Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 22-250 and Elk

Jeff......

I think you said what most of us "think"... and you "covered" the subject well.

Any experienced elk hunter would agree with your synopsis of something I've always believed and suggested which is, "Use ENOUGH rifle for the intended game!"


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Sometimes, I get lucky I guess!

Yeah... tales of woe abound at elk camp. One kid I met one time out in the field had a 6-inch strip of lung in his pocket, that had snagged on a stump that the wounded elk he was trailing had lost. He had followed it for miles at that point, over 2 ridges into 2 drainages... it finally met up with some other elk and stopped bleeding and he couldn't track it anymore. Tough critters!

-jeff

I would say it takes stupidity and HUGE lack of respect for the trophy animal.

I killed my first several elk with a 25-35, my dad killed at least 50 with a 250 Savage, I have killed a couple with that same 250 Savage. My mom killed a rabid horse with a 22 rifle.

Elk rifles start at the 30-06 IMO, and I base that on experience. Any caliber will kill an elk or an elephant for that matter. What has that got to do with hunting? If you want to hunt with a inferior caliber then be prepared to pass up many easy shots and good bulls to prove your point, or figure on wounding a lot of animals.

Shooting elk at 170 yards with a 22-250 is just a stunt, and it could go either way, I wonder how many she has left wounded in the mountains of Montana...I have seen light bullets from varmint guns blow up on deer several times, so good shooting isn't the answer to all, its just one part of the equasion.

Uh oh. Here come the .270 guys. Duck for cover!

:-)

-jeff

The problem with elk hunting is, the shots tend to be either very close, like in the timber, or...they are far shots out in open sage, canyons etc. I would not want to be packing a small caliber gun to shoot at an elk 300 yards away right before dark. And that is a shot that I would take with my 338.

I don't think Phil did anyone any favors with his article involving the .223. It's the most popular caliber because it's CHEAP not because it's good.

I think it is ridiculous to hunt elk with a 22-250. Period. I personally know of several bad experiences with elk and 22-250s. My cousins have like two rifles- one is a 22-250 and they are forever loaning it out when someone shows up with a rifle that is not sighted in. Although my cousin has killed a couple of elk with this rifle- he has followed quite a few that were wounded by friends and guess what- the bullets never made it through the shoulder! If shot placement isn't perfect, you have a wounded elk. For those of you who haven't had the opportunity to shoot a few elk, I will tell you that they are as tough an animal as there is- period. Even Craig Boddington gives them that credit in comparison to African game.

Hunting elk with a 22-250 intentionally is akin to having a cop carry a .25 auto as his duty weapon. Will it kill someone? Absolutely, is it effective- not hardly.

When I first started deer hunting I used my dad's -06, as expected, it worked perfect. The first rifle I bought was a 22-250 (because my uncle used one) I killed a half dozen coues whitetail with it before I had my first bad experience. I made a very LUCKY 2nd shot and broke this deers back at 400 yds [running, no less] and when I finally hiked over, the deer was still alive and fighting mad. The first round had deflected off a shoulder bone and went straight down. I can't imagine using it on elk.

Ray used a 250 Savage on elk- so have I- it shoots a 100-120 grain bullet and is very reasonable in velocity, totally different from the 22-250.

I just don't get the whole using a really light rifle on elk thing. Even something like a 250 Savage... WHY?

I think things are different where some of you hunt elk, though. If you live or lived on a ranch with lots of them, and knew you'd get multiple chances, or even multiple elk, I guess it would tend to make a person more casual about the whole thing. In Oregon, guys go years and years between having a SHOT at an elk, so you want to make sure that when you get that chance you are properly armed. For me, a 30-06 with 180's on up = "properly armed for elk". I'd just be ill if I got a chance at a good bull and screwed it up because I was using a very light caliber.

-jeff

...everything goes wrong...

Well, that certainly covers a lot of scenerios. I would be so busy thinking of Bullcookie Scenerios that I would never have time to hunt! How about that fir tree that inserted itself between me and my target?

My quibble is with "everything". I like the words "likely", "foreseeable", or even "probable".

I think Atkinson pegged it when he wrote, "If you want to hunt with a inferior caliber then be prepared to pass up many easy shots and good bulls to prove your point, or figure on wounding a lot of animals." The devil is in the details. WHICH easy shots/angles can you make and which should you pass on? As the caliber get more marginal the shot selection gets more critical and more dependent on Lady Luck.

I must 'fess up. I have never hunted elk...

Having confessed my virgin status, I gotta tell you it would take an series of unfortunate events before I would consider using a 22-250 for elk. While many guys use them to vaporize PDs at 300 yards A.) I am not one of those guys and B.) I would not want to hump that rifle up the mountain and through the blowdowns.

Another thing that baffles me as an elk virgin...this discussion about almost Texas Heartshots, i.e., "any angle". Half the WT deer in Michigan are harvested during bow season. Bows cannot drive an arrow through a shoulder and make a mess of any path that goes aft of the diaphram. So bow hunters tend to be very, very selective of their shots and let many "shots" walk. Why are elk in the west different? Is it because it is a shorter season? Is it because the hunters either need to put protein in the freezer or they are some Eastern "dude" who has $10K invested and want some tangible return?

Speaking from my own limitations, I have grave reservations about my ability to visualize a path that will take a bullet through an animals rump and, some 48 inches downrange, hit a significant stretch of lung (say 10" of path) or the heart. If elk are anything like Michigan WT deer, they seldom give you a shot like the picture in the magazine. You might see part of the animal, but not enough to judge yaw, pitch and roll. And bullets do not always travel in a nice, straight line.

I am not flaming. I just don't understand.

Bottom line: I would be very comfortable with 30-30 or 6.5X55 or 270 (or more) as long as I was not using "varmit" bullets and was cool with passing on shots that did not have a clear view of the "boiler room" and/or were out of range.

It is easy for me to write with certainty since I have not had to contend with reality.

-Joe

I've never taken a Texas Heart Shot (THS) and hope I never do, but part of why it's effective, and they say it's very effective, is that the liver is a vital organ, one, and that the sheer, pathetic, overwhelming trauma of being shot up the a$$ with a high-powered rifle tends to make the shoot-ee give up and lay down, two. Imagine the punch in the gut THAT must be. It's not supposed to be pleasant for the shooter either, involving very sick animals in a lot of pain, and a very messy cleanup job afterwards possibly to include ruined tenderloins. But they go down.

All that said, if I can visualize a straight path to the vitals I would take the shot with my .338... possibly even to include the THS. Call it what you will, elk hunting is very hard work... VERY hard work... and for many of us a low-percentage affair bordering on insane obsession. When you finally get a shot at an animal it'd be a shame to have to pass it up for lack of gun, of all things.

-jeff

JoeMama -

While I would never choose a .22-250 for elk, I can see how they could easily be taken with one. A varmint bullet in the neck would moslt likely do the trick rather quickly, as would a TSX or Trophy Bonded behind the ear.

Not every hunter will take a THS as a first shot, but wound one and it may be the only second shot you get.

Like you, and I've been hunting elk since 1982, I would be very comfortable with a 30-30 or 6.5X55 or 270.

Coyote: No disrespect...but a varmint bullet in the neck is probably the worst place you could shoot an elk. Their necks are massive, and have a lot of muscle. Unless you got lucky and happened to hit them in the spine, you are going to wound it for sure. I was with a guy that shot a mulie in the neck with a 7 mag. It missed the arteries, and spine, and poked a mean hole all the way through in the meat. The deer made it about a mile before we found him and finished him off. He was still standing with his head down.

The 22-250 is a perfect coyote gun.

dogcatcher223 -

I understand your position but disagree as I've too often seen what a varmint bullet will do to the off side of a coyote. Its hard to imagine hitting the neck and not destroying something important, whether it was a CNS hit, arteries or the throat.

Like I said, though, I would never try it.

A Varmint bullet in the neck would probably make a mess and might kill the bull if you hit the right spot. My uncle killed several this way with 55 grain soft point factory ammo [Remington and Winchester] This is typical a heavy for caliber bullet in the 22 by today's standards. I don't know if it took more follow-up shots or not- I do know that he was unable to use any of the capes as they were recked.

The problem with varmint bullets in an elk's neck isn't whether it will kill it but rather where the elk will be when it dies. If you blow out the esophagus, it will probably die 2 weeks later in some dense hell-hole. If you blow out the trachea, chances are that it will be able to breath and run, for a while anyway, and will die a day or so later of infection or exhaustion. If you hit the spine, it may or may not penetrate, depending on how fragile the bullet is. If it doesn't penetrate, there's still a good chance that you made the kill but the death might well come from shock, bleeding, or infection several miles away.

The only sure thing here is a hit on the jugular. How many hunters can tell exactly where it is at any angle?

Dick

And that's sort of one half of the whole "use enough gun for elk" equation. #1, respect for the animal IE a clean kill... #2, elk tend to live in very rugged terrain and are very tough animals and putting them down ASAP can be the difference between recovery or not, or between thousands of vertical feet of huffing out quarters...

.243 is the minimum for elk in Oregon. I think 22-250 is insane bordering on criminal.

-jeff

I don't even like .243's for elk. I'll take a .30-30 instead.

Oh, I'm with you there! I don't even like .243 for deer!

-jeff

Jeff,
I hunted with the light calibers when I was very young and that was about all I could handle. My family were ranchers and true outdoorsmen and in those days most folks used 30-30s and thought a 300 Savage was a magnum. A few had Springfields and I remembering thinking when I got big I would own a 300 Savage or maybe a 30-06 Springfield army rifle. I almost had appoplexy when I saw my first M-70 in 300 H&H and the owner, a paying hunter, gave me one of those big cases. I took it to school and showed it to the whole classs and the teacher, all were impressed. A different time and place.

As to the "Texas heart shot", I don't know of a quicker killing shot if you use enough gun. other than brain or spine.. I don't know why anyone would hesitate to use it. It destroys much more vital organs than a broadside shot, and 95% or better of the time they pile up at the shot...I have not had any other opertunity in the last number of years where I hunt, so I use a 338 with 300 gr. Woodleighs or my 375 with 350 gr. Woodleighs. The black timber is thick, nasty and dark, they jump close and are going south fast, what would you suggest, that I just quit hunting them?

"I almost had appoplexy when I saw my first M-70 in 300 H&H and the owner, a paying hunter, gave me one of those big cases. I took it to school and showed it to the whole classs and the teacher, all were impressed."

that brought a smile!
remembering back a few years,
about 29 years ago I went on my first ELK HUNT IN WYOMING, we were at a drop off hunt and fairly deep into the greys river area, one of the guides that was showing us the basic area lay out, had just purchased a 7mm rem mag and was complaining about the recoil levels compared to the 270 win he had used for years. he was to pick us up in 5 days or when we signalled him by putting a blue tarp around a tree trunk he could see from a spot on a mountain road. we signalled him on the second day, we had an elk down, when he came to pick us up he commented on the small enterance and exit wounds, on the dressed carcass, then saw the internal damage/bloodshot area was not that bad even thought the bullet passed clear thru,
"looks like a bullet went in behind the last rib on the right rear and exited the left side neck and passed out with minimal expansion, how far did he run? what was the range?"

he dropped on the spot! and was shot at about 280-300 yards, was the answer,
"OH! what did you use?"
I flipped him a loaded 378 wby loaded with 300 grain round nose bullets seated to the max length that functioned in my mark V, I thought he would crap him self, I allowed him to keep the cartridge, he said his buddies would never believe it!