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Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13458404 01/16/19
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Spotshooter Offline
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MD,

I was just yanking your chain a bit... I know enough that I love my 260 - but I do know it’s limitations on longer bullets and accuracy with those that the Creed fixes...

It’s hard to find anything to disagree with you on given you are dead nutz on ... but I gave it a bit of a whirl just for the fun of it (haven’t ever really disagreed with you before outside personal pref.)

Anyway - If I hadn’t had my customer 260 reamer on order I may have changed to 6.5 creed... but Lapua makes 260 brass so I’m all good.. and my spec’s are tighter than the SAAMI so all else equal my customer job will hold it’s own water even though the brass may not last as long. I customer throat my rifles as well... so I’m at a good spot with OAL in this case luckily.

Of course 90% of that would automatically go away if I used the Creed as is... maybe more, ...

At some point I do want to compare the Creed to the 260 to see which one is more finicky about loads... the 6XC was supposed to be easier to load than the 6 creed... but I went 6 Creed for my PRS rifle anway.

- i.e. I was just being a smart arse. smile


Spot shooter
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Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13458586 01/16/19
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I do like the 6½ in the AR-10. It seems to me to be better suited to that action, and shoots a little more accurately than either of the .308's I own.


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13458636 01/16/19
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Interesting about the dies potentially not working with the SR primer brass. I'm lazy and switching to Lapua brass with the SR seems like way too much work, especially when the Hornady brass seems to be working so well.

As for the magneto speed, it doesn't move the POI much with my heavy barreled .308, but it moves it a whole bunch with my 84M. A good 4-5" at 100 yds.

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: Spotshooter] #13459494 01/16/19
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Mule Deer Online Content
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Spotshooter,

I was yanking your chain back... :-)

As a hard-core rifle loony, it also baffles when shooters somehow feel they have to bash other cartridges in favor of their "own" rounds--especially when they've never even tried the other cartridges. This occurs regularly on the Campfire.

Personally I don't see any reason NOT to own rifles for various "competing" cartridges. In addition to one 6.5 Creedmoor (the 4th I've owned), I also own hunting rifles in such similar cartridges as the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, .260 Remington, 6.5x55 (two, including a "traditional" custom rifle on an commercial 98 action, with a stock made of European walnut), and 6.5x57R (actually a drilling, not just a rifle). With the exception of my other 6.5x55, a lightly sporterized Norwegian Krag-Jorgenson, I've hunted with all of them over the past few years. Also own two .257 Roberts rifles, one another tradition custom in process, a 7mm-08 and a 7x57. Have plenty of field experience all three cartridges, and in fact the 7x57 taken more big game over the past 15 years than all but one of my other rifles.

So far, I've found getting the 6.5 Creedmoor to shoot accurately is easier than with the .260 (am on my third .260; the first was a "modern" synthetic/stainless rifle built around 2000), and much easier than the 6.5x55, due to widely varying chambers in the old Swedish-Norwegian round.

My 6XC shoots extremely well, but it's another modern custom rifle, and I've only tried one 6mm Creedmoor so far, a factory rifle retailing for around $400. It shoots very well, but not like the 6XC, though would assume that's due more to the rifle, not the cartridge.

Last edited by Mule Deer; 01/16/19.

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Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: Higbean] #13463530 01/17/19
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From what I'm reading here, at least 3 of us, and maybe more, that have done something resembling proper testing have observed or shown that Creedmoor cases need a large rifle primer for reliability and consistency in hunting or other cold-weather activities, and further that the only thing SR primers do is let you significantly overload the cartridge for longer before you destroy your brass. I don't understand why this would surprise people, but I'm glad the info is there for folks who want to know.

Last edited by MZ5; 01/17/19.
Alpha

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: MZ5] #13463953 01/17/19
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bsa1917hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by MZ5
From what I'm reading here, at least 3 of us, and maybe more, that have done something resembling proper testing have observed or shown that Creedmoor cases need a large rifle primer for reliability and consistency in hunting or other cold-weather activities, and further that the only thing SR primers do is let you significantly overload the cartridge for longer before you destroy your brass. I don't understand why this would surprise people, but I'm glad the info is there for folks who want to know.


What, I never shoot in cold weather....
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


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Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: Jordan Smith] #13464332 01/18/19
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Brad Offline
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Mule Deer

The thing I don't get is the anger toward the 6.5 Creedmoor. From what I've seen, even on the always-aggressive Internet, nobody is DEMANDING that anybody give up their .260's, 6.5x55's or anything else and buy a Creedmoor.


I don't get it either, but it is amusing when folks who vow to never get one feel the need to post their opinions on a Creedmoor thread.



I don’t think anyone feels like they are being coerced into buying one, but my guess is that a shiny, new, better-designed cartridge suddenly makes whatever they’ve been using seem “worse” or inferior.


+1

The male ego can be a fragile thing, as is easily observable by 6.5 Creedmoor bashing on 6.5 Creedmoor threads by theoretically adult men who are Creedmoorless.

That was exhausting to write... :grin




Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose.
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13464544 01/18/19
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My 6.5x47 was the most accurate rifle I ever owned... as long as the temps were above 20* or so.... then it was all over the place. Below 0* and the hang-fires made shooting it awful sporty. I tried all kinds of SR primers and couldn’t remedy the issue.

I see no reason at all to go to a SR primer in the Creed.


You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: Dogshooter] #13464704 01/18/19
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Originally Posted by Dogshooter
My 6.5x47 was the most accurate rifle I ever owned... as long as the temps were above 20* or so.... then it was all over the place. Below 0* and the hang-fires made shooting it awful sporty. I tried all kinds of SR primers and couldn’t remedy the issue.

I see no reason at all to go to a SR primer in the Creed.



Agree with Josh...

Been there done that. After a two mile hike to get to a primo coyote call stand, on a -30F morning, and having two coyotes show up and stop less than 100 meters, only to hear "click" four times in a row, was enough to convince me it would never happen again...and it hasn't.


Luck....is the residue of design...
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Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13464753 01/18/19
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[Linked Image]

The rifle went "bang" on this -30F morning.

Rifle is a .260


Luck....is the residue of design...
[Linked Image]
Bravo

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13464890 01/18/19
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LR for me,in everything greater than BR case capacity....................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: scenarshooter] #13465208 01/18/19
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Originally Posted by scenarshooter
Originally Posted by Dogshooter
My 6.5x47 was the most accurate rifle I ever owned... as long as the temps were above 20* or so.... then it was all over the place. Below 0* and the hang-fires made shooting it awful sporty. I tried all kinds of SR primers and couldn’t remedy the issue.

I see no reason at all to go to a SR primer in the Creed.



Agree with Josh...

Been there done that. After a two mile hike to get to a primo coyote call stand, on a -30F morning, and having two coyotes show up and stop less than 100 meters, only to hear "click" four times in a row, was enough to convince me it would never happen again...and it hasn't.


That right there ^^^^,is the reason I don't and will never use a small flash hole'd sr primer in my creed.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


BSA
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13465243 01/18/19
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RTSJ Offline
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What about Starline SRP brass with the normal .080 flash hole? Similar cold weather ignition problems or???


Roy

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13465589 01/18/19
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Why roll the dice?

What minor improvement in accuracy is worth the risk of significant inconsistency?


You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #13465677 01/18/19
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Big Stick Offline
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Likely save a guy bushing a 'pin hole too.

Hint...................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: scenarshooter] #13465811 01/18/19
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Great photo Scenar!

Question for you, do the cold weather misfires also happen with .223 size cartridges? I went out during a recent cold snap (-13 that morning) and took a .223. I didn't get a shot but was thinking as sat there freezing my butt off I should sell my 22-250 as I never use it anymore.

I have been using Winchester brand small rifle primers I bought a few thousand of a couple years ago.

I guess I should test it myself the next time we have a cold snap.

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: Phasmid] #13465832 01/18/19
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Originally Posted by Phasmid
Great photo Scenar!

Question for you, do the cold weather misfires also happen with .223 size cartridges? I went out during a recent cold snap (-13 that morning) and took a .223. I didn't get a shot but was thinking as sat there freezing my butt off I should sell my 22-250 as I never use it anymore.

I have been using Winchester brand small rifle primers I bought a few thousand of a couple years ago.

I guess I should test it myself the next time we have a cold snap.


What some here arent getting, is its not just about using sr primers. Its the tiny flash hole some of these manufactures are using to cater to the benchrest crowd. A small rifle primer will work just fine in any small case, like a 223 rem, in damn near any temperature.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


BSA
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: bsa1917hunter] #13465897 01/18/19
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter


What some here arent getting, is its not just about using sr primers. Its the tiny flash hole some of these manufactures are using to cater to the benchrest crowd. A small rifle primer will work just fine in any small case, like a 223 rem, in damn near any temperature.


I agree you're probably right, but I'm still curious if you've tried just running that small flash hole brass through a die with a standard size decapping pin. I know with some dies it'll pull the pin out, but I was able to tighten mine enough to just expand the flash hole to normal (and very consistent) size. That was Grendel brass from Lapua though, so a little different.

Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #14334197 12/03/19
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Right I'm setting up to load for the 6.5 Creedmoor and one of the hoops I have to jump through is getting a bit of additional gear to accommodate the small primer, small flash hole Lapua brass. I didn't buy the brass empty, it is from Berger branded ammunition loaded with their 140 grain target hybrid bullets. Last Saturday I shot a box and a half through a brand new Rem 700 5R Milspec and it performed superbly. Whether I'm handloading this Lapua brass or any other I'll have my hands full equalling, never mind beating, this factory ammo.


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
Re: Small vs Large primers for Creedmoor [Re: smokepole] #14335099 12/03/19
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Funny deal. I load my Creedmoor stuff with my 6.5x47 gold medal bushing dies. Has been working great. And use the seater from that set as well. And comes with small primer pin obviously.

The Berger 135 Classic factory ammo is very accurate in mine and it does make one wonder why we reload it.

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