the UPS driver had many opportunties to make a CCW draw and kill them both. When you default on your responsibilities to yourself and society, it can cost you dearly.
I understand your point but I think also not everyone is cut out to carry for many reason. Many of us do but many folks can't and don't want to deal with that responsibility
We are all wired a bit different
Very sad for the victims and familys I hope there is an honest and sincere study of all that went wrong here Hank
Last edited by boatboy; 12/06/19.
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Bad luck for the innocent people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but 2 dead felons is a win for society.
There is no win here. That’s fugking awful.
2 dead felons is a bad thing?
It is when TWO innocents are KILLED by undisciplined and characteristically awful LEO marksmanship..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I can hear and see the shotgun as well as the hand guns being fired but it sounds as if a semiautomatic rifle is also heard, if so, it just don't seem like the best choice considering available backstops in this setting.
... But at the he time you had at least two perps opening up in a crowded public setting.
what was ratio of perp. rounds to LE rounds in that public setting, while LE were using involuntary road going civilians as human shields when drawing fire from desperado perps.
Terrorists and felons using human shields are considered by most here as out and out low life cowards.
but we have types on the CF [that have previously expressed] that collateral damage by LE gunfire is quite acceptable when a perp starts shooting at a cop.
course if you as a good citizen were to defend yourself by unleashing a couple Glock mags and happen to unitendededly kill a cop or two in crossfire, the LE fraternity would not be impressed.
You really haven't thought this through have you? The truck came to a stop in heavy traffic. The robbers started shooting indiscriminately. Drivers were stuck with nowhere to go. At this point what would you like for the cops to do? Go home? Not make use of available cover? Do their best to stay in open lanes for the shooters?
The cops were NOT using human shields. They were using the vehicles as cover.
If you aren't really goddam dumb, you sure did a good job of feigning it.
the UPS driver had many opportunties to make a CCW draw and kill them both. When you default on your responsibilities to yourself and society, it can cost you dearly.
Spoke with a friend of mine (LEO), who was part of this mess. There were many officers from multiple jurisdictions, across two large counties (Miami-Dade where the armed robbery and shootout began, and Broward where the chase ended in gunfire). The chase went on for an extended time, with the perps shooting at both officers and civvies along the way. His estimation is that there were over 75 cars from many jurisdictions involved, all trying to communicate with each other and with dispatchers. Some officers were up to date with info, others were not.
When the UPS truck got stopped in traffic, both perps began firing indiscriminately, with one apparently using the hostage UPS driver as cover. From my friend’s view, it appeared that one of the perps shot the hostage UPS driver after he attempted to use him as a shield to exit the passenger side of the truck, while firing at police. It was at that point that everyone opened up on the perps as the hostage had been hit and was trying to crawl out of the truck. The perp, who was also hit, collapsed on top of the hostage and both appeared to be hit a number of times after that, which can be seen in the videos as well.
My friend did not fire his weapon, and said it was absolute chaos. He also said that he was certain if these guys were not stopped, they would have certainly shot more people, or taken another hostage if they attempted to carjack another vehicle (they had previously carjacked a uhaul truck, and then the UPS truck).
I feel terrible for the UPS driver and motorist who lost their lives(along with their families), and for the officers who fired and who are aware that they may have hit those two civvies. Not sad that the dirtbag jewelry store robbers are dead as we have too many of those types down here already. Either way, it’s going to be a long road for everyone here.
Holy schit... Civilians in cars everywhere. Hostage situation. What happened to any concept of some sort of precision fire and round accountability. Kinda shoulda maybe stacked up some scoped long guns to the front of that police convoy if possible.....
"Hey boys this is your chance to get some rounds off at something besides paper for the 1st or only time in your career type of thing" "Get some"!!!
The local govts. will just raise taxes on the down low to cover the eventual lawsuits from this fiasco.
Did you read where an officer on scene said the robbers began firing indiscriminately? If the officers had retreated and innocents were killed, you'd be pounding your chest calling the cops pussies.
They weren't firing indiscriminately, they were firing at the army of cops running at them with guns drawn. That's why this could have been avoided. Pick a better spot for your next ambush...
It's still not known who fired first, the cops or the robbers....
Because their training sucks. Containment,MINIMIZE civilian casualties and especially the hostage. Most if not all carry rifles and could have been FAR more selective.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
They weren't firing indiscriminately, they were firing at the army of cops running at them with guns drawn. That's why this could have been avoided. Pick a better spot for your next ambush...
It's still not known who fired first, the cops or the robbers....
According to our member who had a friend on scene, as soon as the UPS truck came to a stop, the robbers started shooting indiscriminately. If that is indeed the case, should the cops have just stayed in their vehicles?
