Ironic this follows the other thread, where a CCH died. And yet, our keyboard hero's step up.
#1 Keep myself alive. I don't want to die, my family needs me, and if I get all Rambo and die, it won't help the other people there.
#2 Its just money, not mine, and probably insured. A robery isn't usually a shooting, why make it one?
#3 I'm not, nor have ever been a cop. Recent events have changed the historical norm, but these situations are why we revere cops. Their historical duty was to step up, putting their life on the line to protect others and enforce the law. I'm just a civilian.
#4 If someone is in reasonable danger of death or serious bodily injury (the legal self defense standard for years) then action is necessary.
Idaho is pretty liberal on self defense. You can use a gun to defend yourself, your family, your home, your property, and your place of work. Stores aren't on the list.
If hes pointing a gun at the cashier when you shoot, who would you be defending?
In this state and most states, it doesn't matter. The law is "self defense and defense of others". In your scenario the perps clearly committing a violent felony, so again, you are well within your right to act, at least in this state....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
The turd pullls a gun, he has ability to cause great bodily harm or death to an innocent human being. He is across the counter from his victim, he has the opportunity to do so. A reasonable person would recognize that the jeopardy is imminent. In the presence of those circumstances and lacking other similar threats I would attempt to get an angle where I could pop him in the melon w/o threat to others and do the deed.Years of deliberate practice for this type of confrontation yields a certain level of confidence.
There are so many variables in real life that this is a very simplistic scenario and response. I try to prepare to respond but every situation requires an appropriate solution that does not make the situation worse. To not act out of fear of anything other than degrading the problem is incomprehensible to me.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
Idaho is pretty liberal on self defense. You can use a gun to defend yourself, your family, your home, your property, and your place of work. Stores aren't on the list.
If hes pointing a gun at the cashier when you shoot, who would you be defending?
In this state and most states, it doesn't matter. The law is "self defense and defense of others". In your scenario the perps clearly committing a violent felony, so again, you are well within your right to act, at least in this state....
Idaho is pretty liberal on self defense. You can use a gun to defend yourself, your family, your home, your property, and your place of work. Stores aren't on the list.
If hes pointing a gun at the cashier when you shoot, who would you be defending?
In this state and most states, it doesn't matter. The law is "self defense and defense of others". In your scenario the perps clearly committing a violent felony, so again, you are well within your right to act, at least in this state....
Good to know.
How would one find that info for their own state?
Colorado post all their state statues on line. I imagine you can find Montana's on line as well.
Truth is, "Defense of self and others" is the standard in the vast majority, if not every states.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
#1 be a good witness. #2 don't draw on a drawn gun. #3 no property is worth any life, even a criminals. #4 run when you can, fight when you must. #5 if you have to fight, win.
If I had the presence of mind take cover behind my vehicle and roll video on my cell phone. Try to get a good angle on the perp and video the license plate of the get away car or direction of travel if perp was on foot. Call the police. That's their job. My concealed carry handgun is to respond to direct threats against me. Not the population at large.
This.
This is what they taught us in my CCW class. Don't interfere unless you or ouuirs are having their lives threatened.
+1. Chances are, the robber gets his money and leaves with no one being hurt. That's what happens almost all the time. Draw your pistol and confront the guy in a crowded store and you may cause a tragedy when there was no need to.
Why would anyone use deadly force to defend property (money) that doesn't belong to them?
Deadly force was not to be used to stop a theft, but could be used to defend another person if they were in grave danger.
Getting robbed? No
Getting robbed with a gun? Yes
Getting robbed with a bat? ??????
I bet in any case......there will be a trial coming.
Jim, each state has different laws but many are based on defense against death or great bodily injury to an INNOCENT human being w/ the Reasonable Man Doctrine being used in most states. It is very unusual for defense of property of any sort to warrant deadly force. If someone threatens me or mine[human] w/ a bat he will get shot if perceived as an imminent threat.
In the jurisdiction in which I live legitimate self defense rarely results in an arrest let alone indictment and trial. Never speak to the police outside of the presence of a carefully selected attorney.
Try to find a competent instructor that teaches the law as it is administered in reality, as opposed to one who fears liability more than being a victim.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
If I was right behind the guy with the gun (or knife) threatening the clerk I would him shoot him in the back of his head (brain stem) or behind his ear.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
If I had the presence of mind take cover behind my vehicle and roll video on my cell phone. Try to get a good angle on the perp and video the license plate of the get away car or direction of travel if perp was on foot. Call the police. That's their job. My concealed carry handgun is to respond to direct threats against me. Not the population at large.
This.
Our staff were advised to be a good witness when they were off duty. In your scenario you don't know if the perp will shoot the victim or not, assuming that they don't shoot gather and record as many facts as you can.
If it starts to turn violent you know what to do. Agency people will have representation if it is a good shoot.
Everyone else can have a good shoot and still have to foot the bill for an attorney ....
If I had the presence of mind take cover behind my vehicle and roll video on my cell phone. Try to get a good angle on the perp and video the license plate of the get away car or direction of travel if perp was on foot. Call the police. That's their job. My concealed carry handgun is to respond to direct threats against me. Not the population at large.
This.
This is what they taught us in my CCW class. Don't interfere unless you or ouuirs are having their lives threatened.
This!
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
If I had the presence of mind take cover behind my vehicle and roll video on my cell phone. Try to get a good angle on the perp and video the license plate of the get away car or direction of travel if perp was on foot. Call the police. That's their job. My concealed carry handgun is to respond to direct threats against me. Not the population at large.
This.
This is what they taught us in my CCW class. Don't interfere unless you or ouuirs are having their lives threatened.
This!
Good advice. That’s what I taught my students in my 25 years of teaching the TX CHL Course. Personally, I’m good with that unless the Perp is killing innocents. Only then will I take action if possible.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Each situation is unique and any action is contingent upon ones perspective of capabilities of the perp(s) and their own. Last thing I will factor into such things is concern for legal repercussions. If I think some jerk needs to be put down I'll do my best to make it happen.
Thank you Mr. Colt.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
#1 be a good witness. #2 don't draw on a drawn gun. #3 no property is worth any life, even a criminals. #4 run when you can, fight when you must. #5 if you have to fight, win.
It is a heavy responsibility. I have a permit, but seldom carry. I have had guns drawn on me two times in my life and all lived another day. If I had been carrying in either instance I’m pretty sure that would not have been the outcome .
If I had the presence of mind take cover behind my vehicle and roll video on my cell phone. Try to get a good angle on the perp and video the license plate of the get away car or direction of travel if perp was on foot. Call the police. That's their job. My concealed carry handgun is to respond to direct threats against me. Not the population at large.
Correctimundo!
If you shoot the SOB, he or his family members are going to sue the living crap out of you, there are plenty of ambulance chasers that will take the case on a percentage basis. It's not worth risking $100,000 in legal fees to save your house, business, etc., unless murder is happening and you're next.
Imagine a corporate oligarchy so effective, so advanced and fine tuned that its citizens still call it a democracy.
As to the original scenario. The criminal steps in front of shoppers and pulls a gun on the clerk. You are armed and have no doubt about what is happening. This is no confused situation and an armed robber has pulled a gun and has his back to other shoppers. He is crazy or at least very reckless. No telling what is next. Every situation is different and restraint is a good idea usually. In this case, smoke him from behind real quick.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Ive turned up at a bank with robbery in progress, masked men carrying cash bags out and loading them into a vehicle....banks property and problem not mine.
I didn't know how many more assailants were inside and I wasn't going to find out if the ones outside had something under their jackets. .. I couldn't see anyone facing direct threat of deadly force.
It was a very busy street, if you engaged them you could potentially start a flurry of wild desperate shooting where innocents get killed or seriously injured as result.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
