Home Forums Gear Knives and Blades RAT2 D2 heat treat?

I have too many miles on me to get toooo worked up over difference of opinions or to take banter toooo personal.

I believe I said that there are some makers out there pushing the envelope, but there just is not a LOT of room to push.
So the end result is not exactly a world of difference in users in the field.

And I know that some of the very top end makers have had a part in the steel mfrs products and procedures.



From above, it sounds to me like you are pushing the steel chemistry and sharpening process more than the heat treatment
----which was the O.P.s point if interest.

Sharpening-------"As for not being able to tell the difference, maybe you can not. But there are guys including myself that can. Sharpen a bunch of knives by hand on stones and a strop with diamond emulsion spray @ 1 or .5 Micron and you will learn to be able to tell the difference very fast."

Chemistry-----"Have you played with Vanex, Nitro-V, Rex 121, M390, K390, CruWear, Vanadis 4 Extra, Maxamet, 3V, 4V, 10V, 15V, or 125V? Have you heat treated them? Where do you Test your HRC on the blade and what numbers are you getting? "


1. I am knocking the work of what are considered the top end makers..... and not closing my eyes to the small differences and
I am not trying to be known as being at the top of the heap for any reason.

2. I try to make a knife that is functionally quite useful and looks fairly good.

3. I have been very pleasantly pleased with the feed back I get from customers.

4. I try not to get anal (I hate that word) about knife making as I once came close to being about reloading.

5. I do enjoy banter on a variety of topics, one of which is knives.

6. I do not have to be first in line with the next new thing. Some things are worth sticking with.


And, yes I still have my Sharp Finger. The second fixed blade I ever owned. The first is a Kinfolks which I still have.


Happy Thanksgiving to all.
My apology to carbon12 if he feels we ruined his post.

Tim
PS: I do not intend to come off as an expert or being absolutely correct, just present my experience, thoughts and opinions.
If I want "absolutely correct" I will ask my wife.

PS:

Alan
I think I have improved my product a measureable amount since the ones you got 10 years ago.
My goal is to keep improving, but I am not going for first place in the market place.

I learn a little here and there, but take almost nothing as "The gospel".
Just trying to fill a niche with the everyday user.
If it works for me and them, it is a winner in my book.

carbon12---Get the knife you are currently interested in and go from there.

Tim

Not at all.

Appreciate the responses to and fro.

I have used and enjoyed your knives very much. I am sure your work has improved since then for sure. But I wouldn't say your work was ever not good!

As revealed on this thread, after reading and watching a bunch of reviews of the RAT D2, I ordered one.
I was hoping for a wicked good D2 EDC for small money. After using it, I would rate it as: meh. Better than any of the 8Cr13Mov folders I have, but not by much.

[quote=michiganroadkill]

I believe I said that there are some makers out there pushing the envelope, but there just is not a LOT of room to push.
So the end result is not exactly a world of difference in users in the field.

Actually there is room and guys are pushing very hard. Look at cutting competitions as in chef knives, not the abusing chopper comp's. The heat treat is where there is the most room to seperate a great knife from the best of the best. Because angle, BTE, etc are pretty much developed to the most effective possible by all makers. Retaining the edge is what makes one a winner over the others. So we know that two things are the key ingredients for that, Steel type and Heat Treat.

And From above, it sounds to me like you are pushing the steel chemistry and sharpening process more than the heat treatment
----which was the O.P.s point if interest.

NOT at all! I pointed out to the OP that it was not the steel and that it was lack of proper heat treat.


6. I do not have to be first in line with the next new thing. Some things are worth sticking with.

Yeah it has worked for some makers. The average guy isn't a knife loonie. They care little if any about the knife other than it gets the job done. In all fairness pretty much any crap factory knife can and will get the job done. Hence how and why companies like Buck are able to stay in business. If someone has never used the best of something they don't know and or see value in something designed to excel. I have never driven a Bugatti and I don't see the value in one. I am pretty sure if I drove one I would want one! Hunters aren't exactly big spenders as a whole. So a $800 ++++ knife to them isn't even on their radar. Then you have the guys that do want a more efficient knife and dive into the custom market. Most stay in the lower end price point wise. Why? Because it gives them much improvement over a factory knife but is still in general terms not going to break the back.

Most don't understand the cost of making a knife as well. So you as a maker need to A) buy materials, tools, and supplies. B) need to be paid for your time. And C) hopefully make a profit. There are belts that cost $1K a piece. How many makers can afford a belt like that? Not many and those that could I bet are not willing to spend the coin. So when average guy see's a custom knife for sale at $800 ++++ isn't thinking about the cost to making a knife and or the makers time. What I find funny is makers up charge for the premium steels that eat belts. But they make it sound like its because of the cost of the blank. When in reality it is the time needed to grind and the belts need. The blank is not a huge cost.

You make a great knife at a very good price point. Your knives are head and shoulders about any factory made knife. I would say your work is in the area of most of the popular custom makers. I have suggest many people to your knives.

I am a connoisseur of knives. I see value in all well made knives. I follow fairly close the knife world. I can tell you that we live in a time where steel and heat treat are getting very close to perfection. However there are very few makers that want to put in the time, effort, and money to cultivate them. I totally understand why also. So I do thank, support, and admire those few that are diving into it.

I have a design in mind for you. When you finish up the big orders you have I'll see if you are interested in making it.

Happy Thanksgiving to you Tim.

Thanks MCH for you posts.

I should be done with this go round of M4 in Jan.
I am not planning a next program at this time.
I do have blades and blanks left over in CPM 154, S30V and M4 so will probably clean out some of that inventory.
Maybe Vince could pass them on for me.

carbon12---What is meh about the knife?????

BTW I am not a folder guy other than I always carry a small 3 blade US made Schrade product in my pocket.
I did, in a former life, grind about a zillion blades for Pro Tech though and have one of there knives with a blade I ground.,

Cut on
Tim

[quote=michiganroadkill
carbon12---What is meh about the knife?????


Tim[/quote]

Mediocre HT not befitting of D2.

again...deleted..