Does anyone know of a stock maker that has the old Rigby style stock patterns. I’m looking for the rounded pistol grip Prince of Wales type with the short forend. I’d prefer to get a semi inletted shaped stock that I could finish myself, any help appreciate. Attached a pic of what I’m looking for.
There is an old world craftsman located in Medford Oregon, his name is Reto Beuhler. I believe he was or is a subcontractor for Gibbs Co. Rigby patterns? I don't have a clue. But his number is 541 664 9109. He has a pretty good Austrian accent. Anyway he is the real deal gunmaker, emigrated here a few years back. I don't think he just drops his tools when the phone rings either.
Last edited by flintlocke; 01/14/20.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
There is an old world craftsman located in Medford Oregon, his name is Reto Beuhler. I believe he was or is a subcontractor for Gibbs Co. Rigby patterns? I don't have a clue. But his number is 541 664 9109. He has a pretty good Austrian accent. Anyway he is the real deal gunmaker, emigrated here a few years back. I don't think he just drops his tools when the phone rings either.
I checked his website. I’m sure I have the wrong profession to ever own his art, but he’s very talented.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
Until you talk to him, I don't think you should be intimidated by the quality of his work. My buddy had an Alex Henry .450 BPE that was dropped, and broke the exposed hammer. Reto welded the hammer and re-case hardened it...perfection...a 12,000 dollar rifle back in the game for 300 bucks. But, as Reto said, "Oh, I chuss luff verking on such a fine olt rifle."
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Until you talk to him, I don't think you should be intimidated by the quality of his work. My buddy had an Alex Henry .450 BPE that was dropped, and broke the exposed hammer. Reto welded the hammer and re-case hardened it...perfection...a 12,000 dollar rifle back in the game for 300 bucks. But, as Reto said, "Oh, I chuss luff verking on such a fine olt rifle."
Oh, besides being a world class treasure, he is a true gentleman.
Until you talk to him, I don't think you should be intimidated by the quality of his work. My buddy had an Alex Henry .450 BPE that was dropped, and broke the exposed hammer. Reto welded the hammer and re-case hardened it...perfection...a 12,000 dollar rifle back in the game for 300 bucks. But, as Reto said, "Oh, I chuss luff verking on such a fine olt rifle."
Thanks for the encouragement. I’ve got a good friend just north of Medford. It’d be a worthwhile stop to visit Reto if I’m in the area. The man is clearly very talented, and I can easily appreciate great craftsmanship.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
Retro is as good as they come and undoubtedly as good as any who ever worked at Rigby
Then I definitely need to meet him, even if I don’t end up a customer. I’d love to apprentice with him (and harness my OCD) if he was stationed somewhere besides southern Oregon! That’s assuming a lot, but a guy can dream.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
I’ve seen photos of his retro Oberndorfs. He is very talented.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
Might want to check with RJ Renner as well, his work is really nice.
I’ve seen his website and he does do a decent job of imitating the old school rifles. Only problem you need a factory stock to start with and then it’s bout 1000$ to shape a stock that is already inletted and fit to your rifle. Seems a bit high. And he can only do so much with the original shape. The real problem is I have handled and shot a Pre War Mauser with the trim British style. No way to put the rifle to your shoulder and not be looking right down the sights, handled like a fine shotgun. After that I can barley stand to pick up my other rifles. They fit like a high dollar crow bar and weigh about twice as much. Ignorance is bliss as they say I’d advise you stick with the crowbars unless your willing to pay some $$ for a real stock lol. Surely someone somewhere has a pattern to be copied. There are several duplicators that will copy a pattern for 200$. I know I am simplifying the process but I can’t see paying several thousand dollars to shape a stock when the blank cost 500-600 dollars and they use a machine to get it close. I’ve been quoted anywhere from 3500-6000 for a stock and you supply the wood? You can buy a whole used Rigby a real one for 10k and they will throw in a bolt barell and a trigger for free lol. The old Husqvarnas have a very close approximation of a Rigby and might be the best bet. Find a good piece of walnut and have a copy made and then go from there.
In my frugal but appreciative opinion there’s a “get what you pay for” return on your dollars spent. It’s then up to the guy spending his coins to decide just how much certain details matter. For a bone stock factory rifle I can gladly accept a certain level of fit, and then shop for above average wood grain. If buying a custom rifle the wood figure and color would be entirely up to me and again, on a cost/return scale, and sometimes less than exhibition grade can look more appropriate for the job. But if looking at a custom, regardless of style, and extra enhancements and embellishments, the rifle should have perfect inletting and fit. And perfect fit comes from hundreds of hours of hand work that I haven’t seen a duplicator match. A classic build with beautiful wood is very possible, but still looks like an upgrade from the same basic concession as a factory rifle. Only the handwork masters can build true works of art and their prices represent their man hours and talent. I VERY much appreciate their work, but have a safe full of “best I could find” factory rifles. I have the attention to detail to appreciate the airtight fitting and sharp edges. I just can’t scratch that itch right now.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
Another superbly talented builder just an hour and a half drive from LA is Lon Paul. In my opinion he is the most knowledgeable maker, and restorer of Rigby rifles. He built a 416 that I was carrying around the SCI convention one year and Paul Roberts stopped me and said he could tell me the exact year it was built just by its style. When I handed it to him I told him to read the name on the barrel first. Lon had duplicated everything Rigby except for putting his name on the barrel. Even Paul Roberts, who owned Rigby for years, said that without Lon's name on it, he would swear it was a 1920's Rigby.
At this time in the US we have a lot of serious and knowledgeable talent in the gunmaking trade who know and understand the difference between Rigby, H&H, Wesley Richards or Jeffery styles and can duplicate them, or build their own rendition
I agree a fully hand made stock takes a great deal of time and expertise, and that is not free. What I’m talking about is the “stock experts” that use a duplicator to cookie cutter style shape and semi inlet a blank and then do the final inlet by hand and finish the stock but charge ridiculous amount of money. Case in point the 3 “stock makers” I talked to all use a duplicator and their own “special” pattern that only they have and costs$$. They do do a good job of inletting and sanding/finishing but not $6000.00 worth. And the funny thing is that “special” one of a kind pattern is the same for all three! We’ve all seen the pattern it’s the new thing I guess, only problem is it’s not new it was new in say 1999 when Dakota arms was using it on there rifles lol, but it ain’t new and it ain’t original. Someone apparently several someone’s has put a Dakota stock on a duplicator and made a pattern and ran with it. I had a Dakota stock looks exactly like some of these High dollar one of a kind stocks. Non of these “experts” not the (3 grand or 6 grand) could or would attempt a Rigby style stock.The picture is a Dakota for sale( sold mine years ago) notice how familiar the pattern looks?
Ok I get it now........and agree. That style is likely what I would use if I could only have one custom (though I dearly love the Rigby). The open wrist classic pattern used by JOC. But it shouldn’t cost $6K if a duplicator is used.
Keep us posted if you find someone who will tackle your problem for a reasonable sum.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
It would be interesting to know what some of the posters here do for a living. How much $/hr, week or whatever. What kind of benefits come with the job. I'd guess some outsider could grumble about being over paid, under worked and easily replaceable for 10 cents on the dollar.
"Common knowledge" when it comes to custom rifles seems to be you're getting screwed if your not picking up someone's sloppy seconds.
I'm just kind of glad there are those willing to plunk down the $ necessary to build something right the first time. Without them there would be no sloppy seconds for the masses.
I'd say the pricing in the US market is pretty competitive considering there's a huge talent pool here with 300 million+ citizens and a considerable # of them don't have to rely on custom gunmaking for a living. I'm sure it's a great hobby for some very talented smiths. The competition pushes the level of quality higher and that's a good thing.
The more wisdom you gain about custom rifles the more you realize that a properly commissioned custom created rifle is so much more than just a list of options. 10-20 thousandths here and there make the difference between a nice rifle and something truly exceptional.
This was done with a duplicator. However, I don't offer a copy of it unless you want a good job of inletting and sanding/finishing to go with it.
Your rifles are beautiful James. I made the assumption that you carved them out from scratch because they look so darned tight (that 10-20 thousandths you mentioned).
Since you clearly know a lot better than many of us, how many hours do you have into a stock like that one? How many hours does a duplicator shave off, and does it create other problems to work around, or is it straight up time savings?
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
The more wisdom you gain about custom rifles the more you realize that a properly commissioned custom created rifle is so much more than just a list of options. 10-20 thousandths here and there make the difference between a nice rifle and something truly exceptional.
Truth
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Thanks I do carve them from a block of wood. But do use my own patterns I made from scratch and glass each one then I duplicate on a machine I made from scratch. I would encourage all those who want a great rifle for "less" to look into the summer NRA classes that are offered around the country. There are several one or two week classes that are a great opportunity to have some professional instruction along with access to machines. Many of the students come back year after year just to enjoy the camaraderie of classmates they get to know.
I'm sure I've got minimum of 80-100 hours in each stock by the time it gets packed and shipped. Keep in mind that the time like I spent last week repairing my surface grinder oiling system doesn't get billed to a customer. I don't think that my duplicator saves me that much time on a custom stock. It does however allow me to get the most out of a blank when it comes to color and layout. When I build patterns or a stock from a blank I can move material wholesale quite efficiently. My 18" Grob bandsaw can make short work and I'm not afraid to cut right up to where I need to.
My latest duplicator uses zeros and ones to machine a stock from start to finish. Back in the mid 90's I built all the patterns for Dakota Arms using their new Milltronics CNC. I would start with a blank, CNC machine the inletting and fit the metalwork. Then I'd shape it from the blank and put it back in the machine and using a Rennishaw Probe, digitize it and after crunching the #s have a file to run automatically. My "new" CNC is a bigger better faster version of what I ran for years back at Dakota. My only problem is I make one of this and then one of that so it's not worth taking the time to program and digitize. However...... I do have a spec project for the Mini Howa where I prototyped new custom floormetal and staggered magazine like the pic above as well as 3pos safety, custom bolt handle, trigger shoe, and fully CNC stock. The first CNC inlet took me about 10 min to fully inlet pretty much gap free. I'm planning on offering the stock machining service for this Mini Howa for around $150 on customers wood. This would allow those looking to spend some of their own time instead of $ on a semi custom project in the style I build.
Not ready to ship yet as the metal parts are just prototyped. Nobody is paying me for this R&D so it sits while paying clients get their projects worked on. Stay tuned when the mini parts & stock are ready full production, I'll be starting another stock for the CNC. Based on what I see selling, it will probably be a Rem700.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I know that there’s always behind the scenes, off the clock, “unbillable” hours, in addition to equipment and utility costs.........and probably a bunch of things I can’t even guess since I’m not in your shoes.
I understand that perfection equals hours, and hours equal dollars. Factoring in the skills and experience that only come from working your way up to the professional level, and I have no doubts where the bill comes from.
I’d never heard about the summer classes, but they sound like an incredible opportunity, and I’m going to check into the program. I’ll be watching for the mini Mauser stocks too. There’s a void in my life that requires a pretty little .222 Rem sporter, and a baby Mauser would be a great platform.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
The NRA summer classes are all over the country. I don't have a list. Depending on where you live and the shooting opportunities you have local, you might want to pick a class somewhere cross country. I worked at Trinidad State for the summer program after my third year gunsmithing school was completed. Several of the summer students said they traveled cross country to Trinidad cause the prairie dog &coyote shooting can be pretty good as well as having the NRA Whittington Center just South over the border from the school. I'm sure there are several other benefits at some of the other schools that host the summer program as well.
The Interarms Mini Mausers are cool as well, just more work and less available than the new Mini Howa. I've got a 222Rem to build in the shop now on the Mini MarkX.
It would be interesting to know what some of the posters here do for a living. How much $/hr, week or whatever. What kind of benefits come with the job. I'd guess some outsider could grumble about being over paid, under worked and easily replaceable for 10 cents on the dollar.
"Common knowledge" when it comes to custom rifles seems to be you're getting screwed if your not picking up someone's sloppy seconds.
I'm just kind of glad there are those willing to plunk down the $ necessary to build something right the first time. Without them there would be no sloppy seconds for the masses.
I'd say the pricing in the US market is pretty competitive considering there's a huge talent pool here with 300 million+ citizens and a considerable # of them don't have to rely on custom gunmaking for a living. I'm sure it's a great hobby for some very talented smiths. The competition pushes the level of quality higher and that's a good thing.
The more wisdom you gain about custom rifles the more you realize that a properly commissioned custom created rifle is so much more than just a list of options. 10-20 thousandths here and there make the difference between a nice rifle and something truly exceptional.
This was done with a duplicator. However, I don't offer a copy of it unless you want a good job of inletting and sanding/finishing to go with it.
Originally Posted by JRGunmaker
It would be interesting to know what some of the posters here do for a living. How much $/hr, week or whatever. What kind of benefits come with the job. I'd guess some outsider could grumble about being over paid, under worked and easily replaceable for 10 cents on the dollar.
"Common knowledge" when it comes to custom rifles seems to be you're getting screwed if your not picking up someone's sloppy seconds.
I'm just kind of glad there are those willing to plunk down the $ necessary to build something right the first time. Without them there would be no sloppy seconds for the masses.
I'd say the pricing in the US market is pretty competitive considering there's a huge talent pool here with 300 million+ citizens and a considerable # of them don't have to rely on custom gunmaking for a living. I'm sure it's a great hobby for some very talented smiths. The competition pushes the level of quality higher and that's a good thing.
The more wisdom you gain about custom rifles the more you realize that a properly commissioned custom created rifle is so much more than just a list of options. 10-20 thousandths here and there make the difference between a nice rifle and something truly exceptional.
This was done with a duplicator. However, I don't offer a copy of it unless you want a good job of inletting and sanding/finishing to go with it.
That is a fine stock I really liked it when I had one like it on my Dakota in 1999. I’m more into the PreWar models now.
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