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Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Girlhunter] #14331596 12/02/19
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Originally Posted by Girlhunter
Originally Posted by jwp475


As MacKay Sagebrush says "you get the fight you get not the fight you want" fact is faster bullet speeds penetrate car doors better than slower rounds.



So a 40gr Vmax is a better at punching through car doors than say a 75gr TSX?


I see your attempt at derailing the thread, but the fact is - yes that is correct, other than the fact there is no .223 75gr TSX to compare with your 40gr Vmax. Assuming you mean the 70gr TSX though - yes, a 40gr at higher velocity will punch through thicker steel (or aluminum) plate than a slower 70-75gr bullet. That is the opposite of what they do in meat where the heavier bullet usually can penetrate better.

Same is true for 9mm. For example, a couple of my loads are a 100gr hard cast bullet at 1450 fps, and a 180gr hard cast at 900 fps. Both have similar meplat size and are cast from the same alloy. The 100gr load will punch through 1/4" aluminum plate easily and blow up a couple water jugs on the back side, while the 180 gr won't make it through the plate at all, or several layers of thinner sheet metal. On the other hand, the 180gr penetrates a long way in soft media, much further than the 100gr fast bullet.

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Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Birdwatcher] #14333291 12/03/19
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Same is true for 9mm. For example, a couple of my loads are a 100gr hard cast bullet at 1450 fps, and a 180gr hard cast at 900 fps. Both have similar meplat size and are cast from the same alloy. The 100gr load will punch through 1/4" aluminum plate easily and blow up a couple water jugs on the back side, while the 180 gr won't make it through the plate at all, or several layers of thinner sheet metal. On the other hand, the 180gr penetrates a long way in soft media, much further than the 100gr fast bullet.


Thank you Sir for this info cool

My own preferred loads in 9mm are the various 147 grain bullets. My concerns are different than most here. When doing paid bird counts I frequently end up in close proximity to feral hogs in locations where they are not hunted or shot, and consequently display a reduced fear of humans. At the same time, accessing randomly assigned count points often has me pushing through dense cover. Numerous times I have flushed resting hogs at close range, they do not seem to react to the sound of my approach pushing through the brush and undercover.

In the past 30 years only ever had a problem with one; a large boar that was reluctant to yield the path.

At the same time going armed is frowned upon by the employer, so I go concealed carry, preferred handgun at present is a Springfield Armory XDs (cap. 9+1).

In the brush I carry Buffalo Bore 147gr lead solids, everywhere else similar velocity hollowpoints. If I ever am jumped by a hog, hopefully ten rounds of them Buffalo Bores at point blank range will get it done.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Yondering] #14333723 12/03/19
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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Girlhunter
Originally Posted by jwp475


As MacKay Sagebrush says "you get the fight you get not the fight you want" fact is faster bullet speeds penetrate car doors better than slower rounds.



So a 40gr Vmax is a better at punching through car doors than say a 75gr TSX?


I see your attempt at derailing the thread, but the fact is - yes that is correct, other than the fact there is no .223 75gr TSX to compare with your 40gr Vmax. Assuming you mean the 70gr TSX though - yes, a 40gr at higher velocity will punch through thicker steel (or aluminum) plate than a slower 70-75gr bullet. That is the opposite of what they do in meat where the heavier bullet usually can penetrate better.

Same is true for 9mm. For example, a couple of my loads are a 100gr hard cast bullet at 1450 fps, and a 180gr hard cast at 900 fps. Both have similar meplat size and are cast from the same alloy. The 100gr load will punch through 1/4" aluminum plate easily and blow up a couple water jugs on the back side, while the 180 gr won't make it through the plate at all, or several layers of thinner sheet metal. On the other hand, the 180gr penetrates a long way in soft media, much further than the 100gr fast bullet.



Spot on! It seems that most do not realize that it takes speed to penetrate steel. A 55 grain varmint bullet at 3600 FPS will penetrate completely through 3/8" steel st 50 yards a 240 grain at 1400 FOS from a 44 will not, yet on a pig the 44 will penetrate deeper



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Birdwatcher] #14334488 12/03/19
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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Quote
Same is true for 9mm. For example, a couple of my loads are a 100gr hard cast bullet at 1450 fps, and a 180gr hard cast at 900 fps. Both have similar meplat size and are cast from the same alloy. The 100gr load will punch through 1/4" aluminum plate easily and blow up a couple water jugs on the back side, while the 180 gr won't make it through the plate at all, or several layers of thinner sheet metal. On the other hand, the 180gr penetrates a long way in soft media, much further than the 100gr fast bullet.


Thank you Sir for this info cool

My own preferred loads in 9mm are the various 147 grain bullets. My concerns are different than most here. When doing paid bird counts I frequently end up in close proximity to feral hogs in locations where they are not hunted or shot, and consequently display a reduced fear of humans. At the same time, accessing randomly assigned count points often has me pushing through dense cover. Numerous times I have flushed resting hogs at close range, they do not seem to react to the sound of my approach pushing through the brush and undercover.

In the past 30 years only ever had a problem with one; a large boar that was reluctant to yield the path.

At the same time going armed is frowned upon by the employer, so I go concealed carry, preferred handgun at present is a Springfield Armory XDs (cap. 9+1).

In the brush I carry Buffalo Bore 147gr lead solids, everywhere else similar velocity hollowpoints. If I ever am jumped by a hog, hopefully ten rounds of them Buffalo Bores at point blank range will get it done.


I prefer and carry the lighter faster 9mm loads for my own use, but for what you describe, sounds like heavy solids are the way to go. Good example how one guy's needs are different than others.

What is a "paid bird count" though? I'm not familiar with that term.

Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Yondering] #14335629 12/03/19
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Originally Posted by Yondering

What is a "paid bird count" though?


Exactly that, where one is paid under contract to go out and count and or census birds present and/or in certain cases evaluate the habitat. Paid for by environmental consultants, , non-profits or varying levels of government entities. Nowhere near close enough to make a living, but like free money to a guy like me.

Lots of people are hobbyist bird watchers but it can be surprisingly hard to find a relative expert like myself who will also scrupulously follow count and data reporting protocols.

Or keep close company with feral hogs 🙂

You get a reputation for delivering what you said you would. I get a call or two most years, dunno how much longer I’ll have the ears for it tho.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Birdwatcher] #14335645 12/03/19
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Interesting, I learned something new today. Thanks for the reply.

Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Yondering] #14364584 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Girlhunter


So a 40gr Vmax is a better at punching through car doors than say a 75gr TSX?


I see your attempt at derailing the thread, but the fact is - yes that is correct, other than the fact there is no .223 75gr TSX to compare with your 40gr Vmax. Assuming you mean the 70gr TSX though - yes, a 40gr at higher velocity will punch through thicker steel (or aluminum) plate than a slower 70-75gr bullet. That is the opposite of what they do in meat where the heavier bullet usually can penetrate better.


I want to follow up to this post again with some photo evidence, although I've posted the picture here in other threads already. This is a 32gr 20 Tactical @ 3900 fps on top vs a 75gr 5.56 @ 2650 fps on the bottom. (The 20 Tactical is basically just the 223 case necked down to 20.) 5/16" high strength steel plate. That 75gr 223 definitely penetrates better in soft tissue, but the roles are reversed on hard surfaces like steel. With that said - penetration of multiple layers is different, but in the case of light/fast 9mm vs heavy/slow 9mm the light/fast loads usually still do better.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Yondering; 12/12/19.
Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Yondering] #14364762 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Girlhunter


So a 40gr Vmax is a better at punching through car doors than say a 75gr TSX?


I see your attempt at derailing the thread, but the fact is - yes that is correct, other than the fact there is no .223 75gr TSX to compare with your 40gr Vmax. Assuming you mean the 70gr TSX though - yes, a 40gr at higher velocity will punch through thicker steel (or aluminum) plate than a slower 70-75gr bullet. That is the opposite of what they do in meat where the heavier bullet usually can penetrate better.


I want to follow up to this post again with some photo evidence, although I've posted the picture here in other threads already. This is a 32gr 20 Tactical @ 3900 fps on top vs a 75gr 5.56 @ 2650 fps on the bottom. (The 20 Tactical is basically just the 223 case necked down to 20.) 5/16" high strength steel plate. That 75gr 223 definitely penetrates better in soft tissue, but the roles are reversed on hard surfaces like steel. With that said - penetration of multiple layers is different, but in the case of light/fast 9mm vs heavy/slow 9mm the light/fast loads usually still do better.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Spot on, speed penetrates steel better than slower



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Birdwatcher] #14365189 12/12/19
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I will definitely be blasting more steel with this little 20 cal laser beam, to see what it does. No pics, but it cratered a 1/2" piece of AR400 pretty good the other day. Maybe 1/4"-3/8" deep? Didn't go through, but looked like a 308 on similar sized mild steel plate. I'll be sacrificing a piece of AR500 as well to see what happens, once max loads are developed, and maybe try a 24gr @ 4,400-ish for fun. Pics will be posted at some point.

Re: 185gr 9mm: 849fps from a 3.1” barrel [Re: Yondering] #14365304 12/12/19
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Most likely 4,400 FPS will make a hole in your AR500 plate.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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