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A bullet causes Blunt Force Trauma, An arrow slices tissue, capillaries, blood vessels, and Arteries.
By definition, blunt force trauma is non penetrating. Think baseball bat to the torso as an example. Unless one is using bean bags or rubber bullets ... a bullet very much causes penetrating trauma. You are half right. "Center-fire rifle bullets also cause blunt trauma by tissue displacement (temporary cavitation). The ability of different tissues to survive this blunt trauma is related primarily to tissue elasticity and cohesiveness." Hit someone hard enough with a baseball bat in the head and you can get penetration. A bullet is not a sharp object but yes it does indeed penetrate. Once the bullet deforms it is nearly all blunt force trauma. Yes of course the petals can be sharp and create cutting. I will stand behind my statement. The general difference between a bullet and a broadhead is that the broadhead primarily only cuts wear as the bullet provides blunt force damage and shock. I also never said anywhere that a bullet does not produce penetrating trauma! No, you didn’t. After re-reading your post; the error is mine. Classification vs mechanism, and you are absolutely correct that there is a significant element of blunt force injury involved in the trauma to tissue caused by the bullet.
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Campfire Ranger
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I’ve shot a bunch of deer over the last several years at less than 15 yards, from 235# mule deer to 100 pound Blacktail, my .308 with 150TTSX and 168TSX. every one dropped in its tracks not taking so much as a single step.
Shot placement trumps speed and energy.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Speed, definitely. Energy has a role, as they're related due to simple physics and equations, but speed impresses critters much more than energy IME, all else being equal.
As far as lung shot DRT vs. runners with identical shot placement, identical bullets, impact velocity, etc., I read a study that basically concluded that if a bullet hits at the top of the heartbeat, arteries get WAY overloaded and rupture, causing instant death, where if the bullet strikes between heartbeats, this does not happen and they'll normally do their 20-50 yard death run. I have no idea if it is true or not, but found it interesting.
That’s why I carry a stethoscope, you know, so I can time the heartbeat, you know. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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A bullet causes Blunt Force Trauma, An arrow slices tissue, capillaries, blood vessels, and Arteries.
Gunshot wounds are not medically classified as BFT. and Arrow wounds are classified as SFT. Sharp force injuries are characterized by a relatively well-defined traumatic separation of tissue. Blunt force injuries. eg; commonly from motor vehicle collision, pedestrians being struck, airplane crashes, boating incidents, falling from heights, blast injuries, struck with fist or some form of firm implement etc, .. result from BFT.
I will stand behind my statement. The general difference between a bullet and a broadhead is that the broadhead primarily only cuts wear
as the bullet provides blunt force damage and shock.
have you ever read a forensic report of a person shot through with rounds destroying the vital organs or arteries and causing death having stated that they died primarily as result of BFT? wreck a vital organ or major artery [by bullet or broad-head] and the creature dies as result of blood loss.
.... the bullet provides blunt force damage and shock.
Can you shock an animal to death?.. Hydrostatic shock? .. A bullet is not a sharp object but yes it does indeed penetrate...
... Yes of course the petals can be sharp and create cutting.
Typically we are talking about/including common expanding projectiles like NP and Barnes X, so for most of the path through a live target, they are sharp and cut?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Well, I like speed, but not in any Weatherby chambering.
I watched enough elk hunter clients show up with their mark v's in the 1980's to sour me on the Weatherby product. One hunter told us his rifle was zero'd from the factory.
It just turned me off of anything Weatherby to this day.
The speed, energy, bullet equation has not been completley proven to me . I still use the mpbr concept, a Nosler partition and shorter , lighter carbine style rifle.
A little birdie hinted something about an ought six or a .270 Jack....kinda stuck with it. comerade, Which rifle would you prefer your client to use on your guiding trip, using your preference of MPBR? Of course providing the client could shoot each equally. One using a 150gr Partition @ 3245fps, MPBR 6" target 317yards = far zero @ 270 yards. -27" At 500 yards. One using a 150gr Partition @ 2830fps, MPBR 6" target 280yards = far zero @ 238 yards. -40" At 500 yards. No doubt both will kill an Elk. Just because the mechanic is an idiot doesn't mean the tool is wrong.
Ed
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Assuming you’ve selected a proper tool for the job, bullet construction then impact velocity.
Energy has nothing to do with it and is largely a meaningless measurement. So a bullet with zero energy will kill as well as a bullet with 4,000 ft-lbs of energy? About a 100 trillion bullets pass through your body every second of your life, each at nearly light speed. They are called neutrinos. Velocity is clearly not the only or even the most important factor in determining terminal effect. It is only one of several.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Ranger
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Well, I like speed, but not in any Weatherby chambering.
I watched enough elk hunter clients show up with their mark v's in the 1980's to sour me on the Weatherby product. One hunter told us his rifle was zero'd from the factory.
It just turned me off of anything Weatherby to this day.
.... Just because the mechanic is an idiot doesn't mean the tool is wrong. Absolutely ! !
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Assuming you’ve selected a proper tool for the job, bullet construction then impact velocity.
Energy has nothing to do with it and is largely a meaningless measurement. So a bullet with zero energy will kill as well as a bullet with 4,000 ft-lbs of energy? About a 100 trillion bullets pass through your body every second of your life, each at nearly light speed. They are called neutrinos. Velocity is clearly not the only or even the most important factor in determining terminal effect. It is only one of several. Neutrinos do have a small mass. Something estimated around 1/500,000 of an electron is my understanding. Perforated Dan
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Neutrinos do have a small mass. Something estimated around 1/500,000 of an electron is my understanding.
Perforated Dan
Agreed. And they have momentum and energy as well, as an inevitable result of having both mass and velocity. My point was that even thought they have near light-speed velocity, they do no discernible damage because the momentum and energy levels are so low. Velocity alone does nothing.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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The question "speed vs energy, which is more important?" erroneously presumes the two can be separated. They can't.
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What the BC on a Neutrino and can I get them factory loaded for my ‘06?
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Campfire Outfitter
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What the BC on a Neutrino and can I get them factory loaded for my ‘06? Don't know, but it has been estimated that 6 trillion miles of lead would only stop half of them.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Tracker
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If you ask most women they will tell you that they would rather have energy instead of speed.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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A bullet causes Blunt Force Trauma, An arrow slices tissue, capillaries, blood vessels, and Arteries.
By definition, blunt force trauma is non penetrating. Think baseball bat to the torso as an example. Unless one is using bean bags or rubber bullets ... a bullet very much causes penetrating trauma. You are half right. "Center-fire rifle bullets also cause blunt trauma by tissue displacement (temporary cavitation). The ability of different tissues to survive this blunt trauma is related primarily to tissue elasticity and cohesiveness." Hit someone hard enough with a baseball bat in the head and you can get penetration. A bullet is not a sharp object but yes it does indeed penetrate. Once the bullet deforms it is nearly all blunt force trauma. Yes of course the petals can be sharp and create cutting. I will stand behind my statement. The general difference between a bullet and a broadhead is that the broadhead primarily only cuts wear as the bullet provides blunt force damage and shock. I also never said anywhere that a bullet does not produce penetrating trauma! No, you didn’t. After re-reading your post; the error is mine. Classification vs mechanism, and you are absolutely correct that there is a significant element of blunt force injury involved in the trauma to tissue caused by the bullet. No error on your part. You just tried to make it more in-depth than I did. I tried to keep it short, simple, and straight forward. I should have stated penetrating force. Some on here will try to pick apart every little thing you say. Mean while the actual point flew right over their head. I can assure my doubters that a surgeon would much rather fix a Broadhead wound than a Bullet wound.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Lw308: Indeed place EVERY bullet, shot at game, correctly!
Speed (again placed correctly!) kills.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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K.E.=1/2mv^2 formula say you need both,
Neutrinos- very small mass, and at that speed behave more like a wave. (were did that damn cat go?)
momentum = the first derivative of K.E. = mv
Looking at which contributes the most to energy or K.E., the term m or mass is single order, whereas the velocity component is squared. So--- small increases in velocity give more to the energy than small increases in mass.
physics if your friend
Last edited by Etoh; 12/09/19.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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K.E.=1/2mv^2 formula say you need both,
Neutrinos- very small mass, and at that speed behave more like a wave. (were did that damn cat go?)
momentum = the first derivative of K.E. = mv
Looking at which contributes the most to energy or K.E., the term m or mass is single order, whereas the velocity component is squared. So--- small increases in velocity give more to the energy than small increases in mass.
physics if your friend physics if your friend, And English isn't!  IF, IS
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Campfire Outfitter
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K.E.=1/2mv^2 formula say you need both,
Neutrinos- very small mass, and at that speed behave more like a wave. (were did that damn cat go?)
... Depends on how you look at them.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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for the last 20 years hunting whitetail and muledeer bucks i have used 257 Weatherby Mags. 100 grain bullets either Nosler Partitions or Swift A-Frames ,with custom barrels on Remington 700 actions,Winchester pre-64 70, and now Ruger # 1`s which is my favorite action for deer. my handloads with the 100 grain bullet shoots 3800 fps. i have always done very well with just one single shot fired at all the bucks i and my son have killed and have had these bucks either went right down or never went over 50 yards.with respect my vote is a well placed shot ,a good bullet and always speed !
Last edited by pete53; 12/09/19.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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K.E.=1/2mv^2 formula say you need both,
Neutrinos- very small mass, and at that speed behave more like a wave. (were did that damn cat go?)
... Depends on how you look at them. yes and the moment the observation is made the measurement disappears, (Schrodinger wave equation)
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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