Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Anybody do any deer hunting with cast?

Just wondering if I was the only one around here to hunt with cast rifle bullets this year? Took my buck with jacketed out of the 257 Roberts because of location, but used cast out of the 308 for both does this year. I'd been working with an old (1959-1960?) JC Higgins 51-L in 308 with the NOE clone of the Saeco #315 bullet. 180 gr in my alloy, the truncated cone, tapered body was just the ticket in the worn barrel and oversized throat of this rifle. I powder coated and water dropped out of the oven to simplify handling and keep dirt off when pocket carried. Tried several powders, working up to 2400 fps with H4350 and H4831SC, but settled on Varget at 2150-2200. For those concerned about reduced loads with the slow powders, I've been assured by a couple accomplished lead load experimenters that detonation isn't a problem with lead loads like it is jacketed.
Took two does so far at roughly 100 yards. First was facing me, impact was inside the right shoulder, bullet ran diagonally to the left flank and exited, re-entered the meaty part of the left rear leg and exited the back side. Plenty of penetration. Doe ran maybe 60 yards.
Second was nearly broadside, centered the near shoulder, a bit higher than planned, exited behind the far shoulder with a 2" hole. Lots of blood. Doe made it 30 yards.
I'm having a hard time convincing myself I would need anything else for much of my hunting areas where shots tend to be under 150 yards.

Yes sir, I do and I believe a number of others here do as well.

I'm partial to my 35 calibers for cast bullet hunting, and have mostly used the 245gr Saeco #352 (1st pic below) for full power 35 Remington-ish loads, and my own 255gr hollow point design (second pic below, ignore the text that was for a different topic) for suppressed subsonic loads. Both bullets are excellent deer killers.

Saeco #352:


255gr hollow point for 1,000 fps loads:

Very nice results, just shows you what the correct alloy at the right velocity will do. I haven't used anything but cast in my revolvers for the last 45-48 years, haven't owned a rifle for at least 25 years. No jacketed bullets for me. I've taken a lot more game than deer from Alaska to Africa using cast.

Dick

I remember taking 2 bucks one morning with 2 shots from a trusted 06. I used the RCBS 30-180-FN at 1800. Cast works great when properly applied.

Got one more doe tag, if I fill it I'll use my old Marlin 336 rebored to 38-55 with Skinner peep and a fiber optic front. A 9 bhn 250 grain bullet at 1400 will get the job done, faster than the black powder loads the cartridge made it's reputation on. I used it a couple years ago at 1600, but the large meplat made more mess than I wanted. We'll see how it works this time.

You guys with those sixguns are a wonder to me, wish I had that kind of ability.

Do round balls count ?

yep - 54 cal round ball over 90 grains of FF..

Sure, my son used a homecast Lee REAL in my 50 cal New Englander on a buck earlier in the fall.

I have taken deer with the 38-55 and 45-70....no problems with either. Mostly resulted in the ole 40 yd death dash. However, I plan to start using the RCBS 180 gr FN in my 30 cals next season. Just got the mold a couple of weeks ago. Never worried about the alloy with the bigger calibers, but plan to work with a softer alloy to get some expansion. Those comments above that referred to 30 cal, what alloys/hardness were you using.

I used an alloy approximately 1 3/4 % tin, 2 1/2% antimony on mine, powder coated and water dropped after coming out of the oven from the pc since I had plans of seeing how fast I could run them. From the damage I saw there was definitely some mushrooming going on. I’ve read that the heat treated bullets act just like air dropped on impact , but hold the rifleing like harder alloys. I don’t have any way to show + or - on that, but they worked well so far on two does

My 35 cal bullets pictured above were all straight WW alloy. The subsonic hollow points were air cooled, while the full power 35 Remington loads were heat treated and water quenched.

Quench hardening these alloys does make a difference on expansion (i.e. it can prevent expansion if velocity is too low) but works well for the high velocity stuff or large flat points at medium speed.

Getting expansion for hunting from cast bullet alloys is like standing up a tripod, where the three legs are velocity, alloy hardness, and meplat size (or hollow point shape). If those three things are balanced about right it can work very well, but if one of those doesn't match the other two, the whole thing falls on it's face. Fortunately there is quite a bit of wiggle room in all of those so it's not too hard to figure out a good hunting load.

Also - I don't worry too much about maximum weight retention any more. I've found that a bullet nose that fragments or blows apart can be a very effective killer, as long as the remaining shank can penetrate deeply. Done right, that is a lot more like Nosler Partition performance than like a Barnes TSX. Even with that subsonic (i.e. 1,000 fps muzzle velocity) hollow point above, I've seen it blow the nose off on a broadside whitetail shot and take a golf-ball sized chunk out of the heart and lungs while embedding fragments in the spine and sternum from the inside, with the remaining bullet shank breaking the far shoulder and exiting.

With the wide meplat bullets I used in the 38-55 and 45-70, I never thought expansion was needed and my experiences backed that up. With 30 caliber and such, even with a wide meplat (which the RCBS 180 FN has) would be helped along by some expansion. I've been thinking that straight wheel weight would do it, but that a soft nose/hard shank bullet might be better. There will be some experimentation before next season, but I appreciate hearing y'all's experiences.

It has been my experience that wheel weights with 2% tin added will expand down to about 1700fps. I generally use a 50/50 mix of wheel weights and pure lead plus 2% tin. That will give me expansion out past 200 yards with a Lyman 311041. Without over expanding at 25 yards, if muzzle velocity is around 2,000.

I've been hunting with cast for a long time now. I havent cast for anything smaller than the 444 though. Using straight wheelweights water quenched out of the mold I have had excellent results on large game, including grizzly bears. In the 444 I really like the Lee 300 grain mold. This bullet doesn't expand, and doesn't need too.

Sounds like what I'm looking for....thanks!

Took my third and final doe this afternoon using the #315 clone in the 308. Word to the wise, don't take on the near shoulder joint on a quartering to deer when pushing these at 2200 fps. Bullet exited the far flank, but made quite a mess of that shoulder.

Cast bullets are all I've used for the last 25 or so years. It started with the old Sharps and Winchester cartridges, 45-70 and 40-82 mostly. Moved "up" to the 45-90 and 11.15 X 60R, then a 40-70. All but the 40-82 over BP. No 40 yard death dash with any of them. Deer and hogs and one goat simply crumpled where they stood. Started playing with 35cal./9mm, 9.3 and 8mm cartridges and found them nearly as effective. Smokeless I believe I like the 9mm and 9.3 though I've not had any bad results with 8mm. All bullets with nice meplats. Black powder...I think anything 40 cal. and up with at least 370 grs. of bullet, (with a nice meplat) and 60 or more grains of powder would me more than adequate. Cast bullets, if the right profile, just work. A good alloy doesn't hurt anything either.

Good show, Yondering and well done Ole 270!

That velocity number may be correct for one particular bullet you're using, but it varies a LOT with meplat size and nose shape. A wider meplat will generally expand at much lower velocity, and may come unglued at higher speed. A round nose, on the other hand, usually requires more velocity to expand. The hollow points in my picture above obviously expand well, and they only started out at 1,000 fps.

I try to avoid overgeneralizing about this stuff because it lead to some very flawed conclusions.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that large meplat bullets are undesirable for most rifle loads exceeding ~2,000 fps or so, unless combined with harder alloys to limit expansion (and that only works to a certain extent). I have also learned to not bother with softer alloy noses in rifle bullets for use over 2,000 fps or so even with very small meplats; it's just unnecessary unless you're trying to make the nose blow off on impact.

Low velocity (like black powder rifle or handgun speeds) loads are a different thing entirely, and can benefit from larger meplats and soft alloys where appropriate.

.30 190 grain, from a 40 year old custom Saeco mold. Pushed by 28 grains 3031 in .30-30's, .303 Savages. It has accounted for a mess of deer. I cast them of COWW's and a pinch of tin, bhn 10-12.

You ever chrono'ed those loads. gnoahhh?