Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Stith Rifle Mounts

Does anyone have any link or advise where I could find information on 'Stith' scope mounts as far as their history, what firearms they were made for, ie. any and all information about them. I've read bits of info on this forum, here and there on 'the web', and also on the 'Savage Shooters' forum, but nothing that gives a full concise history on them. Just interested in expanding my knowledge on them. Have a set on my 250 Savage 99G, was looking hard at the set Fireball 2 had for sale a little while ago. Curious, what is the approximate cost for the unit 'Lightfoot' has for sale.

The only recorded info on the Stith mounts that I know of is in the Nick Stroebel publication of Old Rifle Scopes. I've accumulated a lot of knowledge but have never taken the time to put it in a document.

the site Savage99.com has several pics of Stith mounts.

My Lightfoot mount is currently at $185 shipped. The acquisition cost of the Leupold mount it is built around keeps climbing so I had to up it again.

You really should Mike. At least as it applies to Savage rifles.
M.L. Stith/San Antonio, models for 1899/99, variations, sizes, scope compatibility, examples, etc.
We can figure out how to complete it, clean it up and post/preserve it.

Thanks Lightfoot. Agree with S. WI Savage, ya should list it somehow. If ya can't appreciate your input. Will consider your mount if I decide to scope my 99R 300 Savage. Guess I came to the party late, not really sure what you mean by "The acquisition cost of the Leupold mount....:."---- Have an idea, but just guessing.

That's an understatement of gross proportion.

When it comes to bases and mounts and scopes Mike (hasn't) wrote the book.

Yet.

It should be recorded for future generations.

Just sayin.

Below is a list of the variations that I own for 99s. Does anyone know if there was a 3/4" with windage adjustment? I'm starting to think they don't exist or if they do they must be uncommon. Also it seems there are different variations of the dove tail mounts on the 3/4" models, some have steeper slopes. At first I thought someone had hit it with a file, but after obtaining more 3/4" mounts I saw the same variation of the dovetail mount in multiple instances. One is almost completely flat and will fit an octagon barrel ( need to shim the tang mount though ) and the other one has a noticeable slope, my guess is for different barrel tapers.


1" with objective bell

1" with objective bell, windage variation

1" without objective bell

1" without objective bell, windage variation

7/8" no objective bell

7/8" no objective bell, windage variation

3/4" no objective bell

1" Stith master mount

I have a copy of an instruction sheet that I think Lightfoot posted a while back, the Savage 99 mounts came with three dovetail inserts of different angles marked 1, 2 & 3 and you were supposed to find the correct one for your barrel contour and then return the others. I've got some Stith mount parts that I will be going through.

I have a 3/4" windage, the mount is the same as the 7/8" & 1" but the ring is made of steel.

Gene, does that 3/4" steel ring look factory original? Have never seen one that wasn't aluminum on the windage models.

It's factory original, even has a code on it, appears to be E1K.

Here is the 3/4 windage (right) compared to a regular 3/4.


The ring for the windage has a step in the bottom.


The ring screws go in the opposite side from the larger aluminum ones.

I always assumed that the windage adjustable mounts came much later possible fully
replacing the earlier type mounts and by that time using 3/4" scopes was less popular.

dovetail sets for 99's


some dovetails for other applications


different mounting variations, the two on the right have the dovetail integral with the swiveling piece

Great posting Gene.

"The ring screws go in the opposite side from the larger aluminum ones."

Is the ring reservable?

"Dovetail sets for 99's... #1,2,3 for the 99"

Do you know what barrels the #1, 2, and 3 are for? (Gene/Mike/anyone)

Interesting pictures and information. How did the windage adjustable mounts work? Read somewhere on a post that the 'Master Mount' variation had some issues of some kind. If so, what would that have been?

The Master mounts were not a no-drill installation. They were made for scopes with no internal adjustments.

The windage adjustable style was for scopes with only elevation adjustments. But, in reality most of the setups I've seen were with scopes with full internal adjustments.

Rick, the ring in the windage mounts are not really reversible, the bottom has the step in it so the front of it is even with the front of the base, if turned around it would set almost 1/4" back, Trying to turn a couple around I found you could not get the screws both in on the 3/4 because there wasn't enough clearance and on the 1" the screws would go it but the ring was offset enough in the base that it would allow almost no tilting of the ring for horizontal alignment.

The windage mounts work by tightening & loosening the two screws on opposite sides, the opening in the base is slightly wider than the width of the lower part of the ring allowing a little side to side adjustment. The ring also sets a little high to allow it to tilt a little for horizontal alignment. Basically the ring floats in the base held only on the ends of the two mounting screws. These are not related to the Master Mounts.

Trying to measure the angles of the 99 dovetails using an old Starret protractor head (accurate to only about 1° & now beyond my eye sight to even read it that close) I get the # 1's coming out between 1° & 1½°, the #2's between 2½° & 3° and the #3's between 3½° & 4°. I tried stacking some to multiply the angle to make it easier to read but that just resulted in looking for dovetail mounts on the floor.

Good information, learned more in this thread than in wearing my fingers out on the keyboard searching for it.

I was referring to the 3/4" ring in this photo. Looked like it could be reversed to put the screws same as with the 1". Might not have been many of that style made if Mike hasn't seen one.


[quote=GeneB]The ring for the windage has a step in the bottom.




I assume the #1, 2 and 3 base has to do with barrel diameter and dovetail location. Was hoping someone had determined which one was used on what barrel style.

Not a Savage, but neat Stith mounts holding a Weaver 330 M8 on an old Model 1917:

I think Stith mounts in the beginning were custom made for your rifle. Is the dovetail factory or added? That mounts look more like a Do-It-Yourself adopted/modified to fit. Maybe a Win 70 rear?

I've never seen a 1917 Enfield with a dovetail in the barrel. Has to be cut/custom fit. Although most Enfield's I've seen pictures of or eyeballed had the rear handguard on. My 1917 Enfield doesn't have any dovetail cut, nor any barrels I've seen had any. There would not have been any reason for the factory to cut a dovetail in the barrels for the functioning of the rifle or any parts. Interesting rig though!

Rick, the bottom ring in the picture is the 3/4" windage, the upper one is a standard for comparison, I should have labeled them in the picture - you can see if the windage ring is reversed the notch would be to the rear, and it doesn't quite fit, the mounting holes are not quite in the center of the lower extension. You may also notice the non-windage ring has slotted head screws, this seems to be what was used in the earlier mounts.





Since they are all slightly different angles the use would be determined by the barrel taper at the dovetail. The angles I got were not done with the most accurate tools for that purpose but I think they do fall into the ranges I gave, not all were exactly the same and the measurement was of the angle from the bottom of the dovetail to the top and would only be accurate it the dovetail milled into the gun were parallel with the top of the barrel. If one could measure the angle he bottom of the dovetail makes to the top front of the receiver that would determine which one to use. I do not have any 99's of the correct era to check these with.

GeneB-I thought to myself when you first posted the picture of the Stith mounts that the photo of the one above this post that the two screws on the sides of the rear mount must be for adjusting the windage. Was it pretty effective? It's a pretty basic method it seems to adjust a scope with no internal adjustments. Interesting mount.