Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa .458 Winchester Model 70 Feeding Problem

I am interested if anyone else has encountered this problem and who (if anyone) is qualified to fix it.

The rifle is a PF which has been in the family since about 1980. I think this problem would occur whether it was PF or CRF.

Problem: The magazine holds three rounds in a staggered box magazine of course. The first and third are to the right and the second to the left. When the first round is ejected, the second round tends to tip upward, with the base held securely in the magazine but the nose tipped upward enough to sometimes hit the rifle above the chamber and fail to feed. Not good for dangerous game! The first and third rounds feed OK.

Analysis: The magazine appears to have identical dimensions, including the follower, as my pre-64 CRF in 30-06 caliber. These 30-06 rounds all remain parallel in the magazine and don't tip up.

Loading three 30-06 rounds in the .458 magazine works just fine! The rounds stay securely parallel to the barrel until the bolt pushes them into the chamber.

That gave me an idea. Load a 30-06 round into the .458 magazine first and follow it by two .458 rounds. Result: Both .458 rounds feed OK. The "second" round does not tip up its nose.

My conclusion: The .458 rounds are so much fatter that they sit in the "staggered" magazine more upright and less left-to-right. The left lip of the magazine does not properly restrain the second .458 round because the round needs to be more to the left (which I can accomplish by putting a 30-06 round, with its smaller diameter, in first).

The only fix I can see would be to have someone widen the magazine on the left side. OR...hunt dangerous game with only one in the magazine and one in the chamber...duh...

I would think this problem would be common on lots of Model 70s.

In the event I can't get this fixed, I will have to order, by mail, a DGR pretty pronto. No one seems to have one around here that I can try for fit. My concern is that some cheek pieces are too fat, and my eye naturally comes up to the left of the sights on these. If someone could recommend a "skinnier" one I would appreciate that. Weatherby's standard stock fits me just fine. For reasons I do not have time to debate, if I have to buy a DGR, it would preferably be a .375 H&H.

I have a stainless synthetic Weatherby Mk.V in .375 H&H. I traded for it, so have no idea what the retail value of a new one would be, but if you like Weatherby stocks, you could probably find one of these at a decent price. I took mine to Namibia last year and shot all of my game with it, as well as my Colorado elk year before last.

I don't like Weatherby stocks, so mine is at Hill Country Rifles getting a McMillan along with their accuracy package...

Hope you find something that works for you.

Is this a factory 458 or has it been rebarreled from a smaller caliber?

Good point!

The Model 70 PF .458 is the smoothest feeding rifle I own and have owned several prior to this one. Another fact is that the .458 PF has feed rails different from the .30/06 so that the cartridge is held in the magazine long enough to permit the bullet to enter the chamber before it lets the case head out of the abruptly tapered feed rails which are closer in the back half of the magazine.

This design in effect controls the feed so the cartridge is not absolutly free floating until the cartridge begins the entry into the chamber.

AGW

86theCat,

To the best of my knowledge, it is a factory Model 70, though I did not buy it. I inherited it. The magazine appears to be identical to my 30-06 CRF except that the magazine follower on the .458 is a slight bit shorter.

Sounds like a rebarrel. The magazine rails on a .458 are not identical to a .30/06.

AGW

I don't think it's a rebarrel. The barrel says Winchester on it. Also it may not be identical to a 30-06 since I did not look at the rails from the bottom.

You can see the magazine differences from the top. The magazine is wider in the front half to permit the cartridge head to slide out from under the magazine rails on the factory .458.

Don't forget that it is a simple conversion for a gunsmith to open the bolt face and modify the the extractor on a .30/06 action and then screw in a .458 barrel.

What about the stock? does it have a front sling swivel on the forend? What about cross bolts? There should be two steel cross bolts with a petal pattern on them?

Can you post a pic of hte rifle?

AGW

Indy,
Just for the heck of it I tried some 30-06 dummy reloads in my CRF 375H&H classic and the last one pops out when bolt is pulled back. Are there any markings on the mag box sheetmetal or follower? Seems odd Win would use a narrow box, but I don't have experience with these rifles. Is the problem occuring with ammo or dummy rounds? Some commercial dummy rounds are so slippery they tend to pop out of the mag even though brass rounds feed fine. Also check the spring for straightness, proper installation and tension. Maybe AGW can help from some pictures.

Always a push feed . . .

Aussie and 86,

I just took it to a gunsmith who was well-recommended by some friends.

The gunsmith thinks the magazine box was installed incorrectly, as the front left part is a little too much to the right, so the lip or rail cannot restrain the front of the cartridge. This looks like the problem to me as well, now that he showed it to me. He thinks he can fix this in a few days. I left him some handloads and factory ammo to work through the magazine. So perhaps the problem is solved.

Aussie, I don't know how to post pictures. The rifle has the front sling swivel on the barrel, not the forend, and has two cross bolts through the stock. That's as it should be. There is also a red recoil pad like they used to use and a black forend tip. there is a black (plastic?) cap on the pistol grip with the "W" Winchester logo on it. It is also glass bedded, obviously not a factory job.

Shooting this rifle off of shooting sticks is no worse than shooting my 300 Weatherby Ultra Lightweight. So I hope the problem is soon resolved. If not, I notice that brand new CZ rifles are available on the Internet in DG calibers for under $900.

It may be that you need to push the bullets all the way to the back of the magazine. When loading if they are not all the way back that particular cartridge has a tendency to tip up not loading properly. Had a similar problem with my remington 416 out of the custom shop. They had seen this happen when the bullets when loaded were not pushed back in the box. Try it.

Since a .458 has more than a little bit of recoil, what do you think is going to happen once the rifle is fired?

"It may be that you need to push the bullets all the way to the back of the magazine."

This might be a point because the defective magazine alignment is in the front part of the magazine. However, Barnes solids, whether 450 or 500 grain, loaded using the front-most crimping groove, are about as long as the whole magazine. Hornady 350 grain soft points, while considerably shorter, exhibit the same problem in feeding. Then there is 257 Roy's point about recoil.

I have a pre 64 in 375 H&H that was doing something similar. Ordered a new magazine box for like $20. The old was was slightly bent because some dummy before me had forced the box into the weapon from below without removing the stock and the lips had ever so slightly been warped. I summized that the correct method was to pull the stock and carefully put the box into the recess below the action, then you restock it.

The problem is solved.

Some dummy who owned the rifle before me had bent the magazine with a pliers for some reason. My gunsmith easily fixed this.