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I've been putting 30K+ every year on my 2009 F150 5.4.

About 12K of those miles every year is pulling a 12 utility trailer or an enclosed 10' trailer. So, maybe 1/3 of my miles.

As I think about looking for a new truck, should I be looking for something with higher torque, better puller, whether that be a diesel or ecoboost or should I not be thinking that way?

That 5.4 pulls good but you know when you are hooked up to a trailer. Traveled to ND this past year with a buddy with a power stroke and an enclosed trailer and when I drove, I would forget that thing was back there. Maybe that's the way I need to go?

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There are no free rides, but I take comfort in knowing I have more power than I need (F350 4x4 crew cab diesel).


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You don't mention what the trailers weigh. That makes a lot more difference than length.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
You don't mention what the trailers weigh. That makes a lot more difference than length.


Sorry, meant to put that in.

4-5K lbs.

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I wouldn’t want the added initial cost, maintenance, and fuel costs of a diesel for towing something that size. If you feel comfortable with the braking and handling of your current half ton then an Ecoboost might be a good fit. They are a powerhouse and pull more like a diesel due to making power low in the rpm band. Fuel mileage takes a hit towing with them, but I’d guess it’s not going to be worse than your 5.4.
If you get the feeling the trailer is walking you around or braking leaves something to be desired it may be time to look at a gas 3/4 ton. Ford’s 6.2 and GM’s 6.0 are both proven long lasting engines with more power and better trannys than your current rig. Mileage unloaded will probably be comparable to what you have but they’ll feel like a racehorse in comparison.

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Will you be driving the truck every day? What’s an average days driving look like?

Anything diesel from ‘07 on has a particulate filter and everything with a particulate filter makes for a cruddy short-tripper.


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Lots of highway miles but not a daily driver.

Most of that towing is highway speeds 65-75.

The 5.4 handles what I do now, so maybe I should stick with a 1/2 ton.

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Stick with a 1/2 ton.


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Originally Posted by TimberRunner
Lots of highway miles but not a daily driver.

Most of that towing is highway speeds 65-75.

The 5.4 handles what I do now, so maybe I should stick with a 1/2 ton.


That's the story for my diesel. Highway drives to go hunting/shooting, pulling a boat @ highway speeds in the summer, pulling a 14' snowmobile/ATV trailer loaded w/icefishing stuff in the winter. Other than that, it sits. When I bought it, I was towing my boat (4K#) ~500Mi/weekend pretty much every weekend from mid-Apr until mid-Sept. I now have a spot I can leave my boat @ the lake so my towing is decreased by probably 80%.

The biggest thing with any DPF equipped diesel is to get it up to full operating temp and let it complete DPF regeneration cycles regularly. This is independent of which manufacturer you prefer, they all have DPF, the DPF needs to be run through regen cycles, and the motor has to be @ full temp for some time to do it. It can take 10min+ for the engine to get up to temp during the winter, idling will not bring it up to full temp, idling will get it "Luke-warm" @ best.

You're sure not going to save any $$ by going with a diesel, but, they are very enjoyable to drive with a load. For the small things you're towing a diesel certainly wouldn't be required. It's not required for the relatively small things I tow either, but I like it.


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The biggest thing with any DPF equipped diesel is to get it up to full operating temp and let it complete DPF regeneration cycles regularly. This is independent of which manufacturer you prefer, they all have DPF, the DPF needs to be run through regen cycles, and the motor has to be @ full temp for some time to do it. It can take 10min+ for the engine to get up to temp during the winter, idling will not bring it up to full temp, idling will get it "Luke-warm" @ best.
I bought my '08 Dodge diesel with 60k miles on it. I didn't know it at the time but it had been DPF deleted. The dealer didn't know it either. It has a chip under the dash with a flashing light. The dealer thought it was some kind of performance chip but I got the numbers off of it and went online to find out what it was. Turned out to be a gizmo that resets the time to the next regen to max every time I start it.
A friend has an '07 identical to mine that has not been deleted. When we're up hunting on the back roads for more than a few days, he has to go find a highway to run it up and get it hot for a regen or it really starts bogging down. It's a real PIA.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Quote
The biggest thing with any DPF equipped diesel is to get it up to full operating temp and let it complete DPF regeneration cycles regularly. This is independent of which manufacturer you prefer, they all have DPF, the DPF needs to be run through regen cycles, and the motor has to be @ full temp for some time to do it. It can take 10min+ for the engine to get up to temp during the winter, idling will not bring it up to full temp, idling will get it "Luke-warm" @ best.
I bought my '08 Dodge diesel with 60k miles on it. I didn't know it at the time but it had been DPF deleted. The dealer didn't know it either. It has a chip under the dash with a flashing light. The dealer thought it was some kind of performance chip but I got the numbers off of it and went online to find out what it was. Turned out to be a gizmo that resets the time to the next regen to max every time I start it.
A friend has an '07 identical to mine that has not been deleted. When we're up hunting on the back roads for more than a few days, he has to go find a highway to run it up and get it hot for a regen or it really starts bogging down. It's a real PIA.


I could "drive around town" for an hr in the winter and never come up to full temp.

I wish there was an "off-road" mode that would allow one to bypass the DPF @ low speed.


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Doesn't sound like there's any compelling reason to jump from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton unless you're just wanting one. You can get into a gasser 3/4 ton for about the same price as a 1/2 ton.

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Go 3/4 ton gasser. It’s as much or more about the frame, suspension, brakes, etc as it is the motor. There is a world of difference between a 1/2 and 3/4 ton. Gas is better than diesel for non-towing duties.

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4-5K trailer? Another vote for a half ton. Had a 16' double axle flatbed (removable racks) for the past 14 years and thru three different GM half ton 4x4s.

10K max load for that trailer and it doesn't matter if there's a tractor on it, or 2.5 cords of fire wood. All three 5.3L trucks have snatched it along with no issues. Drops the highway mileage from 20-22 down to about 12-14, depending on the load. Plenty of go for coming back from the mountains with a jag of wood on it. Also have an 8' steel sided box trailer that I can haul a Farmall Cub on, or a cord of wood. Don't even know it's back there.

Fetched one helluva mess of oak butts home this fall, on a buddy's 14' dump trailer. Closer to three cords, than what I can tote on my flatbed. Nary a miss. Damn near everyone I know that has been driving diesels for some time, is happy with the newer ones.


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Thanks for info everyone.

My 5.4 averages 8.5 mpg when I'm towing 75 mph. I didn't buy it for fuel economy, but I'm not pulling that much either. Luckily, I've got a 35 gallon tank.

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Sounds about like my '10 5.4. I don't tow heavy but get about 12 pulling 3k lb....and only about 14.5 empty

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If you're considering a new truck just for the mileage, remember that you can buy a LOT of gas for $10,000.

Do any of the newer diesels have the DPF any more? Aren't they all using DEF now?


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
If you're considering a new truck just for the mileage, remember that you can buy a LOT of gas for $10,000.

Do any of the newer diesels have the DPF any more? Aren't they all using DEF now?


They all still use a DPF, even the ones that have the SCR (DEF) system.

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Everyone I know with a diesel truck plans to go to a gas engine next time if they haven't already done so. With the initial cost ( about $9000 with Ford) along with higher fuel and maintenance costs the are much harder to justify economically any more. Especially for recreational use. If someone tows/hauls heavy on a regular basis and they use their truck to make a living then maybe. But for guys who pull a travel trailer of boat a few times a year you'll never break even on costs. Our local school system has bought new school buses with gas engines the last 3 years. Diesel just got too expensive.

And then there is payload. The diesel engines are so heavy that they eat into trucks payloads. I have a friend who recently traded his F250 diesel for a 1/2 ton. His F250 was rated to TOW 15,000 lbs, but due to the weight of the diesel engine he only had about 2000 lbs payload. He was over loaded with a 10K trailer and 3 adults in the cab.

You don't list trailer weights, but I'm of the opinion that a 1/2 ton, properly equipped should be OK up to about 7000-8000 lbs. Not all 1/2 tons will be OK with that so "properly equipped" is the key. There are some 1/2 tons rated to tow over 10K, some as much as 13K, but I'd feel much better with a 3/4 ton over about 8K.

I don't plan to ever tow over 5 or 6K so I'm OK with my F150 which is rated for 7700 lbs. I wouldn't pull over 6 K with my truck due to payload ratings though. But I've considered an F250 with the 6.2 gas engine for my next truck. The price just isn't that much more. And for guys wanting a more basic truck I could probably find an F250 gas engine truck cheaper than a fancy F150.


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They're coming out with stronger and stronger gas engines. It wasn't that long ago when the 350 cid was the norm for towing with a few larger engines available. Now there are all kinds of strong towing gas engines on the market. Admittedly, "camp" trailers (mobile luxury suites) are getting bigger and heavier, too.


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I have a 2019 Chevy Duramax 2500HD. BS about payload. It's pay load is about same as the sister gasser. BS about fuel savings.Those big gassers require premium fuel. Around here diesel is $2.76, Premium gas is over $3.00. You can get buy with a 3:55 or 3:73 rear end with the diesel, but the big gassers have to have a 4:10 or so to achieve their to pulling power and that gobbles more gas per mile.
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Indeed a 1/2 T will pull a 6K trailer without any problems as long as the trailer has adequate brakes, not pulling 10,00 ft passes, or frequent travel is above 5000 feet elevation.

I only have about 5800 miles on my truck, but figured the hunting trips I took in the last year and I am running about 30% towing. Most of that is with the slide in camper, gear, 3 horse slant trailer, 2 mules, hay, feed, water and tack, Going down the road I am at about 16,500pounds. I get 18-21 mpg empty running about 68,12 mpg fully loaded.It pulls these Colorado high mountain passes with ease. Hauling gravel with a 14ft dump trailer,scales read 19,300 pounds. Truck, trailer and gravel.

Previous I had a 98 Dodge fro20 years with the Cummins and it is about the same, a little better mileage fully loaded but it had the 3::55 in it.

Buying a truck is a little like building a shop or barn.You always do it bigger than what you think you need. I haven't had 1/2 T truck since my 58 Ford with the old flat head engine and 4 sp.


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I haven't had 1/2 T truck since my 58 Ford with the old flat head engine and 4 sp.

Um, there was never a '58 Ford pickup with a flathead engine in it, that I can recall? Either had a puny OHV straight six, or the 272 V8, unless I am mistaken here. One of my farmer uncles had a '56 and I know that had an OHV V8 in it. Can remember him hauling 100lb sacks of cow feed on that poor old thing, when the rear bumper barely cleared the road. Was only about an eight mile trip from the Agway in town (GLF in the early days) to his farm, but that Ford never let him down.

Around these parts, diesel is going for about $3.39 to $3.49 a gallon. 87 octane gas, maybe $2.69 to $2.75 currently. 89 octane and up, close and over $3. I'm old enough to remember when diesel was way cheaper than regular gas.

I've pulled 8K lb loads with two different GM 1500 4x4 pickups with 3:42 gears. One a four speed auto, the current one a six speed auto, all with 5.3L V8s, trailering package and tow haul mode. No sweat at all. Difference is, don't do it all that often now.

Diesel pickups have declined in popularity around here, as I see far fewer of them than just a few years ago. Most on the roads are older ones driven by youngsters that still think it makes them cool. See a kid every day in a RAM crew dually. Have yet to see him pull anything, or have a damn thing in the bed, but he flogs hell outta that thing every day.

But, whatever trips one's trigger, eh?


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Dube PA. My memory gets foggy at times. .It could have been that V8. Could be I am remembering my old 49 Plymouth or 53 Chevy. I sold the 58 Ford and replaced it with a 70 Dodge 3/4 T V8 (383?). All that was about 50 years ago.I do remember pulling a 4 horse trailer with it loaded with 4 horse and no brake controller, over Glorietta Pass in NM.

If you are in PA (where I was born) it is a lot different pulling these 10,000 ft passes in Colorado


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I ain't making numbers up. Its about a 1/3 of my miles, not particulary heavy, but noticebable.

I'd never buy a truck based on mileage. I'm buying a truck, not a daily driver, but I do still think about pulling a trailer with my buddes powerstoke that didn't have a single indication it was pulling a trailer. That sensation lingers in my mind. I ain't saying its right, but its still there.

I'm not in any hurry, but could pay for a truck today. Maybe I'm over thinking this.

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I think for what you describe you might be well served by a half ton Ford with the 3.5 Ecoboost. My Grandad and a good friend of mine both have them and pull campers and assorted stock and utility trailers. They will flat pull, plenty of power. Both get 8-12 mpg towing depending on wind and speeds. Grandad will probably never buy another truck, he’s 87 and starting to slow down, been nothing but satisfied with the truck since he drove it off the lot.

Buddy loves the ride, power, and mileage of his but told me recently he’s probably going to go 3/4 ton gas for his next one. His only complaint is that in some situations he feels like the truck is lacking in the stability department. Stiffer springs, more rigid frame, E rated tires, and larger brakes on the 3/4 should help with that. His camper is a 28’ bumper pull, so likely heavier and definitely more wind resistance than your box trailer.

Another good friend has a Raptor with the Ecoboost and 10 speed. We pulled a 20’ enclosed race car trailer loaded heavy to Colorado last year elk hunting with it. I was amazed at the way it pulled and handled in Tow mode. He is a big time farmer with a 1 ton Ford diesel of every generation going back to the first year Powerstroke and ending with a 2015 6.7 Powerstroke in his barn. He claims he’d give them all up for gas if Ford would make a V8 Ecoboost and put it in 1 ton cab and chassis.

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Read up on octane and elevation...detonation is a bigger problem at low elevations. Most cars that require 87 only require it at maybe 2000' or less. Those of us at higher elevations can run 85 with no detonation. The thinner air compensates for the octane.


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"If you are in PA (where I was born) it is a lot different pulling these 10,000 ft passes in Colorado".

So I hear. Maybe 30 years ago a PA aunt and uncle were headed for the coast with a Suburban diesel pulling a small RV. Got to the Rockies and it about croaked on 'em. Had to head into a GM dealer for some adjustments before continuing on west. Then if IIRC, do a reset on the other side? They came back via the southwest, uncle ditched that vehicle not long after they got home.

Those were GM's initial diesels in the mid 80s that were pretty crappy. Have friends that've been to CO and other mountain states hunting, with late model diesel 4x4s. Don't remember them grumbling much about altitude issues, like my uncle had back then?


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Was that the Olds 350 engine in the late 70's, early 80's? My partner had one and it was a terrible engine. He got rid of it in short order. It wouldn't pull anything and was always in the shop. GM made a big mistake with that one.
A lot of people think it was a converted 350 gas engine but it was a totally different design. It just happened to have some of the same specs as the gasser.


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The half ton trucks will do the job, no doubt.

But, there is no substitute for the torque of a diesel, and the heavy duty frame, brakes and suspension of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, for stability and stopping ability, especially in hilly terrain. My 2014 Ram 2500 is my daily, and I use it to tow cars, side by sides, and occasionally my 28ft camper. I have towed about 36k miles in 140k miles total, so I'm definitely not a full time tower. But what most here are missing, is the ease of pulling and stopping with a diesel. The fuel mileage while towing is just a bonus, but coming through Pigeon Forge in Tennessee with a 6000lb SUV on a 2000lb trailer, using that exhaust brake going down without worrying about burning up the brakes, going up without beating the truck to death, that's what makes having a diesel worthwhile.

Yes, you might save some coin on the overall ownership experience, but I want the right tool for the right job.

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Mid eighties they were probably 6.2s. Way more reliable units than the 5.7 GM diesels that debuted in the 70s but very underpowered by today’s standards. The reason they were no good at altitude was that they were naturally aspirated. The turbocharger is the reason modern diesel engines perform better at high altitudes than other engines. It compresses and forces air into the combustion chambers, making more oxygen available to help the fuel burn.

Used to be lots of 6.2s around here, they usually got decent mileage and back then diesel was half the price of gas or less. I’ve driven several and none were anything but slugs, even in Blazers and half ton pickups. Of course I think they were factory rated at around 120 horsepower.

My uncle had a 3/4 ton 4x4 GMC with a 6.2. Going to Colorado elk hunting pulling a trailer nearly eradicated mosquitoes from a tristate area. Talk about smoke! After that gutless wonder ate it’s 7th or 8th starter in 2 years he traded it in for an identical new one but with a 454. I think it was on it’s 4th automatic transmission in 2 years when it set itself on fire and burned down his garage. Pickups sure weren’t what they are now back in the day.

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Originally Posted by TimberRunner
I ain't making numbers up. Its about a 1/3 of my miles, not particulary heavy, but noticebable.

I'd never buy a truck based on mileage. I'm buying a truck, not a daily driver, but I do still think about pulling a trailer with my buddes powerstoke that didn't have a single indication it was pulling a trailer. That sensation lingers in my mind. I ain't saying its right, but its still there.

I'm not in any hurry, but could pay for a truck today. Maybe I'm over thinking this.



Sometimes you do overthink it. Buy what you want and not what will just do the job.


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Before buying a truck for the mileage, consider how much fuel you can buy with the $10k you'd save on a truck that gets 2 mpg less.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Before buying a truck for the mileage, consider how much fuel you can buy with the $10k you'd save on a truck that gets 2 mpg less.


I had an old Ford Dually gasser .It was the last year Ford put carburetors on trucks , but I forget the year. Had it about ten years, probably around 1988 or so.. 454, 4 spreed, 4:10 rear end. Gong up mountain passes, fully loaded with 20 ft goosneck, I got 3mpg if it made it up the mountain without vapor locking. On an over all trip of 450 miles, two mountain passes I averaged 6mpg. Going up, I was mostly in 1st gear going 12mph. Best I got empty was 8mpg. I finally fixed the vapor locking with an ice bucket like racers use and an extra fuel pump, inline, mounted to the frame. After it left me stranded going into the tunnel on Loveland pass and I had the whole rig towed to Idaho Springs to replace the hydraulic line to the clutch .I sold it and bought the 98 Dodge Cummins, 5 speed.3:55 rear end. It averaged 14mpg over an all trip or 450 miles, two passes and 22 mpg empty.and usually topped the pass in 4th gear

Since then I know fuel injected engines get a lot better mileage, but I'd never buy another gasser for any type of towing.This V8 Duramax I have now gets 13 mpg fully loaded and 18-20 empty and handles up t 23,000 pounds GCVR


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I remember vapor lock very well. I've had my share of it. I once had a Jeep Wagoneer with a 401 that was terrible for it. When you shut the engine off, you could actually hear the gas boiling in the carb. I fixed it with an electric fuel pump mounted well away from the engine so it was pushing cold fuel from the tank all the time.
That thing was a powerhouse but it didn't get much better mileage than your truck. It was designed by a committee of idiots.


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If you are towing anything, of any significant size and weight, diesel power is never a wrong choice. I have owned three diesel trucks, the current one being a GMC Sierra 2500 HD, and 4 gas trucks. Towed a lot of different things, from ATV trailers to loaded horse trailers and my current travel trailer, with most of them, and the ease of towing and safety factor with a 2500 diesel simply can't be equalled with lesser trucks and gas engines. In addition, the current crop of diesels, with exhaust braking systems, make downhill towing with heavy loads a breeze. If you are going to tow on flat land, maybe you are okay with gas trucks. If you are towing over high mountain passes, like we have here in Colorado, it's a whole different game.


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"Was that the Olds 350 engine in the late 70's, early 80's?"

Remember those nasty things well. Knew two people that had them in GM pickups and swapped in a 5.7 gasser to replace the half arsed diesels, once they'd croaked. And a neighbor with a Olds Vista Cruiser, that swapped the OEM diesel for an Olds 350 gasser. Those 350 Olds gas V8s were decent engines. A cousin ran two of them over the years, in Street Stock dirt track races. IRRC, they put out more torque than the 5.7 Chevy engines?

Think my uncle's Suburban that balked in the Rockies, was the first generation 6.2? Neighbor pulled about a 28' tag along RV for years with a 3/4 ton Chevy, 5.7 engine. Got a new RAM maybe a year or two into the Cummins era and loved that diesel for pulling that camper.


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There is nothing wrong with having two trucks. My daily work truck is 1/2 ton gas rig. It can tow light trailers without any issues. It is also taking all mileage as a tax deduction. My tow rig is a 07 5.9 dodge diesel with under 70K on it. I keep Commercial Insurance on it for heavy towing but do not write it off.


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TimberRunner, when you're towing on the highway how fast do you tow, and what sort of terrain? In the Central and Western US one can often run 70's and 80's for hundreds of miles with the cruise set and never touch it. Any of the modern turbo diesel's are going to click along effortlessly almost never shifting out of the highest gear even with a moderate load. That's where the diesel is so much "fun" to drive. It's 180Mi to the lake I like to fish. With my last 1/2tn 5.4L Ford ('05) I knew the 1/2 dozen places my truck was going to shift out of OD, and if I had any headwind at all, I'd lock out OD right away. Same trip with my previous '06 Ford F250 6.0L PSD or current '11 6.7L PSD the trucks would/will run in 5th/6th gear and never shift short of when I have to slow down to switch highways.

Get into parts of the US with denser populations and/or lower speed limits where you're on/off the throttle, lots of shifting, and one might notice less difference between gas vs. diesel.


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Never tow medium to heavy loads with OD locked in. Surefire way to torch the auto tranny

Last edited by saddlesore; 01/05/20.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Never tow medium to heavy loads with OD locked in. Surefire way to torch the auto tranny


You lock out 5th and 6th When you tow in your new Duramax?


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It’s not overdrive that will kill a transmission, it’s long hard pulls with an unlocked torque converter

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I'm pulling mostly on flat landscapes. Once a year (4K miles or so) to high plateau (Wyoming or Montana).

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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Never tow medium to heavy loads with OD locked in. Surefire way to torch the auto tranny


You lock out 5th and 6th When you tow in your new Duramax?


When in mountainous country. Use the tow mode and decide when you want it to shift. grades. Lock out 5th and 6th and slow down and let it pull. Really steep pulls , lock out 4th at times. It all depends how much I am hauling and pulling. I run about 16,000 pounds in my hunting rig.Truck camper, trailer

Originally Posted by ajmorell
It’s not overdrive that will kill a transmission, it’s long hard pulls with an unlocked torque converter


And when it is unlocked , the 6th or 5th gear is essentially overdrive.There is no switch anymore where you select OD. If you let the computer constantly select the highest gear the truck will pull in, it will continuously shift.That will shorten the life of the transmission .Probably in flat land there is not a problem. Where I drive there is. Foothills and two 10,000 ft passes to get where I hunt. Even around home at 7600 feet I have serious hills

Last edited by saddlesore; 01/07/20.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore


Originally Posted by ajmorell
It’s not overdrive that will kill a transmission, it’s long hard pulls with an unlocked torque converter


And when it is unlocked , the 6th or 5th gear is essentially overdrive.


5th and 6th gear are always OD, whether or not the TQ converter is locked. 6 speed Allison transmission gear ratios are as follows:

1st. 3.094:1
2nd 1.809:1
3rd 1.406:1
4th 1.000:1
5th .711:1
6th .614:1

OD isn't some "system" outside of the normal transmission, it's just any gear that's higher than 1:1.

"Tow/Haul" mode doesn't "lock-out" OD. Tow/Haul adjusts shift points to typically hold more RPM both shifting up and down. Tow/Haul will generally result in a "stiffer" or "harder" shift as well by reducing the amount of slip allowed. Tow/Haul doesn't lock out any specific gear and really has nothing to do with OD, OD is simply a gear/gear-ratio.

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How can one tell if the TC is locked?


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" Tow/Haul doesn't lock out any specific gear " Wrong.My Owners Manual for my 19 Duramax /Allison specifically states that when in tow mode, with shift selector in L, not D, you will have access to the gear you select and all gears below that. So if you select 4th, then 5th and 6th are locked out. If you select 3rd, then 4th, 5th, and 6th are locked out and you only get 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. .It will not shift up into those 4th, 5th or 6th. I'd call that locked out.

Maybe it is in the transmission and not torque converter, as I am not a big gear head, but of you are pulling a pretty good load, have the transmission in Drive in hilly country or say from Kansas city to Denver where you are constantly climbing, you can sure fry the transmission before too long. Don' t know about present but previously Fords were notorious for that. You sure don't want to use Cruise Control either.( That is in the Manual too)

I drove almost 1500 miles this past hunting season with a heavy load. All hills/mountains were in tow mode,only flat Interstate was not. About 1/3 of that. I'm pretty sure I know how it works .

Last edited by saddlesore; 01/07/20.

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That’s not tow/haul, that’s manual mode. Tow/haul is the button recessed into the end of the shifter lever. Tap it and a trailer icon lights up on the dash. That’s tow/haul mode. You are describing manual mode, which is different.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
I'm pretty sure I know how it works .


If you say so

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We have an '18 Toyota Highlander with the v6. There's nothing in the manual about what gear to use while towing. It does have what they call the PWR mode. Near as I can tell, it adds power to the engine but has nothing to do with the tranny. I asked the local dealer what gear was recommended while towing and he said to just use the PWR mode. It also has an alternate shift mode that limits how high of a gear you can be in. It also doesn't mention a torque converter. I'm still dubious. I can't find anything on the web about it.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
How can one tell if the TC is locked?


In your Ford you can press the "+" on the +/- button on the gear lever and display 1-6 above your gear designator on the instrument cluster. This corresponds to gears 1-6 in the transmission. When NOT engaging Tow/Haul, You'll see a 200-300RPM drop between 35-45MPH holding stead speed without actually shifting from 4th to 5th. You'll feel it "unlock" about the same speed @ about 35-40 when decelerating when you feel the engine braking diminish and RPM will drop to idle almost like you stepped on the clutch or put it in N.

When all 6 gears are displayed on your cluster, the transmission will always try to get to the highest gear it can hold. You can press the "-" and 6 won't be illuminated, and is locked out/unavailable, you can press "-" again and lock out 5th, etc, etc, etc. This is different than running in Manual mode where you choose the gear and it'll hold that gear until you shift.

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
We have an '18 Toyota Highlander with the v6. There's nothing in the manual about what gear to use while towing. It does have what they call the PWR mode. Near as I can tell, it adds power to the engine but has nothing to do with the tranny. I asked the local dealer what gear was recommended while towing and he said to just use the PWR mode. It also has an alternate shift mode that limits how high of a gear you can be in. It also doesn't mention a torque converter. I'm still dubious. I can't find anything on the web about it.


PWR mode should hold each gear longer (higher RPM shifts) and downshifts @ higher RPM as well. It keeps you in the upper end of the RPM range nearer peak HP/TQ. I suppose w/variable valve timing there could be algorithms written/engaged to skew towards power rather than MPG as well.


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Originally Posted by K1500
That’s not tow/haul, that’s manual mode. Tow/haul is the button recessed into the end of the shifter lever. Tap it and a trailer icon lights up on the dash. That’s tow/haul mode. You are describing manual mode, which is different.


You are correct. Putting it into Tow/haul while in D with the "button" brings in a shifting stabilization mode such as Horse 1 explained. However the manual says if the transmission is shifting too much, drop it down into a lower gear. I don't know if using +/- switch on the shift lever does that while in D, the manual doesn't say, but I do know if you switch to manual, you can. You still have to use the Tow/Haul button. Seems to me, if it is shifting too much,you are going to overheat the transmission as I posted earlier, if you don't use the manual mode. Personally after driving 5/6 speed manuals and diesels going up hills an coming down with heavy loads, I would prefer selecting what gear I am in even though this Duramax has quite a bit more pulling power than my old 98 Dodge. It does work exactly how I described. I double checked the manual to be sure. I will leave it at that and leave others to decide what they will do.

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
We have an '18 Toyota Highlander with the v6. Near as I can tell, it adds power to the engine but has nothing to do with the tranny.


I had an Acura Legend that was similar. It had a Sport Mode Don't know it it was transmission or engine ,but you selcted it with a button near the shift lever


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Originally Posted by ironbender
How can one tell if the TC is locked?

If your engine speed tracks your road speed, your TC is locked.

Practically speaking, if while cruising you press the gas and engine speed increases without a corresponding increase in vehicle speed, TC is unlocked. TC locked feels and acts like a manual trans truck with the clutch pedal out.

GM 4l80E transmissions will drive you bonkers, trying to keep that one locked up under load or going downhill. Most newer autos can be duped into staying locked at most speeds by employing tow/haul and/or judicious use of the manual up/down shift button, with the idea being to keep the engine rpms up and avoiding lugging.

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