Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ?

I have down browning, and thought all bluing was hot blue.

Now I’m reading about cold rust bluing - which sounds like it would take forever but might be worth a run just to see what it’s like.

Disclaimer, I’m setting up for Cerakote, I have a TP tools blasting cabinet, and building a Cerakote oven, time wise I’ll do cerakote, but it’s hard to beat how really nice blueing look IMHO.

Look into the Brownell's modified rust blue process called "Dicropan IM" It's a solution that's applied after doing a polishing and degreasing procedure and immersing the treated parts in boiling water for 5 minutes. A heavy surface rust forms, which is carded off with degreased 4-0 steel wool. It takes at least 5 or 6 applications, but the resulting blue is deep and durable. A Swedish Mauser that I blued that way in 1986 still has the blue in good condition, and I haven't pampered it.
Jerry

Cerakote is not worth the effort IME&O.

I have done it, not on an entire gun but significant parts - butt plate, lever, etc., with excellent results. I have a friend who has done several rifles.

It isn't difficult, doesn't require expensive equipment, but it is time consuming and tedious, requires patience and attention to detail.

Between rust bluing and Cerakote, they are almost in a different universe, philosophically speaking.

Paul

I haven’t had any seen anyone polish metal for blueing, this is the biggest thing that bothers me with trying it...
I may see if I can find a blueing class where they teach it.

I have a 1700 RPM buffer, and software wheels to do it but like I said... this is new to me.

Sisal buffing wheels are the most aggressive, followed by muslin and hard felt. Stack up several 1/2" wide wheels on a mandrel to make a buffing surface 1 1/2 or 2 inches wide. You will need separate wheels for each grit of polishing compound, because no matter how carefully you clean a buffing wheel, a few particles of compound will remain to leave scratches as you move to finer grits of polish. I have wheels with 180, 220, 320, and 400 grit "greaseless" compound, and a hard felt wheel with 1,000 grit grease-based compound for final polishing if I'm going for a mirror finish. If I'm doing a boiling water blue, I stop at a 400 grit finish. The Dicropan doesn't like to work well with mirror polished parts. For polishing supplies check out some of the websites that sell knife making blanks and equipment- - - -they're a little less expensive than Brownell's. Jantz Supply is a good source for polishing equipment and supplies. One of these days I might step up to a Baldor commercial buffer, but at age 73, it's not likely. The greaseless polishing compound I use is sold under the brand name "Polish-O-Ray" and it's available on Ebay. I built my own polishing buffer from a 1/3 HP electric motor and a set of pillow blocks with a drive belt. I have a 3-step pulley on the motor to change the speed of the polishing wheels. I've been using it for nearly 30 years with no problems whatsoever, and it's polished hundreds of parts in that time.
Jerry

I don't think I've ever heard of a community college or any similar facility that has a gunsmithing class. How about hitting a gun show or a pawn shop and picking up a beater gun from the bargain tack to practice on? The book by John Traister- - - -"Gunsmithing At Home- - - -Lock Stock And Barrel" has a good bit of information on metal polishing. One that's out of print but still available on the used book market is "Do It Yourself Gunsmithing" by Jim Carmichael. Both of those books were very useful back when I wanted a custom rifle, couldn't afford one, and had to teach myself to do it.

One final tip- - - -rookie metal polishers have a habit of rounding off corners and polishing away stamped lettering. Only do what's necessary to get a good smooth finish and remove all the old bluing- - - -a too-aggressive polishing job is very obvious to somebody who has been doing bluing for a while, and it can really devalue an heirloom gun.
Jerry

I've used the brownells rust blue, but wasn't aware of a cold way to do it. Basically prep, apply the rust solution, let it rust in a humidity chamber, boil or steam, card off

The C&R arsenal guys have great videos of the process

The Dicropan IM system requires immersing the parts in boiling water, so it's not a "cold" process, but it eliminates the need for rusting in a hot box. Once the parts are polished, I can blue a complete gun using that process in a couple of days. The best cold blue I've ever used is Brownell's "Oxpho-Blue" paste. Warm up the parts with a heat gun or a hair dryer until they're uncomfortable to touch, and blot- - - -don't wipe the Oxpho paste on. Repeat as necessary to get the desired color. After 24 hours of cure time, lightly oil the blued surface. It's great for touching up holster wear, etc. but not so great for doing a whole gun.
Jerry

I am not an expert on this, although I was a gunsmith's flunky and I would advise to proceed only if you have great patience and have a finicky nature. It is a task fraught with peril for someone who wants to 'git er done'. Some tips I did learn: no effort is too great in the degreasing stages, every single screw hole, dovetail, nook and cranny need to be thoroughly attended to. Harsh chemical washing is almost a must (forget quick and easy brake cleaner), Oakite, mixed per instructions was an effective cleaner and the acid in it preps the steel. The "sweat box" must be used in a room of near constant temperature, day and night, condensation causing drips and runs can ruin the job. Don't get carried away with polishing, the higher the polish the more difficult to get a uniform job. The fellow I worked for specialized in rebarrelling Brownings and 1st generation Weatherbys. His work was well regarded. I recall that he dreaded rust blueing high nickel content actions, matching barrel and action were difficult at best.

The actual bluing can be done in the kitchen- nothing more objectionable than boiling water, no evil smells, etc. The real grime and labor comes with the polishing. Don't for heaven's sake have at it with buffing wheels- you will smear/dull the lettering, destroy the sharp edges, and give the steel a rippled look, unless you are a pro and even then I wouldn't allow it done to any of my guns. Work through the grits with hard/semi-hard backers, and stop when you complete the 400-grit stage. Proceed with rust bluing. Follow maker's directions. Construct a sweat box out of scrap plywood big enough to suspend a barreled action inside it, place a hot plate in the bottom on lowest heat setting with a pan of distilled water on it- the goal is to create a sort of damp environment not a hot fuggy one. Card the rust with oil-free 0000 steel wool after boiling/steaming in distilled water. Repeat as necessary to achieve a uniform color- usually (for me) anywhere from four to six applications. Degreasing before bluing is important, but no great voodoo is required- for years I have merely washed with acetone and kept a box of fresh nitrile gloves handy for handling the polished/degreased steel parts, and have enjoyed complete success.

There are doers, watchers, talkers, and Monday morning quarterbacks. I have been taking advice from people who have actually done things successfully for the past 40-something years, and then gone ahead to learn the skills necessary to make things happen. That has worked well for me while building race-winning round track engines, guns, machining, welding, industrial maintenance, and commercial cooking.
Jerry

Yep. When I took the plunge years ago I was confronted with detailed instructions full of a lot of mumbo-jumbo involving lots of equipment I didn't have nor felt like buying. There's always a solution. For example: I didn't have a long steel pan and suitable heat source for boiling a barreled action in. I simply took a piece of PVC pipe long enough and big enough in diameter, capped one end, suspended the barreled action in it and filled it with boiling water from a big pan on the stove. Removed 5-10 minutes later, carded off the black "fuzz" with Liberon oil-free 0000 steel wool, re-rusted, repeated a few more times and ended up with a super looking job. Since then I've been able to afford a "proper" tank and fancy propane burner system but I didn't get it- I stick with the PVC pipe. Probably a dozen rifles and a handful of shotgun double barrels later it still works. Small parts get boiled in an old stainless steel sauce pan.

I had a choice between a nice soft carding wheel (not real cheap, from Brownell's) for use in the drill press, or a wad of cabinet grade oil-free steel wool. I went cheap with the steel wool and am still using it, and actually prefer it now.

Like I said before, and I bet others will agree, the act of actual bluing is a no-brainer. What makes a difference in the final product is the prep work- polishing- beforehand.

Anybody use Laurel Mountain Barrel Brown and Degreaser? Easy to use, no damp box with normal humidity and it always gave me a nice fine grained brown. One of the old luminaries, Bivens I think, speculated in an article that the stuff would work out very well for rust bluing, but that's all I heard. The stuff sure is easy to use for browning.

I would not use a buffing wheel either. The buffer has to be of good quality (expensive) Any wobble or imbalance will show up in the work and it takes quite a bit of power to spin a wheel with all that friction.The things are hard to control without lots of practice. And you're not looking for a mirror finish anyway. All sources say what Gnoahh said, go no finer than 400 grit. Which makes sense, the first thing rusting would do is destroy all that nice, mirror finish.

Maybe a lot of years of doing lapidary work on semi-precious stones like agate, Tiger Eye, and various other materials for making cabochon jewelry helped me avoid all the dreadful consequences of power polishing metal that everybody seems to fear like the boogeyman. Getting a mirror finish on gun parts with 555 polish before having another smith with a hot blue system dunk 'em is my way of getting a finish better than matte or semi-gloss. That has worked for me for over 30 years. I did invest the 30 bucks for a 6" carding wheel with .002" diameter wires- - - - -it paid for itself in labor time on the first job I used it on, and the rest of the time saved since then has been icing on the cake. One of my students found a 4X8 foot sheet of 16 gauge stainless steel lying in the street and gave it to me- - - - -it made four 6 X 6 X 36 inch boiling tanks for the cost of getting a welding shop to cut and bend the material and weld the ends on.

I brown with Laurel Mountain all the time- - - - -it works great! I've never tried it for bluing- - - - -Dicropan IM works too well for me to try anything else.
Jerry

I did a 1950’s wingmaster using the laurel mountain forge barrel browning but following their instructions for rust blue. It turned out great. They claim no degreasing required but I did anyway to be sure. The instructions can be pulled off their website.

I am getting ready to do a Hawken rust blue and am going to test the no degrease method. My only advice is to not polish too much or it won’t take. I sanded some parts with finer than 600 grit and it didn’t take as well as the stuff I used coasrer paper on. I wouldn’t go any finer than 400.

Probably. I gave it a try with a good bench grinder (not good enough for real work) on black powder and small pieces so I didn't ruin anything important, and it's all technique in keeping the edges sharp and the flats wave free. Much like the dreaded Dremel. A marvelously handy tool for gunsmithing but if you don't know the tool it lets you screw up equally marvelously and at high speed.

And to pass on a rumor, it's been said that polishing on a buffer closes the pores of the metal and it won't take the browning solution properly. I don't quite believe that but hell, I don't know. For the price of a basic buffing setup you can buy a hellofalot of sandpaper.

I used Laurel Mountain a couple times. Worked great. Last few projects was with stuff called Rust Blue. (Imagine that for a name!) Google it. He sells a bunch of different solutions geared toward meeting your final expectations, and mixes your stuff, like, a minute before he ships it so it's fresh as possible. More expensive than Laurel or Brownell's, but I feel it gives a better job. And after all, if I have an ungodly number of hours invested in prep work the last thing I want to do is go cheap at the end.

Thanks, got one of those "some day" projects in the works that would be best with a nice rust blue, nice to hear a good report. I also degrase before browning with the stuff but perhaps not so thoroughly. Word is that a powerful detergent was added to the basic solution and I don't want to test it's limits. Mainly I don't have to take all those skin oil from handling precautions that are in the old gunsmithing books.

Thanks gnoahh, I'll keep that in mind. It's a project to make a classic style full length stock Mauser on an Argie action with refinements like a good single set trigger that don't really fit classic but tickle my fancy. Project startd but life intervened. Someday...

I've got the old Neidner formula and rust bluing process around here somewhere, as described by Shelhaemer I think, and oh my what a fear of the slightest trace of oil in getting the"panther piss" to strike. It's a nitric acid based concoction, ask for that and you're immediately under suspicion as a bomb maker these days.