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Anyone suggest a good safe load that gets at least 2400 fps out of 3006 (w/o a lot of trial & error and expensive NPT's sent downrange)?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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you can get 2600 out of one, using H4831SC....
Thread from many years ago, I posted that and as per usual got flamed... until a guy from Nosler, who was their chief ballistician at the time....
He agreed with the post, and also pointed out that they did have pressure testing equipment...
as he stated on that long ago thread... "you can't get enough 4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI Specs"
you need to give it a light crimp, to keep the bullet from slowly backing out, as it is a compressed load...
but it won't loosen a primer pocket...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Wondering why you are using a 220 NPT . At 2400.a std round nose C&C holds up well.Most (including Muledeer) advise a 200gr NPT.
I load 58&1/2 gr of H4831 in my Model 70 Pre-64 FWT behind 220gr Sierra RN and it is safe in my gun.Might not be in yours.Mine chronied at 2450-2500. Work up to this load. A lot of guys say you can't put enough 4831 in an .O6 case to be dangerous,but that isn't entirely true when you get to the 220 grainers
I'd buy a box of 220 gr , C&C RN, workup your load. When satisfied, switch to the NPT and tweak it . You will be darn close.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Wondering why you are using a 220 NPT . At 2400.a std round nose C&C holds up well.Most (including Muledeer) advise a 200gr NPT.
I load 58&1/2 gr of H4831 in my Model 70 Pre-64 FWT behind 220gr Sierra RN and it is safe in my gun.Might not be in yours.Mine chronied at 2450-2500. Work up to this load. A lot of guys say you can't put enough 4831 in an .O6 case to be dangerous,but that isn't entirely true when you get to the 220 grainers
I'd buy a box of 220 gr , C&C RN, workup your load. When satisfied, switch to the NPT and tweak it . You will be darn close.
Yeah, theres really no logical reason to use that pill over the 200gr partition. However guys like 458win (phil Shoemaker) say they dig Deeper than the 200 in heavier critters. For deer, elk and everything else in the lower 48 the 200 would suit my needs better. They fly flatter and knock the hell out of stuff.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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The thing with the internet is somebody always knows what you want more than you actually know what you want. Here is a link to Nosler’s suggested load data for the 220 gr. https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/30-06-springfield/Todd
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For those that need the security of having a load worked out and approved by legal dept of some company, then they need to use those sources...
but keep in mind, loads approved by some company's legal dept, is NOT for your protect, so much as it is for their protection, that when you screw up
they are able to block you from suing them....
such as the 220 load data listed in the lastest Nosler manual...
do you know what the pressure data is? as compared to SAAMI specs?
that can be both high and low.... say as compared to the load suggestions for max load of RL 22 vs H4831....
Manuals are a suggestion... I've had starting loads, pop primers out of some manuals, and then others yield no where near the velocity claimed, probably indicating the pressure is no where near SAAMI pressures....
any shooter needs to take some personal responsibility of what their loads are going to be.., be they MAX or not...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Just like my good buddy on another forum said,.... “if you ask what steak is the best in town, you’re going to learn you really want fried chicken..”
Todd
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Just like my good buddy on another forum said,.... “if you ask what steak is the best in town, you’re going to learn you really want fried chicken..”
Todd In my post I asked why the decision on 220 grain and PT at that, and included the statement about others advising a 200 gr PT's . I also suggested just C&C 220 gr bullet because in over 30 years of using a2 20 Gr C&C bullet I have killed more than a few elk with them and can't remember a failure. If one is talking about long distance shooting, the 220gr that is shown in the Nosler manual is an excellent choice as it retains more down range enery than lighter bullets. I don't have ballistic tables in front of me,but I believe that is true with velocity too. Many times people ask questions on these forums to get diverse opinions and experience. A lot of times,we don't know what we don't know and some obvious facts are pointed out that may help. The OP was concerned about sending more 220 GR PT down range than needed to get a load worked up. My suggestion of using C&C bullets for initial loading solves that problem. I did the same with 180GR PT's using 180 gr Sierra Match Kings and it works very well Myself,I always welcome different advise than what I am thinking.
Last edited by saddlesore; 12/01/19.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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FWIW, I've used 200 gr. NPT extensively on antelope, deer, black bear, elk, and moose, out of 3006 and 300 H&H with the expected results, it's ALWAYS a viable option.
However, just so happens I hunt a lot, alone, in griz country and base my desire to use 220 gr NPT in part on Phil's tests, but also others who like me who care less about long range BC, SD, velocity, drop etc., just want the best result when up close and personal.
Want a 3006 load that will be just about as effective as a 338 w/o the recoil and rifle weight.
And spare the "well then use a 338 you wimp" replies, I've considerable experience with 300-338-375 magnums and don't want, as already stated, the rifle weight or recoil.
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I used the old Barnes 250 gr RN in my 06 shot a Raghorn Elk with the load above it going for a spine shot it stepped up at the shot got it in the horn base split its skull, second shot not needed.
Kinda neat in my Rem 760 shot to 100 yard zero, and 180 gr load was 2.5" hi.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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Can't help with your ask for a load of at least 2400 fps. I settled on tweaking the Nosler suggested load for H4831 because it shoots so well out of my barrel at around 2300 fps.
And to help swage my sadness over practicing with a bunch of expensive NPT's I just load up a bunch of blems and have at it.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
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[quote=murkydismal
However, just so happens I hunt a lot, alone, in griz country and base my desire to use 220 gr NPT in part on Phil's tests, but also others who like me who care less about long range BC, SD, velocity, drop etc., just want the best result when up close and personal.
Want a 3006 load that will be just about as effective as a 338 w/o the recoil and rifle weight.[/quote]
That is as good as reason as any Murkydismal. My 220 gr RN bullet loads get scoffed at a lot, but in heavy nasty timber at 50 feet being a long shot,they thump elk pretty darn good.
They sure thump the shooter to, but because I had a shoulder replaced, I now have a brake on my .06, and the recoil is not too bad.
No offense intended.
Last edited by saddlesore; 12/01/19.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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I load 58&1/2 gr of H4831 in my Model 70 Pre-64 FWT behind 220gr Sierra RN and it is safe in my gun.Might not be in yours.Mine chronied at 2450-2500. Work up to this load. A lot of guys say you can't put enough 4831 in an .O6 case to be dangerous,but that isn't entirely true when you get to the 220 grainers
I'd buy a box of 220 gr , C&C RN, workup your load. When satisfied, switch to the NPT and tweak it . You will be darn close. What is your M70's barrel length saddlesore? I've got some Sierra 220's for my Ruger MKII 30-06. They've been sitting on the shelf for some years now. I bet the Sierra's will be close to the same POI as the Nozlers like you say. I just ran them both through RCBS.Load external ballistics calculator using equal muzzle velocity of 2500 fps and 200 yd zero. They track each other within .01" to .02" drop out to 300 yards: 2.7" high @ 100 yds, 0" @ 200 yds, -4.4 @ 250 yds, -11.14" @ 300 yds.
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I bet the Sierra's will be close to the same POI as the Nozlers like you say. I just ran them both through RCBS.Load external ballistics calculator using equal muzzle velocity of 2500 fps and 200 yd zero.
They track each other within .01" to .02" drop out to 300 yards: 2.7" high @ 100 yds, 0" @ 200 yds, -4.4 @ 250 yds, -11.14" @ 300 yds.
Mine is pre 64 Model 70FWT, I am thinking 22" but actually never measured it.I will do that tomorrow and re-post. Checked.Mine is 22" Plus Muzzle Brake
Last edited by saddlesore; 12/02/19.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Here's what H4831 behind the 22gr NPT looks like out of a 24" barrel. You get to 2600 just fine within pressures handled by a Winchester Model 70. ADI AR2213 is H4831. I find it to model more accurately in QL:
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 220, Nosler PART SPSemi 16332
Useable Case Capaci: 58.332 grain H2O = 3.787 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : ADI AR 2213
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.862% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-08.6 98 53.00 2370 2743 44740 9284 94.4 1.426
-07.8 98 53.50 2394 2799 46095 9380 94.8 1.406
-06.9 99 54.00 2418 2856 47501 9473 95.2 1.387
-06.0 100 54.50 2442 2914 48953 9563 95.7 1.368
-05.2 101 55.00 2466 2972 50454 9650 96.0 1.349
-04.3 102 55.50 2491 3031 52008 9735 96.4 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
-03.4 103 56.00 2515 3090 53617 9816 96.8 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 104 56.50 2539 3150 55281 9895 97.1 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 105 57.00 2564 3211 57006 9970 97.5 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 106 57.50 2588 3273 58792 10042 97.8 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 58.00 2613 3335 60645 10110 98.0 1.242 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 108 58.50 2637 3397 62565 10175 98.3 1.224 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.7 109 59.00 2662 3461 64556 10237 98.6 1.208 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 109 59.50 2686 3525 66623 10294 98.8 1.191 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.4 110 60.00 2711 3589 68768 10348 99.0 1.175 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 111 60.50 2735 3654 70997 10398 99.2 1.159 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
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Mine is pre 64 Model 70FWT, I am thinking 22" but actually never measured it.I will do that tomorrow and re-post Thanks saddlesore. My Ruger has a 22" barrel. That Quickload's a nifty toy. Hodgdon shows a 24" barrel and the Hornady 220 gr getting 2458 fps from 57.5 gr H4831 compressed as another data point.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Pressure Test Equipment at Nosler suggested lower pressures with H4831 SC than your QuickLoad program shows...
Their's showed 61 grains still to be below SAAMI specs...
another reason I use stuff like that as a guide... not a bible..
I let the rifle itself, tell me what it is comfortable with... and the primer pocket when reloading the case again..
but thanks for posting that Sniper...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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There’s nothing wrong with 220 Partitions. It’s the most accurate bullet in one of my 300 Winchesters.
The Nosler Partitions are much more accurate in my testing than other 220 grain bullets that I’ve used. Those tests include 30-06, 300 Winchester and 300 Weatherby.
For some hunters most of their shots are less than 50 yards. I can’t think of a better bullet in an ‘06 for dangerous game for up close and personal.
I like H4831sc a lot and think that it might often be as good as it gets.
Using the best bullet for your hunting style may not be the best bullet for another’s.
Go for it!
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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you can get 2600 out of one, using H4831SC....
Thread from many years ago, I posted that and as per usual got flamed... until a guy from Nosler, who was their chief ballistician at the time....
He agreed with the post, and also pointed out that they did have pressure testing equipment...
as he stated on that long ago thread... "you can't get enough 4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI Specs"
you need to give it a light crimp, to keep the bullet from slowly backing out, as it is a compressed load...
but it won't loosen a primer pocket... LOL, yes, it was Chub Eastman, I can easily take 200gr partitions to 2800 fps with H-4831SC and a drop tube, did it safely many times with my old 24" barreled '06.
Trump Won!
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Just tried the Barnes 250 in my pre war 06. Lapua cases that are headstamped “100 years of the 30/06”, Winchester large rifle primers, 55 grains of H4831sc. Average was 2328 snd an SD of 15. Good accuracy at 26 degrees. 54 grains shot a little better but no chrono readings. Pretty dark this afternoon snd the sun is low.
Ought to be a great bear load this spring. Normally run 220 Hornady or partitions in this rifle but I have these on the shelf.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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you can get 2600 out of one, using H4831SC....
Thread from many years ago, I posted that and as per usual got flamed... until a guy from Nosler, who was their chief ballistician at the time....
He agreed with the post, and also pointed out that they did have pressure testing equipment...
as he stated on that long ago thread... "you can't get enough 4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI Specs"
you need to give it a light crimp, to keep the bullet from slowly backing out, as it is a compressed load...
but it won't loosen a primer pocket... LOL, yes, it was Chub Eastman, I can easily take 200gr partitions to 2800 fps with H-4831SC and a drop tube, did it safely many times with my old 24" barreled '06. Gunner, just seeing this one... I hesitate to post my findings, due to the usual crowds that love to flame someone, so they can appear they are smarter... I've got a couple of Enfields still in 06... sporterized.. one is a Winchester built and the other a Remington Built... not an Eddystone.. They still have the 26 inch barrels.. one, the Winchester, is still a 1918 made barrel... 200 grain Speers and Noslers with 4831Sc, clock 2950 fps out of the 26 inch barrel... and 2900 out of the 24 inch barreled one... in testing, the brass used on either, have been reloaded 10 times and still had tight primer pockets.. Enfield is my favorite action.. not as stylish as the Springfield action, but the Enfield is built like a 53 Buick.. which is why I love it so much...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Only problem I ever ran into with the 220NP was when I tried to load it for a Mod 70 FWT ( Douglas barrel). I was limited by the magazine length and when seated over a heavily compressed charge, the seating plug made a big circular dent in the nose. I didn't trust them to open right. They might have and about then I found another rifle for what I was after.
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