24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342480 12/06/19
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,948
KFWA Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,948
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


My argument is that the cops could not have chosen any path that wouldn't have found people who don't have the stones to do the work criticizing them and wouldn't have presented other substantial risk to human life.

Tell me how I am wrong.



but at the moment, I'm struggling to find your point .



Then you need to learn to read more critically, because I just summarized it succinctly in my previous post. You truly do sound like the BLM types. They have no solutions only criticism of cops when cops hurt blacks.


you should quit while you're behind, but you won't

in the coming days there are going to be plenty of people demanding to investigate why this happened "who don't have the stones". You can call them BLM supporters or Kaepernick or whatever you think is particularly witty , but it won't change that innocent people died in a situation where 200 shots were fired in rush hour traffic. Someone is going to answer for that.

Last edited by KFWA; 12/06/19.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
BP-B2

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342483 12/06/19
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,385
JamesJr Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,385
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Haha! Apparently the correct answer is to kill everyone at the scene!


Yeah.......cops are always right.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342488 12/06/19
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
JeffA Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


Back yourself out to the beginning and tell me how you would manage this in a way that guaranteed no innocent lives were lost.


After the fact arm chair quarterbacking is total BS but since you ask.

Not being a trained LEO I don't understand the benefit of 75 squad cars verses half a dozen when apprehending 2 individuals.

If I didn't let that happen (75 different cars/cops) I could be more capable of developing and controlling strategies when dealing with 6 or so.

That's where I'd start.

It's said the pursuing officers were drawing fire.

Back off until they aren't, find the robbers comfort zone while protect bystanders, win/win.

The truck is pretty big to worry of losing it in traffic it's GPS tacked by UPS anyway, it can't get away.

That's a start...................

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JamesJr] #14342501 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
PaulBarnard Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by JamesJr
This was a case of the cops doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. It was absolutely stupid on their part to engage those two perps in a shootout in that situation. It is a wonder there were not more innocent people killed. I hope the family of the UPS driver and the other bystander sue the cops for every penny they are worth.......and then some.


I'll ask you too, and I have a hunch I know what the response will be. Imagine yourself being the HMFIC. When the armed robbers took the driver hostage and took off in his truck, what would you have done?



anything but engage them in the place they did. They did not have to do that around all those people.



Come on, you are going to criticize them and all you can offer as an alternative plan of action is "anything but engage them where they did?"

An officer on scene said that when the truck came to a stop the robbers started shooting indiscriminately. You are saying when they did that, the cops should have remained in their cars?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14342510 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
PaulBarnard Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
Originally Posted by JeffA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


Back yourself out to the beginning and tell me how you would manage this in a way that guaranteed no innocent lives were lost.


After the fact arm chair quarterbacking is total BS but since you ask.




No it isn't. As it should be, this incident will be the focus of intense review, and will serve as the basis for policy and training for years to come.

IC-A

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14342517 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
PaulBarnard Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
Originally Posted by JeffA
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


Back yourself out to the beginning and tell me how you would manage this in a way that guaranteed no innocent lives were lost.


After the fact arm chair quarterbacking is total BS but since you ask.

Not being a trained LEO I don't understand the benefit of 75 squad cars verses half a dozen when apprehending 2 individuals.

If I didn't let that happen (75 different cars/cops) I could be more capable of developing and controlling strategies when dealing with 6 or so.

That's where I'd start.

It's said the pursuing officers were drawing fire.

Back off until they aren't, find the robbers comfort zone while protect bystanders, win/win.

The truck is pretty big to worry of losing it in traffic it's GPS tacked by UPS anyway, it can't get away.

That's a start...................




Let me see if I understand you correctly. You are going to have 6 or so officers in pursuit. When the truck comes to a stop and the robbers start shooting indiscriminately, you are going to have the cops back off?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342541 12/06/19
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 27,517
Jim_Conrad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 27,517
Indiscriminately..............hmmm........



Who gets to make that judgement call? Were they shooting at birds? Road signs?


The pavement? Why didn't they just unload their weapons safely?


Would it have been different if the shooting was well aimed and well executed?


Naturally, it would seem to be easier to justify killing everyone at the scene........if the firing was "indiscriminate".


The collateral damage would have been much, much greater had we not killed all of them.........right? Cause you know....indiscriminate fire?


Had they been taking careful,aimed shots at the cops.....we could have just killed the bad guys......yes?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342544 12/06/19
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
JeffA Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard


Let me see if I understand you correctly. You are going to have 6 or so officers in pursuit. When the truck comes to a stop and the robbers start shooting indiscriminately, you are going to have the cops back off?


No, you don't....

Originally Posted by JeffA
It's said the pursuing officers were drawing fire.


As in along the 25 mile route they traveled during the pursuit...

Had to take them 25 minutes or so to cover that much ground, I would be learning the bad guys characteristics along the way, before they found themselves trapped.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342552 12/06/19
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,758
AcesNeights Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,758
No matter what transpired or what situation people feel the cops were in there’s ZERO justification for killing innocent lives when up to that point nobody else had been killed. There’s no justification for good guys killing innocent civilians, NONE!

I assume that the bad guys weren’t carrying cases of ammunition and they had a relatively finite number of reloads available to them. Pushing them into a corner and firing indiscriminately was a bad and fatal mistake for the innocent truck driver and another civilian.

5 different agencies, FIVE! All fired their weapons in their attempt to make the wall of fame back at the station. I haven’t yet heard the total number of cops that got to pull the trigger and use their pew-pew but we know that AT LEAST 5 did in fact use their weapon.

I’m with Jorge, I was surprised that none of the cops I saw used a rifle when rifles are ubiquitous with patrol cars and the M4 makes them look so much more intimidating. A rifle was the right tool in that scenario despite its tendency to over penetrate. 😉


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342561 12/06/19
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 27,517
Jim_Conrad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 27,517
Had to kill those good guys to protect them from the bad guys..........

IC-B

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: AcesNeights] #14342562 12/06/19
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
JeffA Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
It's been said 19 officers fired a possibility of 200 or so rounds.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342582 12/06/19
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
JeffA Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,761
Oh crap, here we go again this morning.. Hope this don't turn into another who shot who..

Naval Air Station Pensacola shooting leaves two dead, several injured; gunman dead

“There's probably been 100 or so various law enforcement vehicles zooming down the wrong side on Navy Boulevard,” he said, adding that he received a call from co-workers on base who reported being on lockdown."

"3 dead, including suspect, in shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola; at least 11 hospitalized"

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342585 12/06/19
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,948
KFWA Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,948
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Indiscriminately..............hmmm........



Who gets to make that judgement call? Were they shooting at birds? Road signs?


The pavement? Why didn't they just unload their weapons safely?


Would it have been different if the shooting was well aimed and well executed?


Naturally, it would seem to be easier to justify killing everyone at the scene........if the firing was "indiscriminate".


The collateral damage would have been much, much greater had we not killed all of them.........right? Cause you know....indiscriminate fire?


Had they been taking careful,aimed shots at the cops.....we could have just killed the bad guys......yes?




if you're one of 75 police cars being shot at, I can see how your interpretation is indiscriminate, that's got to be a pretty wide field of fire from the criminals vantage point.

now if they hopped out of the truck and started shooting in the direction the UPS truck was faciing, opposite of the police - now that's indiscriminate


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Jim_Conrad] #14342590 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 41,659
12344mag Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 41,659
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Why were they firing indiscriminately?




Perhaps because the cops used the civilians as a road block and involved them in the chaos, then used them as a shield to fire from.

This whole fiasco is going to cost a few counties a bunch of money and rightfully so.


Paul

"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

"Because I'm President and they're not".... DJT

Joe and the Ho 2020!

molɔ̀ːn labé skýla

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: AcesNeights] #14342622 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
PaulBarnard Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,127
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
No matter what transpired or what situation people feel the cops were in there’s ZERO justification for killing innocent lives when up to that point nobody else had been killed. There’s no justification for good guys killing innocent civilians, NONE!



The information that LE had was that shots were fired prior to their response to the robbery.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...-to-chase-with-stolen-ups-truck-shootout

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342635 12/06/19
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 41,659
12344mag Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 41,659
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Come on, you are going to criticize them and all you can offer as an alternative plan of action is "anything but engage them where they did?"

An officer on scene said that when the truck came to a stop the robbers started shooting indiscriminately. You are saying when they did that, the cops should have remained in their cars?



Cops should have never blocked that intersection and used the civilians to make a barricade and once involved in the fight they should have never used a civilian as cover.

I've seen cops block cross traffic for perps to continue through an intersection unheeded by cross traffic and then stop them where things are less likely to involve citizens that's what should have happened here.

There was a bank robbery here local and they let the perps go on down the highway unheeded until they could catch them is a much less populated area, they even blocked on ramps to keep traffic off of the highway. They did a great job an only the perps died when they crashed their vehicle and decided to go out in a blaze of glory.

There's a whole lot of fuqking up in this chase and it's going to get expensive for sure.


Paul

"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

"Because I'm President and they're not".... DJT

Joe and the Ho 2020!

molɔ̀ːn labé skýla

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342653 12/06/19
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 31,159
slumlord Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 31,159
Those ups trucks are geo tracked by the company, why not just ease back let them drive to "where ever" and let em ditch or run out of fuel , helicopter could still follow

Be less tense and less need for everyone to get all Tackleberry and shoot innocents.

Just a scenario.

Oh well what's done is done.


Interesting to see some of the cops from 1/10 mile back running up after the truck had been subdued. What, did they want to dump a magazine too??

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342663 12/06/19
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 19,926
R
renegade50 Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 19,926
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by renegade50
Holy schit...
Civilians in cars everywhere.
Hostage situation.
What happened to any concept of some sort of precision fire and round accountability.
Kinda shoulda maybe stacked up some scoped long guns to the front of that police convoy if possible.....

"Hey boys this is your chance to get some rounds off at something besides paper for the 1st or only time in your career type of thing"
"Get some"!!!

The local govts. will just raise taxes on the down low to cover the eventual lawsuits from this fiasco.



Did you read where an officer on scene said the robbers began firing indiscriminately? If the officers had retreated and innocents were killed, you'd be pounding your chest calling the cops pussies.

Thats your point of veiw about my post.
Thanks for your interpretation of it for all to see.
Feel better?
Good....


Liberal Socialist Democrats and their voters are a bane to this Nation.
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342694 12/06/19
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,247
E
Ejp1234 Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
E
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,247
Anyone notice the helicopter.... why didnt they just eye in the sky it... a few police cars and keep a moving perimeter.

Paul Barnard is right about one thing.. this will be used for training going forward, that what not to do type of training.

I was always taught to outwit your advisory... they chose the “lets put every meat head with a pistol on their ass” technique... yeah, the bad guys died but there was so much more collateral damage than needed.

Pure meat heads.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342717 12/06/19
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,183
2legit2quit Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,183
Man this is some sad chit. As others have noted it’s gonna be anything but a Merry Christmas for some families.

If gun companies get sued for deaths, shouldn’t parole boards and judges be held to the same standard?

Death by bullet was too merciful for these scumbags. Should be death by tractor pull


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
679 registered members (1234, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 10ring1, 89 invisible), 1,682 guests, and 951 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.22 Page Time: 0.046s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9201 MB (Peak: 1.1080 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-09-23 22:41:18 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS