24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14331815 12/02/19
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,136
H
Hotrod_Lincoln Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
H
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,136
One of my tanks is a dedicated degreaser. I use a strong solution of Trisodium Phosphate (concrete cleaner) and water heated to just below boiling, maybe 180-190 degrees. If you want to pay three times as much for a brand name, buy the degreaser Brownell's calls "Dichro-Clean"- - -it's the same stuff! 10 minutes in that solution, then a dip in boiling water to rinse the degreaser off, and from that point on I use nitrile gloves to handle the parts.
Jerry


Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever!
BP-B2

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14331869 12/02/19
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
See, all that hoo-ha and handling for 5-6 rusting/cardings is what got me thinking the Laurel Mountain stuff. I hate re-work. But the stuff gnoahh mentioned souns like it may be worth the trouble. Anyways I have time to agonize over it until I get that far. (Like agonizing on whether or not to have the action re-heat treated. smile )


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14332271 12/02/19
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
C
Craigster Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
C
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
It's not hard to do, but it is time consuming, and attention to detail is important.

Excellent info/supplies here:

http://www.rustblue.com/about/instructions/

I've used 2 or 3 solutions, Bob's work very well.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14332287 12/02/19
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
gnoahhh Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
Sounds like a neat project. What's the story behind the single set trigger? Rare beasts on Mausers.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: nighthawk] #14332642 12/02/19
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,998
P
plainsman456 Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,998
Back when me and my pardner did bluing we tried to gather up more than one or two guns to do at once.

It helps spread out the cost of the stuff needed to jet them looking good.

A good job can be done with cold bluing if the parts are heated up hot to the touch.

As for the barrels we used scotchbrite.

The fine stuff didn't scratch.

IC-A

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14332720 12/02/19
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
gnoahh, It's one Brownell's sold, by golly I don't recall if its the NECG they list now but it was supposed to be a very good normal trigger if you work with it. The set part appealed to me back when I was enamored with light triggers. The idea was my idea of the ultimate East River SD deer rifle. I've always liked the lines of a full stock so it's that with a Shilen (#3?) barrel in .270. 20" barrel which Mule Deer said should work. Got a nice stock from the previous incarnation of Richard's so plenty of meat to work with. Not spectacular but better than good. One thing I want to try is a nice checkered bubinga burl inlay under skeletonized butt plate and grip cap. And a styleized butterknife bolt handle, hate the looks of a ball and it's no use to me the way I work an action. That's where the project stopped. Welded on a chunk of steel and after a lot of grinding I'm not satisfied so when it starts again cut it off and try again. Brownell's had a simple but classy checkering pattern with just a hint of carving which I think I can track down that really appealed to me. And of course it would require a pretty rust blue.

Sorta classic the way I would've liked it to be. Would like to try that in black powder. There was a Pennsylvania school, the name escapes me, that focused on the lines of the wood and steel working together rather than sticking furniture all over the place. Would like to try that too. Which would be equally non-typical because I'd want a plains caliber.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14333103 12/03/19
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
gnoahhh Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
Sounds a treat. Full stocks are a challenge to get "right". Rule of thumb: whittle it down until it looks right, sleep on it, then whittle a bunch more. So many well meaning guys neglect the fact that you gotta have a slight reverse camber in the profile from the forward action screw to the end cap, but I bet you knew that. So many I see today look like 2x4's. Butterknife handles are tricky too, but I'm of no use there as I've never done one, but I do agree that when done right are efficient and classy in their own way.

I think you'll find that all the "schools" of Pennsylvania long rifle architecture focused on the lines of wood and steel working together first, and embellishment came second. Sometimes all that furniture* (inlays, patch boxes, and such) does draw the eye away from the basic form. My family heirloom Nicholas Beyer rifle is a plain "working rifle" devoid of any inlays and sports no carving that doesn't support the lines of the stock. (In fact, on top of its plainness, it's a "smooth rifle" also- no rifling. A fact of life among practical frontier rifles was that a tightly fitting patched round ball out of a smoothbore possesses near-rifle like accuracy out to 50 yards or so, and the smoothbore handles shot charges for small game way better than a rifled bore does. Very practical, and very common on what was the frontier in the late 18th-early 19th centuries.) The gun's plainness is an elegance all its own due to its well thought out lines.

* I can't help it- so many mis-informed people these days call the stock "furniture", when in truth furniture is the stuff attached to a stock.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 12/03/19.

"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14333739 12/03/19
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,680
T
TomM1 Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
T
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,680
Good conversation fellas, lots of good info. Might have to find me a classic Mauser project once completed with this winters Hawken project.


Stuck in airports, Terrorized
Sent to meetings, Hypnotized
Over-exposed, Commercialized
Handle me with Care...
-Traveling Wilbury's
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14334049 12/03/19
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
The wood will be a challenge. at least with the bolt handle you can start over/ One trick I plan on trying is building in a carbon fiber box beam to hold things straight. Just how I'm not sure, several optinns. Right now carbon bow laminations and spray urethane foam for the core are in the lead. Should be able to keep it all one piece with no warping worries.

Could be the execution of pictures of pieces I've seen but few inlays to disturb the beauty of the wood and almost no carving. The carving there is has that it grew there look. "The gun's plainness is an elegance all its own due to its well thought out lines." That's where my eye takes me along with good wood. I cannot do that and perhaps never will get the flow between wood and steel just right.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Hotrod_Lincoln] #14334169 12/03/19
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,598
z1r Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,598
Originally Posted by Hotrod_Lincoln
Originally Posted by Spotshooter

I haven’t had any seen anyone polish metal for blueing, this is the biggest thing that bothers me with trying it...
I may see if I can find a blueing class where they teach it..


I don't think I've ever heard of a community college or any similar facility that has a gunsmithing class. How about hitting a gun show or a pawn shop and picking up a beater gun from the bargain tack to practice on? The book by John Traister- - - -"Gunsmithing At Home- - - -Lock Stock And Barrel" has a good bit of information on metal polishing. One that's out of print but still available on the used book market is "Do It Yourself Gunsmithing" by Jim Carmichael. Both of those books were very useful back when I wanted a custom rifle, couldn't afford one, and had to teach myself to do it.

One final tip- - - -rookie metal polishers have a habit of rounding off corners and polishing away stamped lettering. Only do what's necessary to get a good smooth finish and remove all the old bluing- - - -a too-aggressive polishing job is very obvious to somebody who has been doing bluing for a while, and it can really devalue an heirloom gun.
Jerry





Lassen Community College in Susanville, CA teaches gunsmithjng. Montgomery Community College in N. Carolina, Trinidad State Jr College in Trinidad, CO. Murray State College, in OK. More than a few......

IC-B

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14334246 12/03/19
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,036
W
WTF Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
W
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,036
Yo Mike, does Co School of Trades still exist over on your side of the hill ?

Last edited by WTF; 12/03/19.
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: nighthawk] #14335134 12/03/19
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
gnoahhh Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,020
Originally Posted by nighthawk
The wood will be a challenge. at least with the bolt handle you can start over/ One trick I plan on trying is building in a carbon fiber box beam to hold things straight. Just how I'm not sure, several optinns. Right now carbon bow laminations and spray urethane foam for the core are in the lead. Should be able to keep it all one piece with no warping worries.

Could be the execution of pictures of pieces I've seen but few inlays to disturb the beauty of the wood and almost no carving. The carving there is has that it grew there look. "The gun's plainness is an elegance all its own due to its well thought out lines." That's where my eye takes me along with good wood. I cannot do that and perhaps never will get the flow between wood and steel just right.



Sounds interesting. I've toyed with the idea also of mortising in a carbon fiber tube or rod also, but never got around to it. Do keep us posted!

The thing is, Mother Nature is a b*tch, and if she wants to warp a fore end she'll do it. There's a lot of force exerted by wood when it warps and a simple structural reinforcement like this may not be sufficient to overcome it. I don't know. I think Art, Sitka Deer, has some thoughts on that.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14335449 12/03/19
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,526
ready_on_the_right Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,526


God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member


Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: WTF] #14335623 12/03/19
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,598
z1r Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,598
Yes, Co School of Trades is still around. Though, I believe it is a Technical School rather than a JC or Community College.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14335634 12/03/19
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,036
W
WTF Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
W
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,036
Yes, of course.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Hotrod_Lincoln] #14335644 12/03/19
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
C
Craigster Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
C
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
Originally Posted by Hotrod_Lincoln


I don't think I've ever heard of a community college or any similar facility that has a gunsmithing class.



You must lead a sheltered life.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: gnoahhh] #14335837 12/04/19
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I've toyed with the idea

Art likes to embed pieces of broken fishing rods, which is good. But with a box beam I think you can design beam with less flex for size using composite techniques. For bows you can buy unidirectional prepreg carbon layups which solve a lot of problems right there. Then band saw to a taper that will maximize structural soundness while fitting curvey wood. Build a U channel, fill with spray urethane and add a top for a composite box beam.

Of course you need a good piece of wood to start with, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature. Fixed a .410 stock with a true firewood stock. Wood in the butt stock had warped with such strength that a sizable piece of it had popped out of the stock. Relieved stress as best I could, forced it together, and epoxied it. No idea of how long it held. Belonged to an older woman, that was her gun when she hunted with her father. Hopefully it lasted 'til she died.

On the other hand I've mused about hollowing out a stock to laminate thickness and building an internal composite stock. Certainly would solve pretty wood/stability issuers. smile

The engineering part is fun, The artsy part, getting al the lines right for that organic look, scares me. I think that's what fascinates me. A chamber holding 50 kpsi plus right next to a trigger that would impress a watchmaker. All in a package that well represents an architectural period all to the admiration of art aficionados. Wish - dream - that I could do it all.

Oh, on decorations. Used to spend time in the Smithsonian before I got into black Powder. But what impressed me most was all the shiny crap people added to guns. Particularly trade guns. About 5 pounds of brass tacks in one trade rifle. So anything you make is authentic in one sense or another. laugh

The second was the collection of old uniforms, dating back to pre-revolutionaty days. We are giants by comparison.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14358556 12/10/19
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 547
D
damnesia Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 547
I've done the traditional slow rust bluing with good results but over the last few years I've used Mark Lee's Express Blue #1 ( no humidity box required ) with very good results. If you pay attention to what you're doing, you can't tell the difference between it and the traditional slow rust blue. It isn't a fast process but is less work than the traditional methods.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14359008 12/10/19
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 833
G
GrandView Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 833
Rust bluing is probably one of the easiest things for a home gun worker to accomplish with highly successful results. It really only requires patience and attention to detail. Investment is minimal, and required equipment can be purchased or made without prohibitive cost. Bluing small parts and gun furniture (grip caps, buttplates, triggerguards, etc...) can be successfully blued with equipment virtually any kitchen currently contains. The only purchase required in that case is the rust bluing solution, gloves (cotton or latex), and cotton applicators. Caution........some cotton balls are impregnated with stuff which will spread an oily substance when applying solution.

I used Mark Lee's #3. I used a stainless tank for boiling barreled actions with a three burner heat source. I also built a humidity box with a light bulb heating source over a shallow water container. A second light bulb on a rheostat higher in the box to adjust for humidity that may cause condensation. You will certainly have to adjust the humidity box for the area of the country and time of year you are bluing. My free time for bluing mostly happened during winter time in Wisconsin, so I was generating more humidity in the box than would ever be required in other areas of the country.

I degreased with Simple Green cleaner and boiling water. I hand polished to 320 grit.........with backing. After degreasing, the metal parts are never handled without gloves. I also changed gloves frequently.

The very first application of rusting solution can be applied aggressively. It can be rubbed in liberally, but not left excessively wet or dripping. Then the metal is set in the damp box for rusting. You must get a feel for how long rusting is required. Check frequently to see when orange rust is developing. Allowing to rust too long will develop pitting. Better too short than too long. It just may require more rusting sessions. After the rusting session, the metal is suspended in the boiling tank of distilled water. This boiling will convert the orange rust to a black "fur". At the conclusion of boiling, remove the metal part and immediately blow it dry with a hair dryer. Any dripping water has the capability of creating a stain if not blown dry quickly. I carded off the black fur with a fine wire stainless brush (degreased) in my variable steel drill. If you have a bench buffer, so much the better. This first session will invariably look like crap. Don't be discouraged.............it's the first of 7-8 iterations.

The 2nd, and further applications of bluing solution, must be applied with a gentle hand. Float the applicator in overlapping strokes, just leaving a damp covering on the metal. Think in your mind that every successive application will be applied with less pressure, and less solution. Applied bluing solution can remove bluing that is on the metal. Some metals will require more sessions than others, but in 30 years as a hobby, I've not found one that wouldn't ultimately take a good rust blue.

To get a feel for what this procedure entails, blue some small parts. You can boil them in a pan on the kitchen stove, and a temporary damp box can be accomplished by using a plastic container, with vented or cover ajar. Place a small shallow dish of hot water in the corner to provide humidity. You can see the rust developing, and boiling off and carding is pretty simple. It will work. Degrease. Apply solution as described above. Handle only with gloves. Provide some humidity while rusting.......not so much that condensation develops.

Some people have successfully carded with degreased steel wool. I never got comfortable with that method, but know it will work, and a brush wheel is one less thing to purchase.

Re: Ever tried to do a cold rust blue at home ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14378769 12/16/19
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,703
O
okie Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
O
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,703
Oxpho blue. NRA Summer courses at several community colleges across the country. A copy of "Gunsmith Kinks" (or more than one) will provide at least several ways to blue or brown stuff economically or expensively your choice. Lots of Info out there...


One man with courage makes a majority....

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
481 registered members (12344mag, 22250rem, 1234, 160user, 1bigdude, 55 invisible), 1,106 guests, and 644 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.19 Page Time: 0.049s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9239 MB (Peak: 1.1108 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-07-03 13:02:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS