being so rough???
Could it be due to salt air up Alaska way?
Where did the Rifle live before you got it?
And, this comment on the 222 Remington in "accurate Rifles" and barrel wear.
I went to a Bench Rest Match out in Tacoma, Washington years ago and a fellow there was shooting a Rifle (contraption!) in caliber 222 Remington in the Unlimited Class.
He was shooting very well indeed against all the other competitors who were using Rifles in 6m/m PPC and such.
Anyway the owner of the Rifle and my friend Russ Haydon (formerly of Russ Haydons Shooting Supply) explained to me the history of that Rifle and the number of rounds down the barrel.
It had been built from SCRATCH and owned by the famous die maker L.E. Wilson of Cashmere, Washington. Everything (except the trigger!) had been built by Mr. Wilson - barrel, action and frame!
It originally had a 28" very heavy non-stainless barrel and with it Mr. Wilson had shot a world record target with it and eventually won many matches. Eventually accuracy started to fade and being a frugal man Mr. Wilson removed the barrel, cut off the chamber and throat end and turned it around, re-chambered it then shot it backwards (so to speak) with resulting great accuracy!
Well time goes buy and Mr. Wilson notices accuracy diminishing again and once again "chops" off the chamber and reverses it again! Now he is shooting a stubby very heavy barrel and the accuracy is back to wonderful!
The Rifle is eventually sold to the owner who is shooting it in Tacoma and doing very well at this event!
The information on the barrel life was there had been over 30,000 (thirty thousand!) rounds down the tube!
Probably not "max loads" for sure but a LOT of cleaning had been done on that barrel as well.
That day the owner of that 222 did not win the Unlimited Class but he beat more competitors than beat him!
I am suspecting moisture abuse and or poor cleaning habits solvents for the barrel pitting - lots of rounds for the leades to the rifling being worn.
Call Remington and see what they say.
Best of luck to you in the barrel replacement search/project.
Hold into the wind
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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14355396 12/09/19
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The rifle came from CA a few weeks ago. The salt air of Alaska is not the issue. I know nothing of the history other than I think it's been shot a lot. Here are some bore pics. One of the things I am going to check next trip to the range is the scope with a single vision prescription. I shot with my trifocals last time and had a terrible time keeping the target in focus. I had focused the scope, it was cold out and I was not letting the barrel get hot at all. But with both the Leupold 36 and a Weaver 36 I played hell trying to keep my vision focused. I had no trouble with my 6x scopes on a couple other guns but when I jumped up to 36x found I was was constantly fighting finding a focal sweet spot. I have a single vision prescription for my shooting glasses and will try that before I completely condemn the barrel. I just didn't have them with me that day. Seems I cannot go to the range without forgetting something. I still think the barrel is rough based on the photos below. These were with a Lyman bore scope.

Throat area
[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

various shots throughout the barrel

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14355531 12/09/19
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Mart, that thing looks like it led the life of a 2 dollar whore. Rode hard put up wet.



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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14355576 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by mart
So if you were going to rebarrel a 40x in 222, for the sole purpose of enjoying shooting little groups, who would you use and what barrel maker? Thanks in advance guys.


If I were doing a 40X in .222 it would be for the history, and so I would stay true to the history. The barrel would be Hart or Shilen with a 1-14" twist to launch 52 or 53 grain HP or HPBT bullets. There are more accurate combinations today, but IMHO that is the "right" one for the cartridge.

Tom


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: Swifty52] #14355631 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by Swifty52
Mart, that thing looks like it led the life of a 2 dollar whore. Rode hard put up wet.


agreed x2 get a new barrel, but if you are considering bench rest or FTR class competition you may want a different twist rifle and or cartridge ? but for sure i would use a Brux barrel or a Krieger barrel .

Last edited by pete53; 12/09/19.
Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: Swifty52] #14355826 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by Swifty52
Mart, that thing looks like it led the life of a 2 dollar whore. Rode hard put up wet.


I had a similar thought when I ran the bore scope.

Not going to compete. Just always wanted a 40x in 222 to have some fun with.


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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358179 12/10/19
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I have a Sako Vixen wearing a Hart barrel in the Sako contour. Nice light rig for a walking groundhog rifle. With an old 6x Swift scope, it shoots sub-1/2" groups all day using 50gr Blitzkings and 20.5gr IMR4198. Wally Hart recommended 21gr but that works better with 50gr V-max bullets. I'd go Hart and be done with it.

https://www.hartbarrels.com/



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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358225 12/10/19
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Black top road appearance, cracking of the steel ahead of the chamber.

Just shot a lot, don't think salt has anything to do with it.

Time for a new one.

Seems I read somewhere that Hart may have made some of the early 40-X barrels for Remington...

The 40-XB I had (.244). had a very nice barrel, looked more like Hart than Remington thru the Hawkeye. That, of course, doesn't prove a thing.

Does anyone know about that?

DF

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358298 12/10/19
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Might be worth a call to the Remington Custom Shop out at Dakota Arms to see if they might have one in house.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358332 12/10/19
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The Remington Custom Shop and the Remington home site must be down as the connection times out on both my laptop and phone without loading.

Last edited by mart; 12/10/19.

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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358667 12/10/19
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Originally Posted by mart
The Remington Custom Shop and the Remington home site must be down as the connection times out on both my laptop and phone without loading.


Been that way for about a month or whenever that lawsuit was allowed to go forward. As to the barrel, I have a 243 with about 6K through the tube that looks better than yours. It was supposed to be rebarreled this year but another one jumped to the front due to my own stupid moves.
Personally I wouldn’t put another Remmy tube on it Kreiger, Shilen or Bartlein but never another Remmy. Original contour/ length and caliber.
Till then I would just shoot it and enjoy but as too your OP you may get a wallet group once in a while, although they are going to be rare and I really doubt that you are going to be satisfied and more than likely irritated to the point of chucking it all in the trash. BTDT
For your enjoyment, just in front of the throat on a Cooper 21 223 caliber just under 3600 rounds. It’s held up real well IMO.
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Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14358923 12/10/19
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That barrel looks great.


May the road rise up to meet you.

May the wind be always at your back.

May the sun shine warm upon your face;

the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,

may God hold you in the palm of His hand.
Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14359720 12/10/19
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Originally Posted by mart
I emailed Shooter's Corner for an estimate. I'm with the slow twist crowd. A fast twist has it place and if I was doing anything other than just group shooting I'd consider a fast twist barrel.

you want 14 twist krieger

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14359723 12/10/19
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try some jb paste. seat the bullets out to be .020 off. use lapua brass.

Re: recommendation for a 40x barrel [Re: mart] #14359726 12/10/19
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I use I4198 in 5 .222s. you could try BL-2.

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