Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs First Hunting Dog

So my Girlfriends parents are giving us a Silver Lab and I’m new to training a dog. My good friend just ordered me the book “Water Dog”. It focuses more on Labs. I will mainly be taking her for Pheasants. Any tips and tricks would be great. I feel like I’m having a child. Wish me luck haha. Thank you in advance!


Kyle

I have had a few labs, great dogs. Be very careful with gun training, some dogs just don't like the gun. Go very slow and easy.

Basic obedience, basic obedience, basic obedience......it’s the bedrock of everything else. 10-15 minute training sessions starting out, pups usually can’t hold attention much longer. If it seems too hard, simplify and try again later. Always end on a successful note. Above all, keep it fun for both you and the dog.....read their body language, the experience is all in what you make it, but the reward can be great! Good luck!

The gun training is something I worry about. If it becomes gun shy that would really suck.

If you’re worried about gun shyness, get a cheap toy cap pistol. Use it at a distance when the pup is playing, eating, drinking, doing fun things in general. Use it at random times until the dog ignores it. Then get closer. Eventually move to blanks and finally the real thing. Always pay attention to the dog, they will tell you what you need to know. Also, have your girlfriend help by giving treats when shooting early on. Creates a reward response to gun fire that can be carried over to training.

First command sit/stay is really helpful when they are off a lead.

Never had a shotgun noise problem with Larry Brittany, Mr. Sensitive. I'd take him to the trap range on club night. We'd play and have snacks starting a fur piece away. Next week a little closer. Before long we were behind the scorer's bench socializing. (Of course Larry set the pace of advancement.)

Never got him used to rifle/pistol fire. To us a boom is a boom but not to Mr. Sensitive. Had him with me on a quick trip to the rifle range to check zero and thought nothing of it. Ever see an oversize Britt try to crawl under an Explorer front seat? Funny but I felt a little bad about that.

The biggest problem I had with Larry was that fabulous nose would lock on a scent, often deer, and selective hearing would kick in. He would become oblivious to whistle commands. Larry couldn't help it, if ever there was a dog that wanted to please. He'd turn into zombi-dog. Made me unhappy which Mr. Sensitive would pick up on and neither of us would be happy.

Eventually I figured out the solution, the evil shock collar. Think of it as a communication device. The one I got was completely adjustable at the transmitter. It was turned up just enough to break the trance, on me just a not unpleasant tingle. Dog must already know what you want of him, the collar is just to get his attention focused on you.

Don't think "Shock" is cruel. Larry never feared his occasional little tingle. The collar had a vibrate option, sounds less cruel, right? So I tried it once. Larry went into a panic with that thing buzzing on his neck. I did feel bad about that.

I’m going to stay away from the treats with the dog. The way my buddy put it. I’m not gonna take a cookie jar in the woods with me haha. And he’s done amazing with his dogs. As far as the collar goes I don’t plan on spending more than $300 for one. I don’t consider that abuse especially when it can end up saving the dogs life.

I don't mind some treat training along the way. They eventually will do anything for you minus the treats. They work for example quite well when doing initial exposure to loud noises and eventually shotguns. I find starter pistols to be quite loud and prefer a shotgun.

The one area that I would strongly recommend is learning how to force fetch your dog. If you aren't comfortable doing it, then work with someone who knows how. Its uncomfortable for the dog, but it results in a fool proof retriever that will not be distracted. Looking back, its my biggest regret that all my previous dogs weren't taken through it. My new pup will for sure go through it around 6-8 months of age when he is ready.

The rest is pretty easy, just do a lot of bird exposure.

And the Dog is how old? Out of a strong hunting bloodline?

5 weeks. We pick her up at the beginning of January.

Ok, save yourself time and start out right. Find yourself a retriever club and learn hands on from people who know the game. They also will be able to quickly read a young Dogs natural talents.

Read the book as you learn. Some Dogs need force fetch training, most Dogs that are from good retrieving lines and are being used as hunting Dogs and not competing don’t. Unless they show a tendency to refuse.

The club guys will know the rules on basic training, and how to avoid gun shyness. And they will give a young Dog something you can’t get here or from a book, and that would be live Bird contacts.

Good luck with the pup!

Have had nothing but English Springers and English Cockers from strong hunting lines. Five different Dogs, and not once have any of them refused to bring a Bird to hand they got their mouth on. And it was no small number. Perhaps it’s those specific breeds.

Seen one Springer that was force fetched. He fetches fine, but it is obvious he doesn’t trust the hands that did the the work.

Addition: We are fortunate our Dogs don’t insist we be force trained to never miss. Even if they happen to refuse on 1 Bird out of a hundred, so what, it’s a day hunting, not the National Retriever Championship.

Duffy, the best of the bunch retrieved a thousand at minimum, perhaps more. Not perhaps, definitely. Never a refusal, except at the end. At which time a stick didn’t meet his personal standards. Took awhile for him to teach me the rule.

.

Please do not buy a "silver lab"

Labrador retrievers come in three colors... SILVER is NOT one of those recognized by the AKC. It IS a marketing ploy to separate people from their money who know no better.

If there is a "silver" lab, something is amiss in the genetic purity of the line. Not saying that is will not be a great dog, just that is will not be a completely pure strain.

Well, let’s look at reality. First, only one half of my question was answered. The proven blood part was omitted. For why, I can only guess. Silver Labs as mentioned later may or may not have a strong hunting drive. If the Dog doesn’t have it, silver or purple is pretty much a waste of time for both Dog and owner.

Second, we have an admitted novice when it comes to training a Bird Dog. Where does or should he start? His Bud, says no treats. You say treats are OK. You say you wouldn’t hunt with a Dog that wouldn’t retrieve to hand. I say all mine did and do, without being force trained. Now back to the fact we have someone who knows dreck about training. Then let’s throw in how and how not to train re gun shyness.

Some expect perfection from their Dog, but lack the same in themselves. Which always gives me pause. I’m not, and thus I’m willing to cut mine some slack when it comes to always being perfect.

So he is already getting mixed signals. Thus my suggestion he gets hands on help from people who are there to actually place some hands on.

Finally we all don’t own the best field and retrieving Dogs.
I had one, that I would put up against any. He had maniacal drive, combined with a great nose. Retrieved around 1500-2000 Doves, around 300 Ruffed Grouse and flushed who knows how many more. Throw in some Pheasants and he was the complete package. I’d put him up against the best of the best. And place money on it.

Now, I’ve seen a few others that were great. Hunted over another’s Springer this fall that may be one of them. Bud had a setter, that I would place money on in the Grouse woods. Lacey was so good it was scary to watch her pin a Bird.

The rest of mine fall far short from being ranked as a best. Like human athletes all don’t deserve to be ranked with the elite examples. To think anything else is a fools game.
Entered quickly on the lphone. Please excuse the errors.

A few comments.

First, congratulations on your pup it will be a great companion regardless of anything else.

Second, Water Dog is geared more toward a non-slip retriever such as used for waterfowl rather than upland game like waterfowl. A better choice would be Game Dog. Both are rather dated books utilizing theories and practices popular a few decades ago. That is not to say it is obsolete but there are some tools and thoughts that are more practical for this age.

I consult books for training spaniels when working with flushing dogs. Mine are older but they work for me. I look at them to understand concepts and then adapt them to my tools and techniques. I prefer pointing dogs but these books get me a workable dog. I have books on flushing and retrieving dogs on hand as some of the concepts transfer, especially when asking a dog to perform outside their norms.

Third, joining a training club is an extremely good idea and one I can't second heartily enough. Just make sure it is for the type of hunting you wish to do. Just as with training books, some gear towards waterfowling rather than the uplands. Find one that matches your needs and desires.

As for force retrieving, it is something I do with all my dogs. It is partly to ensure retrieving to hand but most importantly it helps establish better/faster obedience in the dog. Done correctly, the dog will show no shyness towards hands -if it does a mistake has been made by the trainer. Surprisingly, it often lessens or even corrects instances of hard mouth in a dog. It is not a guarantee but it works pretty often though some dogs need a refresher now and then.

I also expect perfection out of my dogs, no different than I do with those I have coached or those who have coached me. To do otherwise is to not push the instructed to better themselves. If a coach did not push me to be perfect, then I would consider my money and time to have been wasted. The same for my dogs, I have high expectations for them which keeps them at their peak much of the time. Like me, there are some downturns but the expectations keep me and my dogs from backsliding. Pushing one to "Do your best," generally gets one further in the long run than settling for "That's OK."

I can find value and room for acknowledgement in all but the last paragraph. However, since you have some Setters, then force training is almost a must. They seldom are good at it on their own. Top of the line FBES and FBEC seldom require it, except at the top end trials. Yet at the Nationals all fail except one. However, that is not even usually true, since the judging has an element of being subjective and the judges are not always perfect. And sometimes they are prejudiced or not above favoritism. Hup to flush. The trials require it, but many if not most die hard hunters will disagree with the requirement. Which school demonstrates perfect? Perfect then becomes the opinion of who is the judge.

None said settling for OK is the end goal. Acceptance of where one or their Dog is right now, is the key to moving forward. Pushing oneself to "do your best" has its benefits and rewards. However, your best will never be perfection, in that there will always be something reveled that can be improved upon. Thus to "expect perfection" is to expect the unattainable. Which is a game none can win.

Perfection is a hard mistress, high maintenance and her beauty soon fades.

I always hold an unloaded gun above the puppies as they eat and just snap it. They get used to that after a month, then I use a 22 and hold it pointed away for a month, then I use one of my doubles with a shotgun hull with only a primer and point it away for several weeks.

When we start all going for walks I take the 22 and shoot it pointed away. They soon associate those pops with pleasure and fun. They see the gun and get excited. It's worked for 200-300 pups without fail.

I assure everyone that I won’t be taking this dog to some competition. As for buying pure bloodline, it’s a silver lab it was gifted to us by her parents. The dogs parents apparently have superb bloodline traits. I’m not a snob so I guess it’s lighter color won’t bother me like it does a “purest”. I really just wanted to get peoples take on how they trained their dogs which I appreciate all the info that’s been shared. As far as a retriever club goes, it sounds interesting but if it’s something that cost much money I don’t think I’ll be interested at this time. I know that this will be a learning experience for all 3 of us. Can’t wait!

You are missing the line. Bloodlines have nothing to do with any being a purist or a snob. It is about the Dogs ability to smell and it’s hunting drive. They all are not created equal and some are born to it. How many great athletes are offspring of athletic parents? Proven hunting lines tend to throw hunters. They are born with it, and it is something the best trainer can’t give them.

Best of luck.

Train it to be under control but still happy and have fun together. Better a happy hunting friend than a sad automaton, IMO. Retrieving can be fun play that pays off in the field or blind.

I know from a lifetime of good and mediocre dogs that a happy dog is more fun. If training to a razor edge is someone's thing, well, that's their thing. We once did that with dozens and dozens of dogs back in the day and did it without e-collars, just check ropes. As a kid I had to help with the training. I wasn't even allowed to play with the dogs in the big back yard.

Anymore, mine get some basics to keep them safe and are allowed to be dogs. I started training at a very early age.

MY GOD!!!

Such abuse...

I thought the same!

Budweiser! Ugh!

John

We just took “Oakley” on her first bird hunt this past weekend. Pictures to follow.