Home Forums Reloading 16 Gauge Society Frame size used for 16 gauge guns (question)....

This is my first post on the 24 hour campfire forum. I just realized that this is probably in the wrong section, sorry.

I have to admit that I've never owned a 16 gauge, but feel that it is a shame that they aren't more popular.

A magazine article from some years back testing a reintroduced 16 gauge mentioned that 16 gauge guns were often or normally
made using either a 12 gauge or 20 gauge receiver. The author said that they tended to be overly heavy if based on 12 gauge receivers (so offered little or no advantage over buying a 12 ga). He said guns based on 20 gauge receivers were preferable.

So my question is this; what guns (newly manufactured or out of production) use 12 gauge receivers, which use 20 gauge, and which
ones use receivers that are 16 gauge only (if any)?

Off the top of my head, I'm curious about Stevens 311's, Winchester 21's and 12's, Remington autos and pumps (and equivalent Brownings/Savage autos); or anything else that you care to mention. :-)

Many thanks to anyone that takes the time to answer!

Jeff Marshall
Rural Indiana

Ansley Fox 16 gauge shotguns were made on the same size frame as the 20's.

Fox guns came with 4 different barrel weights (1-4) and standard lengths were 26, 28, and 30 inches with 32 inches on special order.

A 3 or 4 weight barrel 16 gauge with 26 or 28 inch barrels will weight between 5 lbs. 14 ounces and 6 lbs 6 ounces or thereabouts.

I have a 16 gauge Fox XE with 26 inch barrels with 3 weight barrels that weighs in at 5 lbs., 14.3 ounces. It is a wand in the hands and a great upland gun.

Remington used 12 ga frames for all their 16 ga guns as far as I know. Stevens too. Don't look at used Remingtons for a good 16 ga. Winchester Model 12 16 ga were built to scale, and are nice to handle. I had one. I don't know about Winchester doubles. Ithaca made a nicely balanced 16 ga in the old Flues model, but it was not a strong design. I sold mine after using it a few years. The Browning Auto 5 Sweet 16 is famous for its proportions and handling qualities, and is well named. I have a very good modern 16 ga. Browning Citori White lightning built on a 20 ga frame. It is my every day bird gun. Interchangeable chokes and proofed for steel shot. But as a collector I mostly seek out the European guns in 16 ga. I have a Merkel O/U, and a very old Italian SxS hammer "guild gun" that are both beautifully proportioned. The Germans also favoured the 16 ga in combination guns. I have a couple that are nicely built to perfect scale on 16 ga frames - a Krieghoff Drilling and a Heym BBF. Many old 16 ga guns were chambered for 2.5" shells, which you can still buy, but in my opinion the gun has to be nice enough to make sourcing short shells a worthwhile effort.

In addition to the above:

CSMC will make you a Model 21 16 on the 20gauge frame.

The Model 12 16 gauge was on the 20 frame.

The Spanish AyA, Grulla, Ugaratechea, etc

Parker Reproduction by Winchester's 16 gauge was on the 20 frame.

Original Parker 0 Frame 16 gauges are built on a “20 Ga.” frame.

Look at some pre-war German doubles in 16 and you won't have to worry about it. They were on a proper 16 bore receiver from the beginning.

The Ithaca model 37 uses receivers scaled for the 16 gauge, and are great pump guns.

Is that true of the new Ohio made model 37?
I owned one for a short time, it was very heavy

Winchesters Model 12"s are built on a separate 16 gauge frame and are a joy to carry and shoot! I own various O/U's and SXS's and the Model 12 points and balances along with the best. However no snob appeal!

Sorry, this is incorrect. Winchester made three frames for the Model 12: the 20 gauge, the 12 gauge and the 12 gauge 3” magnum. The 16 (and 12 for that matter) came after the 20, and was built on the same frame, as was the 28 gauge.

You are indeed correct that it is a joy to carry and shoot, as it has the lightest weight for the punch of them all. Mine is a plain field gun with 28” modified choke barrel and weighs in at 6 1/2#.

The earlier mdl12 16 ga was on a 20 ga receiver. but it wouldent shoot the 2 3/4 shells without a modification.. later it was made on a slightly bigger receiver.. I had both mdls for a long time. the one on the 20 ga frame was my favorit.. I just sold it a couple years ago.. it had the modifications done by a GS in texas to shoot the 2 3/4 shells..I sold it to someone here on24hr campfire.

Both of my 870's are the same size as the 20 gauge pumps.

The 12 gauge that i have is heavier.

The 16 gauge receivers were not made larger. To accommodate 2 3/4” shells, the ejection port was enlarged and the radius of the corners of the port were changed. Same receiver as before.

The above is correct.

I've never seen one of the Ohio guns. I've also never seen a model 37 that I'd call "very heavy". Was it a Deerslayer or ??

Ohio Ithaca no longer lists the 16gauge. However, when they made it, it was overweight. Something like 7.5pounds. I handled one and immediately put it back. The originals were much lighter.


Found this from 16gauge.com....

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17689

AYA #2 16 ga are on a 16 ga frame, slightly larger action than a 20 ga and much smaller than a 12 ga. We have a couple, as well as a 20 ga. Sold the 12 ga, as I like the 16 ga much better.

As per 870s....the old ones were small frame (family had 2), and I believe a run of new were on the 12 ga, although i never had one and don't want one! Don't know years or serial #s.

I've owned a few M12 16 ga and they indeed were all on the common frame shared by the 20 ga and 28 ga....and a whole lot smaller than the 12 ga frame. The early 2-9/16" gun would function perfectly with black Remington "2-3/4" cases, but not with Winchester or Federal factory ammo as once the cartridge was fired it would not clear the short ejection port. Obviously the Remington cases were shorter. Nice guns!

I think...………...…. I THINK...………..the Model 21 's in 16 gauge are built on the 12 gauge frame.

I don't have my 12 gauge 21 at home at the moment. But the 16 with 28" barrels weighs in at just under 6 3/4 pounds. Still feels wonderful in the hands. But, seemingly, a good bit heavy, I'm thinking, were it on a smaller frame.

When the 12 gauge comes back home, I can give better info, I reckon

Hubert I bought a Win Model 12 16 Guage from someone on the fire, has the old style Poly adjustable choke. Nice shotgun have noticed some brands of 16 gauge shells will hang up on ejection.

It is often repeated that Remington’s 11-48 had scaled frames. Not sure, because I don’t own one. Many times you will also see written that the 870 used the 11-48’s 16 gauge frame. I’d like to know.

I have a 16 gauge Model 12. It does have the small frame and is sweet to carry, points well, but leaves me sore from heavy loads.