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Oversize Bullets ? #14306375 11/23/19
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yukon254 Offline OP
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How many thousands of an inch larger than bore diameter can hardcast bullets be ? I generally aim for about .002 over, but my last batch is almost .005 over. Im casting for a new rife, BLR in 450 marlin. Havent slugged the bore yet but expect it to be .458. In my 45/70s I always shot .460 , but this latest batch is .463 on average. Are these to big?? They are powder coated. Mold is a Lyman 457163

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14306406 11/23/19
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You mean bigger than the lands right, not the bore ?

Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: Spotshooter] #14306478 11/23/19
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yukon254 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Spotshooter
You mean bigger than the lands right, not the bore ?


Yes

Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14306687 11/23/19
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Originally Posted by yukon254
How many thousands of an inch larger than bore diameter can hardcast bullets be ? I generally aim for about .002 over, but my last batch is almost .005 over. Im casting for a new rife, BLR in 450 marlin. Havent slugged the bore yet but expect it to be .458. In my 45/70s I always shot .460 , but this latest batch is .463 on average. Are these to big?? They are powder coated. Mold is a Lyman 457163


For starters - size your bullets to what you want them to be, rather than just depending on mold diameter; it's best to have them all start at the same diameter rather than varying a bit in as-cast size. Sizing irons out irregularities in the powder coating as well.

As for how big they can be - that depends on your chamber. In some, .005" over is fine. In a lot of guns though, that will be too big for a loaded cartridge to fit in the chamber. Forcing it in anyway will drive up pressures and can be the difference between a safe load and dangerous pressure. A simplified way to determine that is check your fired cases from that gun; if your cast bullets won't fit in the fired cases easily by hand, they are too big.

Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14309530 11/24/19
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The best possible scenario is to size as close to the throat that will chamber/function and not really consider groove diameter of the barrel.

Yondering is correct; the bullet should still drop in a fired case. The case needs to expand to release the bullet.
That shouldn't necessarily be confused with fitting the throat or snug chambering.

So long as they fall into a fired case, make them fit the throat.



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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14310585 11/25/19
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You can, for about $25, get a die and bottom plug for any diameter you need. Lee will make you one if not a std. diameter.It will screw into your standard single stage press and the bottom plug will slip into where your shell holder goes.

https://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/bullet-sizing-kit/

You also might need a new expander plug for you dies.

Last edited by saddlesore; 11/25/19.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: HawkI] #14310630 11/25/19
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Originally Posted by HawkI
The best possible scenario is to size as close to the throat that will chamber/function and not really consider groove diameter of the barrel.

Yondering is correct; the bullet should still drop in a fired case. The case needs to expand to release the bullet.
That shouldn't necessarily be confused with fitting the throat or snug chambering.

So long as they fall into a fired case, make them fit the throat.



Absolutely. Sizing larger than groove diameter is a "by guess and by golly" approach. Measure the throat diameter and size .0005"-.001" under that. Measuring throat diameter is as easy as measuring bore/groove diameter.

When you say "hard cast" what exactly do you mean? Are you measuring hardness with a tester? For a big old .45 rifle bullet used in .45-70 and such, a bullet doesn't have to be hard. In fact, better accuracy and performance can likely be had with soft bullets in the 9-12 bhn range- without leading or resorting to powder coating either.


Last edited by gnoahhh; 11/25/19.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14359727 12/10/19
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if you can chamber a loaded round you should be good to go.

if you can't, it's too big. smile


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14440652 01/06/20
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yukon254: You must be new to the rodeo? Slug the bore and then load three rounds each(with same load), bore size--- + 1---+2 and then +3 over. Total of 12 rounds. Fire them and see what you get. blammer: a case could be loaded with a bullet 20/1000" under and it would chamber but I don' think it would be "GOOD TO GO"

Last edited by FatAlbert; 01/06/20.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: FatAlbert] #14440956 01/06/20
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Originally Posted by FatAlbert
yukon254: You must be new to the rodeo? Slug the bore and then load three rounds each(with same load), bore size--- + 1---+2 and then +3 over. Total of 12 rounds. Fire them and see what you get. blammer: a case could be loaded with a bullet 20/1000" under and it would chamber but I don' think it would be "GOOD TO GO"


Okaaaay....


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Not much you can't fix with $700 and a .30-06." Joe Ryba
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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14461564 01/12/20
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Again, size to fit the throat.

I cast quite a bit, but I would quit tomorrow if sizing .001 an inch at a time made or broke the process for every gun, for every bullet.

Make a seal from case mouth to muzzle and go from there.



Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: HawkI] #14509106 01/26/20
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Originally Posted by HawkI
Again, size to fit the throat.


Bingo! I quit measuring my bore a long time ago and just size them to slip into a once fired case neck.

Thanks, Dinny


Medics bury their mistakes..
Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: Dinny] #14529355 02/01/20
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Originally Posted by Dinny
Originally Posted by HawkI
Again, size to fit the throat.


Bingo! I quit measuring my bore a long time ago and just size them to slip into a once fired case neck.

Thanks, Dinny


I tried that today with some 38-55.The lands slug at .380. A .379 bullet will not slip in to case after firing They chamber easy after loading and shoot well at 50 yards at least. 4 inside of 2 inches and two fliers that were me. These were 250 gr cast with 13.5 gr of 2400. Max is 18 grs so I am far below max. I had some.375 loads that will slip in to the case after firing. 5 rounds keyholed at 50 yards and only a couple caught on both sides of 2' x 2' piece of card board.A lot of these old 38-55 have a .380 bore.

I have some.381's on order.

I am open to suggestions.

Last edited by saddlesore; 02/01/20.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14529725 02/01/20
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Alloy and hardness?



Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: HawkI] #14530195 02/02/20
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Originally Posted by HawkI
Alloy and hardness?


Don't have the alloy .They are Missouri Bullets, Powder coated. Brinell 18

The.375 diameter are Western Bullet.Lyman 375296
The.376 are Hunters Supply bullet


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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14530210 02/02/20
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Back to basics. Determine throat diameter and size to .001 under or less. Ignore groove diameter. That alloy is way harder than you need for those velocities too.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Not much you can't fix with $700 and a .30-06." Joe Ryba
Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: gnoahhh] #14531539 02/02/20
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Back to basics. Determine throat diameter and size to .001 under or less. Ignore groove diameter. That alloy is way harder than you need for those velocities too.


I don't know if you do much shopping for 38-55 bullets, but there isn't a whole lot of them on the market. I don't cast. Newer 38-55 have .376 diameter. which says the .375, or .376 should work in a newer barrel but older ,38-55 barrels vary on the.379- .380 diameter and most likely their throats vary too.

I am trying to come up with a match for this 1906 Winchester without spending $600 or so for a reline or new barrel.

These bullets I have are marked Ballard.I guess there may be different specs when the Ballards came out, but all the brass is the same

Last edited by saddlesore; 02/02/20.

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Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: yukon254] #14532309 02/02/20
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Again, back to basics can be done without being a caster. First you gotta determine throat diameter, even if you adopt the approach by which a bullet just barely fits in a fired case (which will approximate it but still leave you at the mercy of the brass thickness). Armed with that knowledge you can buy bullets larger than that and acquire a simple Lee bullet sizing die (screws into your loading press) and size them to your required diameter. I have no way of knowing if by chance said diameter die exists in their lineup. Your job to play detective there. If the exact diameter die doesn't exist get the one closest and have it reamed/honed to size, or do it yourself- the woods are full of guys who do that themselves. Bottom line is it's easy and cheap.

I can't help but think also those hard-ish bullets you're using can be contributing to your issues. The harder a bullet is the less elasticity it has and the more it resists " bumping up" to seal the bore right from the git-go courtesy of the powder's "explosion". I realize now you're totally at the mercy of commercial casters- wish I had known that- some detective work on your part may turn up a source for something softer. Perhaps even a local caster can accommodate you if you provide a mould and some lead. (A whole lot cheaper than spending $600 on barrel work.)

Soft versus hard is an area that is often counter intuitive to non-veteran cast bullet guys. Often a hard bullet will give more leading and less accuracy than a soft one will. But people insist on hard because that doesn't make sense to them and the commercial caster guys are in the game to make money so that's what they provide.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Not much you can't fix with $700 and a .30-06." Joe Ryba
Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: HawkI] #14532320 02/02/20
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Originally Posted by HawkI


Make a seal from case mouth to muzzle and go from there.




That sums it up succinctly.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 02/02/20.

"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Not much you can't fix with $700 and a .30-06." Joe Ryba
Re: Oversize Bullets ? [Re: gnoahhh] #14532702 02/02/20
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Again, back to basics can be done without being a caster. First you gotta determine throat diameter, even if you adopt the approach by which a bullet just barely fits in a fired case (which will approximate it but still leave you at the mercy of the brass thickness). Armed with that knowledge you can buy bullets larger than that and acquire a simple Lee bullet sizing die (screws into your loading press) and size them to your required diameter. I have no way of knowing if by chance said diameter die exists in their lineup. Your job to play detective there. If the exact diameter die doesn't exist get the one closest and have it reamed/honed to size, or do it yourself- the woods are full of guys who do that themselves. Bottom line is it's easy and cheap.

I can't help but think also those hard-ish bullets you're using can be contributing to your issues. The harder a bullet is the less elasticity it has and the more it resists " bumping up" to seal the bore right from the git-go courtesy of the powder's "explosion". I realize now you're totally at the mercy of commercial casters- wish I had known that- some detective work on your part may turn up a source for something softer. Perhaps even a local caster can accommodate you if you provide a mould and some lead. (A whole lot cheaper than spending $600 on barrel work.)

Soft versus hard is an area that is often counter intuitive to non-veteran cast bullet guys. Often a hard bullet will give more leading and less accuracy than a soft one will. But people insist on hard because that doesn't make sense to them and the commercial caster guys are in the game to make money so that's what they provide.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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