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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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I've just acquired a Winchester 94 Sporter, the one with then24 inch barrel and half hexagon. I've looked around and down here in Australia the best available powder for the cartridge is Varget. I'm starting fresh with Hornady brass, some CCI LR primers. So far I've worked up a load to 33 grains of Varget using the Hornady 160gn FTX bullet. There are no signs of pressure with this load, but I just thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone has experience using Varget in the 30/30. It may seem strange to some but in all my years of hunting and shooting this is the first lever gun I've ever owned. The plan is to get back to the basics of hunting.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't use Varget in loading the 30-30 yet have read over the years of 30-30 shooters who have. My powders of choice has been CFE-223 and Hodgdon "LVR" powder loading the Hornady 160 gr FTX bullet....... a great bullet for the 30-30 but then I don't think a bad bullet is made for the 30-30.
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Joined: Mar 2012
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I've always liked flat point bullets in my 30/30s. I like their performance, and I've not felt the need to try to turn it into a longer range round.
I use Sierra 150 or 170's, and I stopped looking for a 30/30 powder when I tried W-748. It works well for me.
Other powders I've used with good results are H 4895, H 335, and RE 15.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Can you get Win 748 or REL#15 in Australia? Those would work well if you can get them.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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I can get REL15, CFE223 and 4895 which is made here and sold locally as ADI2206H. Obviously the local brew is cheaper, and supply is more reliable than the others. I hate it when you get a good load developed, then can't get the powder for a while. I've loaded up to 33 grains of Varget so far with good results and no signs of pressure. Plus I have plenty of it. RE15 and CFE223 are in a store about 3 hours drive away, and are around $65 AU per pound. It ain't cheap here.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
Campfire Member
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I've worked up a load for the Winchester using Hornady brass, CCI LR Primers and 160gn Hornady FTX bullets. I've stuck with Varget, or as it's known here ADI 2208 and have worked up a load getting to 34gn with no signs of pressure. Next thing is to work out the trajectory. So far it's dead on at 100m, but having been used to scopes for so long I had to re calibrate myself a bit for the ghost ring. I'm not intending for this rifle to be a long range shooter, so 100 to 150m will do. I'll hook it up to a Chrony and get some velocity figures soon as I can.
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I've used W748 forever but I plan to give Varget a try when I next load for my 30-30's. Your post came at a good time for me.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Varget is a darned good powder for the .30-30. But, have you read Hodgdon's data for its use? They show 32.4 gr./160 bullet as Max.
How are you reading your pressure signs? By the time you reach traditionally acceptable signs of over pressure, you have long since passed your limit. Stick to the book unless you're working with your own pressure gauge, unless you like skating on thin ice.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
Campfire Member
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Varget is a darned good powder for the .30-30. But, have you read Hodgdon's data for its use? They show 32.4 gr./160 bullet as Max.
How are you reading your pressure signs? By the time you reach traditionally acceptable signs of over pressure, you have long since passed your limit. Stick to the book unless you're working with your own pressure gauge, unless you like skating on thin ice. I was checking pressure signs at each load adjustment. Basically watching for the usual signs of hard extraction and primer shape. Unfortunately I don't have access to a pressure gauge. There were no signs indicating high pressure. However at 34 grains the accuracy at 100m was awful, something like a 6 inch spread! So I'm dropping back to 33grains where accuracy was much better. I did checks Hogdon's data and I also realised that the loads they operate on are conservative and based on safety with older Model 94's.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No, they're based on SAAMI limits for pressure. The limiting factor is the brass, it doesn't matter if it's a strong "modern" action or an old rifle, the weak link is the brass. Traditional means of gauging pressure by head expansion, primer flattening, etc. have been proven to take place way higher than what is deemed to be prudent. I'm not making this up- John Barsness explains it quite clearly in a couple of his recent books.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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I've just acquired a Winchester 94 Sporter, the one with then24 inch barrel and half hexagon. I've looked around and down here in Australia the best available powder for the cartridge is Varget. I'm starting fresh with Hornady brass, some CCI LR primers. So far I've worked up a load to 33 grains of Varget using the Hornady 160gn FTX bullet. There are no signs of pressure with this load, but I just thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone has experience using Varget in the 30/30. It may seem strange to some but in all my years of hunting and shooting this is the first lever gun I've ever owned. The plan is to get back to the basics of hunting. If you can ever get LeverEvoluition powder that one does really well in the 30-30. More velocity and less pressure than most, but surprisingly not in the 160 FTX.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243 |
RL-15 will easily push a 170gr Partition 2400 fps, it's a hell of a penetrating accurate load in my 26" M-94 Winchester, 200 yard steel through the Lyman receiver peep is easier than falling off the porch at the conclusion of an all night poker game.  Good Luck!
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,069
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
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Surprised no one mentioned 3031.That has been a 30-30 standby for a lot of years
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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I can get Alliant powders here, but 3031 is seldom available. I'm unfortunately limited to powders that I ca get a reliable supply of. I look at the vast supply of different powders you blokes can access and drool a little bit.
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Joined: Mar 2015
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I hazard to guess how many deer my old Win 94 has killed with IMR3031 and a 160he bullet
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If 3031 is not avialable,you might look at Alliant Reloader 10x. It is very close, but a little bit faster than 3031 or maybe H335 which is a little bit slower than 3031 according to burn rate charts, but very close to 3031. Years ago when H335 was selling as a bulk reclaimed powder, I bought a bunch of it. Instruction was to use 3031 data and it worked great
Whereas Varget is even slower burning than 4895 which is slower the 3031
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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My load of 33grains of Varget with the 160gn Hornady bullet looks OK. I'm getting 3 shots in a little over an inch at 50 yards and 2 inches at 100yards. If that doesn't kill a deer we have a problem. No idea of the velocity though my Chrony is a Magneto Speed, and doesn't work well with a lever gun mag.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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H4895 was my choice until LVR came around.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Anecdotally, my go-to .30-30 load in every .30-30 I've owned for the last 35-40 years is 28.0 grains 3031 and a 190 grain soft cast flat nosed bullet. Kills like lightning and is consistently accurate. (Current .30-30's are a Savage 99G takedown and a Winchester M54 bolt gun. The Savage shoots them into 2" @ 100 with tang sight, the Winchester into sub-MOA @ 100 with Fecker 12x target scope.)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jun 2006
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I've had good results with several powders depending on the bullets in a Marlin 30-30. 3031 is one of my old standbys along with some others already mentioned. Couple years ago I discovered that BL-C(2) is very nice with 150 gr. Sierra RN's.. Burn rate is in the same general neighborhood as Win. 748 & CFE-223 and looks like a touch faster than Leverevolution. Although I haven't seen any BL-C(2) since I got that pound about 2 years ago.
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My Model 94 is in love with 170 grain Hornady IL, 29.5 grains 3031, and a CCI 200 primer.
Outstanding accuracy and 2125 fps from the 20" barrel. The 170 grain IL behaves nicely at that speed and has deep penetration for less-than-ideal angels.
It's quite satisfying to center-shoot the chest, watch it "Rodeo Kick", and give a short death run. Usually 20 to 40 yards.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"Less-than-ideal angels"? Would that make them devils?
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Dem Debils died...  I wondered about the spelling, spell check says OK to both. 50/50 and I get it wrong, but then again my luck is I could walk out in a shower of whores and I'd get hit by a homo....
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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...or a tranny.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Outfitter
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It sure wouldn't be J-Lo and Shakira.....
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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We should both be so lucky! Pic of the 190 grainer I love so much for .30-30 work: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/K6DbHUK.jpg)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Outfitter
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That's nice!
At the moderate .30-30 velocities, it should really penetrate. The rifle will think it's a .303 Savage.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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It sure wouldn't be J-Lo and Shakira..... A man's got to know his limitations.
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Alright........I'll figure which one will do and give up on the other......
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Joined: Dec 2018
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OP
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Alright........I'll figure which one will do and give up on the other...... It's good the be selective, safer too.
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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We should both be so lucky! Pic of the 190 grainer I love so much for .30-30 work: I like the looks of this one.
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,371
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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For a deer load, I would go with top end loads of LVR. It has done very well for me in any lever caliber that I can load with it.
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For a deer load, I would go with top end loads of LVR. It has done very well for me in any lever caliber that I can load with it. ^^^^^^^^ This!
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Joined: Sep 2015
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My favorite load in my Henry All Weather and Marlin 336A is 36grains of LVR and a 170 grain Speer Hot Core. In my Henry it cloverleafs for me at 100 yards. In the marlin I get about 1 1/2” groups. I could make that load better buts it’s nice having one load for 2 rifles.
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