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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342378 12/06/19
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KFWA Offline
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Quote
At that point, what would you have the cops do?


maybe it shouldn't have got to that point




There's certainly a discussion to be had there. And I know without a doubt in the extensive reviews this undergoes that will be discussed.

You have the value of hindsight. With that, what would you do if you were calling the shots? Start from the point that you knew armed robbers had taken a UPS driver hostage and were fleeing in his truck. As you discuss what you would do, discuss the potential negative consequences of your actions and inactions.



I wouldn't be calling the shots. For $60K a year, 2 divorces, learning to be a functional alcoholic and a bad pension isn't worth having a job where there is no margin of error in dealing with the worst of society

but they signed up for that, and their job is to protect and serve the public. One could argue the only thing they protected yesterday was jewelry or whatever those guys stole.

Last edited by KFWA; 12/06/19.

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342384 12/06/19
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Traffic sucks!


Critical thinking not needed.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14342385 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by JeffA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by JeffA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


According to our member who had a friend on scene, as soon as the UPS truck came to a stop, the robbers started shooting indiscriminately. If that is indeed the case, should the cops have just stayed in their vehicles?


If that was what the robbers were doing there would have been dead bodies strewn all along the 25 miles they covered while being chased..

Sounds really unlikely....

The cops pinned them in a corner and they attempted to shoot their way out.

There is a time to back off when obvious consequences just aren't worth it.


Let's say they back off the UPS truck once it starts heading into heavy traffic. The perps decide they need better wheels than the UPS truck. They kill the driver then kill a family in an SUV and take it over. Now we still have 2 armed thugs, willing to kill on the run.

Nobody would criticize the cops at this point right? Nobody would be calling them donut eating pussies afraid to do their jobs right? Nobody would pin the deaths of the innocents on the cops right?



You can't divert this with a string of "what if's"




Really? You don't think cops should consider the consequences of any actions or inactions prior to making decisons? That strikes me as odd.

Back yourself out to the beginning and tell me how you would manage this in a way that guaranteed no innocent lives were lost.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342388 12/06/19
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Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342392 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......


that's actually should hit pretty hard. Just a UPS driver and a nobody in a car

a bunch of dead school kids? I doubt I see too many people jumping up to hail the police for their actions.


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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: KFWA] #14342393 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Quote
At that point, what would you have the cops do?


maybe it shouldn't have got to that point




There's certainly a discussion to be had there. And I know without a doubt in the extensive reviews this undergoes that will be discussed.

You have the value of hindsight. With that, what would you do if you were calling the shots? Start from the point that you knew armed robbers had taken a UPS driver hostage and were fleeing in his truck. As you discuss what you would do, discuss the potential negative consequences of your actions and inactions.



I wouldn't be calling the shots. For $60K a year, 2 divorces, learning to be a functional alcoholic and a bad pension isn't worth having a job where there is no margin of error in dealing with the worst of society

but they signed up for that, and their job is to protect and serve the public. One could argue the only thing they protected yesterday was jewelry or whatever those guys stole.



Just what I thought. You don't have the stones for the work, don't know what you would do if you were in a similar set of circumstances and offer nothing but criticism. Are you related to Colin Kaepernick, because you sound just like him.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342399 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......



It's entirely possible that the cops would have used a different set of tactics in that situation. Crazy, I know.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342402 12/06/19
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KFWA Offline
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Quote
At that point, what would you have the cops do?


maybe it shouldn't have got to that point




There's certainly a discussion to be had there. And I know without a doubt in the extensive reviews this undergoes that will be discussed.

You have the value of hindsight. With that, what would you do if you were calling the shots? Start from the point that you knew armed robbers had taken a UPS driver hostage and were fleeing in his truck. As you discuss what you would do, discuss the potential negative consequences of your actions and inactions.



I wouldn't be calling the shots. For $60K a year, 2 divorces, learning to be a functional alcoholic and a bad pension isn't worth having a job where there is no margin of error in dealing with the worst of society

but they signed up for that, and their job is to protect and serve the public. One could argue the only thing they protected yesterday was jewelry or whatever those guys stole.



Just what I thought. You don't have the stones for the work, don't know what you would do if you were in a similar set of circumstances and offer nothing but criticism. Are you related to Colin Kaepernick, because you sound just like him.



You're right I don't have the stones for the work, but that doesn't mean jack schit. You don't get a free pass to harm the public just because you got the flat top haircut. You're firing blanks here with your argument.

Last edited by KFWA; 12/06/19.

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342410 12/06/19
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KFWA Offline
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......



It's entirely possible that the cops would have used a different set of tactics in that situation. Crazy, I know.


so now you're saying the police would have backed off and not chased the criminals into rush hour traffic if it was a hostage situation with school kids? There was an alternative option in overtaking the criminals?

Last edited by KFWA; 12/06/19.

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342411 12/06/19
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Drone strike.......

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342412 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......


In that area it would have been 95% Hispanic so there would have been a 25hrCF cheer leading squad for the bad guys.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14342417 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffA
I count over 70 law enforcement officers in this video from the 4:20 to 4:50 time mark.

That's what went wrong.. too many Indians and not enough chiefs.





Now we have reached a point of agreement. That is way too many. And I have seen that in the past in situations like this. In an incredibly difficult, fluid, multi-jurisdictional situation that is way beyond any on scene commanders span of control, and given the comparatively short duration, not enough time to develop an adequate incident command.

I hope as a result of this that law enforcement all across the country will develop better tactics.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: KFWA] #14342424 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Quote
At that point, what would you have the cops do?


maybe it shouldn't have got to that point




There's certainly a discussion to be had there. And I know without a doubt in the extensive reviews this undergoes that will be discussed.

You have the value of hindsight. With that, what would you do if you were calling the shots? Start from the point that you knew armed robbers had taken a UPS driver hostage and were fleeing in his truck. As you discuss what you would do, discuss the potential negative consequences of your actions and inactions.



I wouldn't be calling the shots. For $60K a year, 2 divorces, learning to be a functional alcoholic and a bad pension isn't worth having a job where there is no margin of error in dealing with the worst of society

but they signed up for that, and their job is to protect and serve the public. One could argue the only thing they protected yesterday was jewelry or whatever those guys stole.



Just what I thought. You don't have the stones for the work, don't know what you would do if you were in a similar set of circumstances and offer nothing but criticism. Are you related to Colin Kaepernick, because you sound just like him.



You're right I don't have the stones for the work, but that doesn't mean jack schit. You don't get a free pass to harm the public just because you got the flat top haircut. You're firing blanks here with your argument.


My argument is that the cops could not have chosen any path that wouldn't have found people who don't have the stones to do the work criticizing them and wouldn't have presented other substantial risk to human life.

Tell me how I am wrong.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342433 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Drone strike.......



I can see that in the future. Of course nobody would ever be critical of the militarization of police forces, would they?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342439 12/06/19
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KFWA Offline
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


My argument is that the cops could not have chosen any path that wouldn't have found people who don't have the stones to do the work criticizing them and wouldn't have presented other substantial risk to human life.

Tell me how I am wrong.



well first of all, I'm certain there will be people who do "have the stones" to do the work criticizing them which marginalizes your argument

but at the moment, I'm struggling to find your point other than don't criticize the police when they pull out their guns and shoot people.


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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: KFWA] #14342461 12/06/19
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PaulBarnard Offline
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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


My argument is that the cops could not have chosen any path that wouldn't have found people who don't have the stones to do the work criticizing them and wouldn't have presented other substantial risk to human life.

Tell me how I am wrong.



but at the moment, I'm struggling to find your point .



Then you need to learn to read more critically, because I just summarized it succinctly in my previous post. You truly do sound like the BLM types. They have no solutions only criticism of cops when cops hurt blacks.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342462 12/06/19
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This was a case of the cops doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. It was absolutely stupid on their part to engage those two perps in a shootout in that situation. It is a wonder there were not more innocent people killed. I hope the family of the UPS driver and the other bystander sue the cops for every penny they are worth.......and then some.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JamesJr] #14342469 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by JamesJr
This was a case of the cops doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. It was absolutely stupid on their part to engage those two perps in a shootout in that situation. It is a wonder there were not more innocent people killed. I hope the family of the UPS driver and the other bystander sue the cops for every penny they are worth.......and then some.


I'll ask you too, and I have a hunch I know what the response will be. Imagine yourself being the HMFIC. When the armed robbers took the driver hostage and took off in his truck, what would you have done?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342475 12/06/19
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Haha! Apparently the correct answer is to kill everyone at the scene!

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342478 12/06/19
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JamesJr Offline
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by JamesJr
This was a case of the cops doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. It was absolutely stupid on their part to engage those two perps in a shootout in that situation. It is a wonder there were not more innocent people killed. I hope the family of the UPS driver and the other bystander sue the cops for every penny they are worth.......and then some.


I'll ask you too, and I have a hunch I know what the response will be. Imagine yourself being the HMFIC. When the armed robbers took the driver hostage and took off in his truck, what would you have done?



anything but engage them in the place they did. They did not have to do that around all those people.

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