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I keep reading that in order for scopes to track and dial well they need to be heavy - SWFA or Nightforce for example.

It seems to be taken as gospel, my question is - WHY???

I understand that a thicker aluminum tube may be more resistant to bending or bumping damage but dialing and tracking are a function of the mechanics of the scope.
If the internals are machined properly and have erector springs heavy enough to assure enough pressure on the erector tube to place and keep it in position how much could this possibly add to the weight of the scope? Even if the adjustment assembly were made slightly larger and the springs slightly larger how much weight could that add? Not more than another ounce or two I would think.

So why do we not have a lightweight scope like a Leupold that tracks as well as the old 1980's El Paso Weaver T series scopes? I doubt that there are any unexpired patents on the Micro-tract system - it seems to me that a Leupold with the Micro-tract system would be the best of all worlds.

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Good question and logic. I'd like to know also.

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Maybe some use plastic parts inside while others use more metal pieces and lockdown screws instead of glue? Maybe bigger tube so internal lenses slightly larger and there’s 5-7 internal lenses sometimes... glass is fairly heavy.

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More robust internal parts made from steel or brass instead of aluminum or plastic. Physically bigger parts since most dialing scopes are 30 or 34mm, a cylindrical object of 30mm is going to be stronger than a 1" all else being equal. Physics is physics, your nissan sentra might have a bunch of airbags but if you get run into by a 72 Ford LTD you're probably going to lose.

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Those old T-6's weren't a lightweight, weighed in at 19 ozs.

I put one on my first Hunter Benchrest rifle, and had to send the barrel off for fluting to make weight.

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you guys are funny, one word MARKETING. keep in mind the scopes you and I would buy aren't really what might be the best selling. In fact I bet they wouldn't be. lets establish first that a scope that is good at accurate adjustment also needs to cost more money, We should be able to agree on that. keep in mind that there is the cost to make the scope, distribute and market the scope, and finally retail sell the scope. you have 3 pieces to the pie that a product must have taken from it in the marketplace. All of those levels need to make money. I have someone in my family that took a company you could have heard about public. he told me you need 6:1 cost to retail value at the least and 10:1 is way better. That means a scope that costs $600 retail, it can't cost more than $100 for it to be made.

what is selling in the riflescope business? TACTICAL SCOPES at least ones that people are paying lots of money for. who is buying those scopes? its the guys who shoot 20 pound chassis rifles off fake barricades. These are your seal team 6 wannabees. Those scopes are marketed to the lifted black truck crowd. Basically its a crowd that thinks bigger is better. Why on early does anyone need a 34mm or even larger tubed scope? the fact is no one does. a decently made 30mm tube scope has enough adjustment to get you beyond 1 mile with any decent long range cartridge. Also many 34 mm scopes don't even have any extra adjustment internally over a 30mm. in fact one of the founders of tract told me its common for scope companys to use 1" internals and just stick them in a 30mm tube scope. bigger, beefier scopes are frankly what scope companies think people want. I would actually agree with their assessment. Higher powered scopes are being chosen, which have to be larger.

your average lifted truck, arm tatted, shamog wearing, millennial type guy who grew up playing call of duty isn't going to want a wimpy light weight scope on their gun. There are some lighter weight scopes that dial, but that depends on what you think is lightweight I suppose. I just picked up a ziess v4 and it tracks dead nuts. I am going to do a review on it soon and will post the results. Another one is huskemaw. Those scopes do track and they are half a pound lighter than nightforce. but neither of those scopes get you any street cred or IMO are selling all that well.

oh lastly I just see that you are from idaho. face it most people don't have access to public lands like you and I do. So ask yourself how much different is their typical shooting experience. are they hiking in the mountains? where is most of their shooting taking place? on a gun range 50 feet from their truck. of if they are hunting they drive a 4 wheeler up to the deer stand,

Last edited by cumminscowboy; 12/12/19.
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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
you guys are funny, one word MARKETING. keep in mind the scopes you and I would buy aren't really what might be the best selling. In fact I bet they wouldn't be. lets establish first that a scope that is good at accurate adjustment also needs to cost more money, We should be able to agree on that. keep in mind that there is the cost to make the scope, distribute and market the scope, and finally retail sell the scope. you have 3 pieces to the pie that a product must have taken from it in the marketplace. All of those levels need to make money. I have someone in my family that took a company you could have heard about public. he told me you need 6:1 cost to retail value at the least and 10:1 is way better. That means a scope that costs $600 retail, it can't cost more than $100 for it to be made.

what is selling in the riflescope business? TACTICAL SCOPES at least ones that people are paying lots of money for. who is buying those scopes? its the guys who shoot 20 pound chassis rifles off fake barricades. These are your seal team 6 wannabees. Those scopes are marketed to the lifted black truck crowd. Basically its a crowd that thinks bigger is better. Why on early does anyone need a 34mm or even larger tubed scope? the fact is no one does. a decently made 30mm tube scope has enough adjustment to get you beyond 1 mile with any decent long range cartridge. Also many 34 mm scopes don't even have any extra adjustment internally over a 30mm. in fact one of the founders of tract told me its common for scope companys to use 1" internals and just stick them in a 30mm tube scope. bigger, beefier scopes are frankly what scope companies think people want. I would actually agree with their assessment. Higher powered scopes are being chosen, which have to be larger.

your average lifted truck, arm tatted, shamog wearing, millennial type guy who grew up playing call of duty isn't going to want a wimpy light weight scope on their gun. There are some lighter weight scopes that dial, but that depends on what you think is lightweight I suppose. I just picked up a ziess v4 and it tracks dead nuts. I am going to do a review on it soon and will post the results. Another one is huskemaw. Those scopes do track and they are half a pound lighter than nightforce. but neither of those scopes get you any street cred or IMO are selling all that well.

oh lastly I just see that you are from idaho. face it most people don't have access to public lands like you and I do. So ask yourself how much different is their typical shooting experience. are they hiking in the mountains? where is most of their shooting taking place? on a gun range 50 feet from their truck. of if they are hunting they drive a 4 wheeler up to the deer stand,



I buy them and use them on my hunting rifles. I do not own any rifles the weight you describe.



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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
you guys are funny, one word MARKETING. keep in mind the scopes you and I would buy aren't really what might be the best selling. In fact I bet they wouldn't be. lets establish first that a scope that is good at accurate adjustment also needs to cost more money, We should be able to agree on that. keep in mind that there is the cost to make the scope, distribute and market the scope, and finally retail sell the scope. you have 3 pieces to the pie that a product must have taken from it in the marketplace. All of those levels need to make money. I have someone in my family that took a company you could have heard about public. he told me you need 6:1 cost to retail value at the least and 10:1 is way better. That means a scope that costs $600 retail, it can't cost more than $100 for it to be made.

what is selling in the riflescope business? TACTICAL SCOPES at least ones that people are paying lots of money for. who is buying those scopes? its the guys who shoot 20 pound chassis rifles off fake barricades. These are your seal team 6 wannabees. Those scopes are marketed to the lifted black truck crowd. Basically its a crowd that thinks bigger is better. Why on early does anyone need a 34mm or even larger tubed scope? the fact is no one does. a decently made 30mm tube scope has enough adjustment to get you beyond 1 mile with any decent long range cartridge. Also many 34 mm scopes don't even have any extra adjustment internally over a 30mm. in fact one of the founders of tract told me its common for scope companys to use 1" internals and just stick them in a 30mm tube scope. bigger, beefier scopes are frankly what scope companies think people want. I would actually agree with their assessment. Higher powered scopes are being chosen, which have to be larger.

your average lifted truck, arm tatted, shamog wearing, millennial type guy who grew up playing call of duty isn't going to want a wimpy light weight scope on their gun. There are some lighter weight scopes that dial, but that depends on what you think is lightweight I suppose. I just picked up a ziess v4 and it tracks dead nuts. I am going to do a review on it soon and will post the results. Another one is huskemaw. Those scopes do track and they are half a pound lighter than nightforce. but neither of those scopes get you any street cred or IMO are selling all that well.

oh lastly I just see that you are from idaho. face it most people don't have access to public lands like you and I do. So ask yourself how much different is their typical shooting experience. are they hiking in the mountains? where is most of their shooting taking place? on a gun range 50 feet from their truck. of if they are hunting they drive a 4 wheeler up to the deer stand,


I fail to see how marketing or profit margins play into scope size, but I didn't study economics so it may be that.
What I know is that anything subject to stress is going to have to be beefier.
Seal team6 wannabes have nothing to do with weight I think. I don't think Linebackers weight 300lb due to marketing, they do because they perform better than a 155lb one would. Subject a 160lb soyboy to the stress of NFL attackers and it will crumble, no matter how well he does on flag football during the block parties with kids.

I'm sure they could make super rugged scopes out of extra light unobtainium, but wallets will also be extra light, and not too much market share would pay those prices.
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if scope size isn't marketing then why are companies offering 34, 35 and even 40mm tube scopes? Some of which weigh in excess of 3 pounds. a 30mm nightforce NXS has been shot with a bullet, run over by a truck, used in real war situation and is 30 oz. but the hubble telescopes being sold are 3 + pounds and have 34-40mm main tubes. Look at burris XTR, 34 mm main tube but has less internal adjustment than a 30mm nightforce NXS. that scope is 34 mm for one reason and one reason only, marketing. yes the bigger is better mentality is real.

long range hunting scopes don't sell, believe me I hate it!! huskemaw, stupid name, great scopes but not many uses them, john burns sold a modded leupold years ago, G7 optics, have moved into other things besides long range hunting scopes. FFP scopes and these massive tactical scopes are what the high end market wants. we can get mad all day long but at the end of the day you or I will be in the same camp as the people that say why don't more companies offer a fixed 6x scope.

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Send it!!!!

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I am still waiting for a scope with a carbon fiber tube and plastic internal lenses. My eye glasses are extremely light and very scratch resistant so I know plastic lenses can be good.


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3. 2. 1.

CONTACT


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Originally Posted by Ringman
I am still waiting for a scope with a carbon fiber tube and plastic internal lenses. My eye glasses are extremely light and very scratch resistant so I know plastic lenses can be good.


Carbon Fiber main tube is available.


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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There is so much misinformation in this thread it’s not even funny. A 34mm tube has the same internal adjustment as a 30mm tube? Maybe on a Chicom special, but not any reputable scope. 6-10x cost to retail? Again maybe chicom garbage. I have a Nightforce manufacturing cost list, and they are not makin a killing off their scopes.

Bottom line is, non-plastic internals weigh more, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
you guys are funny, one word MARKETING. keep in mind the scopes you and I would buy aren't really what might be the best selling. In fact I bet they wouldn't be. lets establish first that a scope that is good at accurate adjustment also needs to cost more money, We should be able to agree on that. keep in mind that there is the cost to make the scope, distribute and market the scope, and finally retail sell the scope. you have 3 pieces to the pie that a product must have taken from it in the marketplace. All of those levels need to make money. I have someone in my family that took a company you could have heard about public. he told me you need 6:1 cost to retail value at the least and 10:1 is way better. That means a scope that costs $600 retail, it can't cost more than $100 for it to be made.
,



I wonder how cc explains a $499 SWFA 3-9x HD?


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
you guys are funny, one word MARKETING. keep in mind the scopes you and I would buy aren't really what might be the best selling. In fact I bet they wouldn't be. lets establish first that a scope that is good at accurate adjustment also needs to cost more money, We should be able to agree on that. keep in mind that there is the cost to make the scope, distribute and market the scope, and finally retail sell the scope. you have 3 pieces to the pie that a product must have taken from it in the marketplace. All of those levels need to make money. I have someone in my family that took a company you could have heard about public. he told me you need 6:1 cost to retail value at the least and 10:1 is way better. That means a scope that costs $600 retail, it can't cost more than $100 for it to be made.
,



I wonder how cc explains a $499 SWFA 3-9x HD?


I just bought one and it arrived today in fact!!! oh you just wait, I am waiting for the video equipment to show up and we are going to put that baby on a tall target and see what happens. if it's a joke like the 20x was, we are going to know it. I still don't like the reticle on the lowest power. but didn't get a chance to check it in low light, but I am thinking I will be disappointed. It really needs to be bumped up to 5x or so for best visibility.

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That’s going to be a highly anticipated video. Get after it!

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Just don’t forget these!

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You guys are funny. All 225 pounds of me can hang off the thing, yes I checked. What do I gotta do break out the mig welder? It’s ok this time the video is going to be inside the scope, You will know it if there is a problem

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Amazing thread, and not because of actual info.

In fact, JFC, if you'll excuse the term (which might means Just For Consideration, but doesn't).


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