24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
MD, a question in the TAC thread regarding the .356 Winchester prompted me to run a QuickLOAD powder profile, which I posted to the thread. I was curious about LT30's position in the chart relative to a few powders that seem to be good candidates for that cartridge, and I lamented the absence of this powder in my QL database. To my surprise, it lands right next to Accurate 1680. I never loaded for the .22 Hornet, but I was told a long time ago the W680 was once considered THE powder for the Hornet. I also understand (and hopefully not erroneously) that Accurate 1680 was supposed to be very close to W680 in burn rate, but it just never quite performed as well as W680 in the Hornet. Anyway, I was wondering---for no particular reason really, whether you have ever explored the possibility of using LT30 in the Hornet since you're a fan and regular user of the cartridge.

Seems like a worthy venture to me, if it hasn't already proven to be less than a viable combination.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Burn-rate charts are only an approximation, partly due to the different ways various powders burn at different pressures. Plus, even with the improvements to QL, it is still a computer approximation, nor reality, despite how well it often works.

Have found LT-30 just about perfect in the .222 Remington, which has at least twice the capacity of the .22 Hornet.

The only slightly slower-burning powder than Li'l Gun I've found to work well in the .22 Hornet is Alliant 3100. Even CFE300BLK is a little too slow, though it works well in the K-Hornet and, especially, the .17 Hornet.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Interesting thought. I have never used LT30 in my 22 Hornet, but 1680 is THE powder for accuracy in my rifle (a Ruger #1 with some tuning). It gives up ~200 fps velocity with a 40gr V-Max compared to Lil'Gun or H110, but no other powder comes close to shooting as well in that rifle as a nearly-full case of 1680. Something about that combo ended up being magic, while most everything else was just "blah".

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
John, what is Alliant 3100?? Is that a discontinued powder I have forgotten about or a new one I've never heard of? I'm sure you did not mean AA3100.

Yondering, that's how I feel about LT32 for launching 50s in my .222...I give up somewhere around 200 fps, but with the accuracy I'm getting out if it *I* *DON'T* *CARE!*


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Alliant 3100 is a mythological powder, invented by a gun writer with the magic of typographical error. It's actually Alliant 300-MP--which I usually call in my notes 300.

Must also note that my particular Ruger No. 1B would average five shots under 1/2" at 100 yards, using Li'l Gun and 40-grain Ballistics Tips--if the brass was sorted for consistent neck thickness, and sized in my Lee Loader. If neck-sized in my Redding "S" die with unsorted cases, the same load would do around 3/4" at 100--for 10 shot-groups. But only with CCI 450 Magnum primers. Other SR primers did OK, but 450's were the deal, both with Li'l Gun and Alliant 300.

In that particular rifle 1680 never matched those powders, either in accuracy or velocity. But as has often been noted, rifles are individuals, and in my experience smaller cartridges result in even more individualism. One thing I noticed when playing a lot with the .221 Remington Fireball some years ago is that most rifles preferred either Li'l Gun or Reloder 7 with bullets around 40 grains, but not usually both.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B2

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,467
smile

Thanks. Thought I might be slippin a cog.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
About 11gr of H110 and either CCI500 or F100M primers has produced the smallest groups from my Hornet, but I've never shot them side by side against the LiLGun load, which did pretty well too. Either is plenty good enough, and the LG pressure is much lower.

Wonderful round. Sometimes I wonder why I futz around with anything else.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
I like RiverRider have been looking at the new burn rate chart.........first thing that I noticed is where they put both LT-30 and LT-32. they show both as being faster than the 4198's. I don't buy that for a second.
Another is 2015BR, where they have it on this list might have been the right spot when it was made in Israel or the Czech Republic but now that it's made in Canada it is a slower powder

seems like they are not too Accurate with Accurate grin

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Originally Posted by Pappy348
About 11gr of H110 and either CCI500 or F100M primers has produced the smallest groups from my Hornet, but I've never shot them side by side against the LiLGun load, which did pretty well too. Either is plenty good enough, and the LG pressure is much lower.

Wonderful round. Sometimes I wonder why I futz around with anything else.


Pappy,

Have owned numerous .22 Hornets and K-Hornets over the years, but don't have any these days. For my purposes (mostly varmint hunting) I eventually decided the .17 Hornady Hornet worked better. This realization took a while, but eventually I realized my .22 Hornets weren't getting used in the field much.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
boatanchor,

Yeah, I also suspect Hodgdon is still using older info for some powders offered by other companies in this chart.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B3

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
2
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
2
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718

Originally Posted by Mule Deer


Pappy,

Have owned numerous .22 Hornets and K-Hornets over the years, but don't have any these days. For my purposes (mostly varmint hunting) I eventually decided the .17 Hornady Hornet worked better. This realization took a while, but eventually I realized my .22 Hornets weren't getting used in the field much.



You sold your #1?!!!
What was the final round count, and did your bore scope ever show signs of erosion?

I’ve wanted a 17 Hornet for a while now (measured in years I guess) but knowing you made the switch officially seals the deal.

Last edited by 222Rem; 12/12/19.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Final round count was in the mid-2000s, and any signs of erosion were so faint I might have been imagining them.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
2
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
2
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
Thanks for the reply. Given how long you had it, and how well rodents reproduce, I was actually expecting about five times that. Still a very valid field report, so thank you.

Please keep us posted on how well the 17H bore holds up to colony work. If barrel life is shorter, then that’s a bit of a tie breaker in my mind.............also assuming my sense of humor would also remain consistent with reloading those tiny little bullets in volume. The 17H looks like a solid design, and a better cartridge for the CZ since the Ruger #1 is a unicorn at this point.


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
The round count on the Ruger .22 Hornet was relatively low for two reasons:

First, I normally take 4-5 rifles on any PD shoot, both to rotate when the barrels get hot, and to try different stuff. Didn't use it all that much on "gophers" (what most people call Rchardson's and Columbian ground squirrels in Montana) because they're easily handled by rimfires--from the .22 Long Rifle up through the .17 HMR--and I bought my first HMR not long after acquiring the Hornet.

While plastic-tipped 40-grain spitzers and new powders like Li'l Gun extended the effective range of the .22 Hornet considerably, due to wind-drift and trajectory it's still basically at most a 250-yard prairie dog round, and 200 is really more practical. Since PD's are generally far spookier than gophers (especially if theyve been shot at before) the .22 Hornet was primarily used when starting on a town. After dogs got spookier with the initial shooting, I generally switched to a longer-range cartridge.

The .223 is most common these days, but eventually I worked my way through a bunch of others. My first real favorite was the .17 Fireball, since it had enough zip to be relatively easy to consistently hit PD's at 300 or a little more--and by consistently hit I mean hitting more than missing. Have yet to shoot PD's with anybody who does that beyond 300-350 under typical wind conditions.

Loved the .17 Fireball because, like the .22 Hornet, it recoiled so little I could watch the bullets hit through even when using a sporter-weight rifle. (I like sporters as my PD rifles because I also tend to do a lot of walking as well as shooting off benches or pickup hoods. Only time I use heavies anymore is for shooting beyond 500 yards, and don't do that as much as I used to.)

Then I tried the .17 Hornet, and could not see any practical difference between it and the .17 Fireball, plus the Hornet used about 2/3 the powder and the cases were cheaper and far more available. Plus, my particular Hornet is a CZ 527 which turned out to be a little more accurate than my Remington 700 .17 Fireball.

These days I use the .17 for shooting PD's out to around 300 yards, which means it does most of my PD shooting. From 300-350 use a .204 Ruger, and beyond 500 use whatever rifles chambered for bigger rounds made the trip, from a fast-twist .223 to various 6mm's, and once in a whole something considerably larger. But those are often used simply for testing new bullets, scopes, etc. at longer ranges, not for reducing PD numbers. And that is still the main point for the ranchers whose land I shoot on.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
My Hornet will stick, mostly because I like it so much, but also because it's on the list of stuff to be passed on to my sons. Selling it would cause quite a stir among the hopeful legatees.

Gonna whack a doe with it someday, just because.

Do you have a single-loading block for your CZ? I used a Bob's Sled in my 527 Grendel, and it made range work much simpler.

Last edited by Pappy348; 12/14/19.

What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Have never had much difficulty reloading the detachable magazine, whether at the range or in the field. When shooting PD's just leave a round in the chamber during lulls, in case a bull rodent charges, then pull the magazine and stuff a few more in, from a shirt pocket full of ammo.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
The fat little 6.5s were maybe a bit tougher to stuff. The Bob's Sled was actually designed for the 7.62x39, but Bob let me try one on "approval". Sent the check the day I received it. Worked flawlessly; just drop one in the port and close the bolt. The extractor picked up the rim perfectly. Not sure if Bob makes them for the little rounds, but I think maybe Calhoon does, if anyone else is interested.

Lovely little rifles, but mine never quite lived up to my expectations despite a good bit of futzing with it. To boot, it was heavier than my Fieldcraft, so off it went. I do like the Grendel, so one of Darrik's Howas is on its way.

Last edited by Pappy348; 12/15/19. Reason: Corrected spelling of Calhoon, if MD is right

What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Yep, Jim Calhoon makes a single-shot insert for smaller rounds in the 527.

Mine puts 5 shots consistently under .5 at 100.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
736 members (10gaugemag, 257 roberts, 222Sako, 16penny, 160user, 12344mag, 78 invisible), 2,709 guests, and 1,371 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,624
Posts18,398,651
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.282s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8805 MB (Peak: 1.0124 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 15:27:13 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS