Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats M70 Bottom Metal--PTG vs Williams

I have several M70 rifles...some of them have standard 2pc bottom metal and a couple of them have Williams 1pc bottom metal.

Does anyone here know if the PTG aluminum 1pc unit has the same footprint as the Williams bottom metal?

One of my rifles is about to go on a diet and I am looking at where I can shave a few ounces.* It is sitting in a light weight fiberglass stock so I can modify, fill, sand if needed to make it work...but I'd rather not have to if possible.



*Disclaimer--I know someone is going to come along and say that the M70 is a bad place to start for a light weight rig...I know this...I'm still going to follow through on this endeavor though. The looney in me requires it.

I am not sure the footprint between the two is the same but I think it is close.

I've used the PT&G on post 64's and have 4 pre 64 M70's with the williams. I have inletted both and it wasn't too bad of project.
Just a FYI I think williams is out of production as he is moving his shop.

Same "foot print" but the quality of the PTG bottom metal is a crapshoot. After the stainless one I bought, I won't buy another.

I have heard about the PTG crapshoot before...can you elaborate on the issues you encountered with their bottom metal?

The main problem was the spring loaded button that holds the floorplate shut. They had drilled the hole for it in the wrong place and then re-drilled (or milled) it larger to correct it. The oversized hole allowed the button to sort of wallow around and if you pushed the button sideways it would release the floorplate. The button was also blued on a stainless bottom metal.

I turned an offset stainless bushing and pressed it into their oversize hole, replaced the blue button with a factory stainless piece and replaced the weak spring they had provided with a factory spring.

The hinge pin for the floorplate was undersized and allowed the plate to wobble around when open and swing back and forth when closed. That was an easy fix, I just drilled it out and installed a larger pin.

I don't remember for sure, but seems like I also had to drill out the action screw holes so that the screws didn't bind as they were tightened.

All in all, way more work than should be required for what should have been a bolt on part!

McCray, thanks for the feedback.

I went ahead and rolled the dice on one of these units figuring if I didn't like it or anything looked wonky, I would just return it. My initial impressions were pretty good.

I went ahead and installed the unit on my rifle with a new set of NECG stainless hex head action screws and torqued things in place. The PTG unit did fit into the same inletting as the Williams unit with almost identical dimensions. The one difference I noticed was that the front of the unit around the forward action screw is just slightly narrower than the Williams piece so I have a slight gap that wasn't present with the Williams piece. Only talking about a millimeter or less on each side. Not really noticeable and shouldn't cause any issue but I may get around to bedding it one day so the gap is gone.

In case anyone wants to know weights for their own projects:

Williams 1pc chromoly ...7.5oz
Factory 2pc ..................4.3oz
PTG 1pc aluminum ........2.8oz

Those weights are the bottom metal only without the follower or spring.

This rifle used to weight less than 8lbs all up but I decided to put a dialing scope on it and replace the fixed 6x. This added 10oz to the rifle landing me at 8lbs, 5oz for an empty rifle. Swapping out this bottom metal knocked 4.7 ounces off that without any major headache. And if I decide to sell the Williams unit, it would be free weight savings.

Not much in the big scheme of things...but a rifle looney's work is never done.

Good info! Thank you War Eagle

Not sure how far you want to take it but Rifles Inc. really shaves a lot of weight off a M70. I would just go with the parts that don't show but still a couple more ounces reduction.

That is something that I need to think on and figure out just what my goal is. I know it will never be a NULA or Kimber Montana...and I am okay with that. Still...the gears get to turning and I start wondering how much I could shave if I did "XYZ" to it. Then I think about how much it would cost to shave those ounces and I realize I started with the wrong platform.....

Being left handed sucks. Its times like this that I really wish I could just go buy a Montana with the bolt handle on the correct side. Bastards....

I’ve had several PT&G units where the inletting for the forward action screw was too deep... you’d snug up the screw and bind the bolt! Their solution was to cut the screw... my solution to them was machine the damn things consistently.

That co just sucks... the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.

So what are good options for a replacement aftermarket floorplate?
Especially for two piece floorplates? I’ve used Williams in the past, and never any issues for me. Solid fit and construction. It doesn’t even look as if they offer two pieces any longer?

Williams=high quality. PTG=mediocre quality and exceedingly poor customer service.

Is the Williams even available new anymore? Their website says to contact brownells but they haven’t had them forever.

I really want to give the Sunny Hill M70 aluminum a try...but they are not cheap at $460.00 a pop.

I’ve been waiting on them for quite a while to have them available. In any form. Last I spoke with them there should be a batch of stainless available now.

Beardhunter, William is not making them currently, Ross is in the process of moving.

I have heard of some of PTG's shenanigans in the past...but like I said, I figured I would roll the dice. I bought it through Midway so I figured a return would be fairly painless if I had any issues (instead of dealing with PTG directly).

To Brad's comment about machined depth of the unit, I had no issue with this one. It fit flush with the inletting just like the Williams unit did that it replaced. Here are a couple of pics that compare one rifle with a Williams and the other rifle that I installed the PTG unit on. Both of these stocks are McMillan and when I ordered them, I specified the same inletting for Williams 1pc bottom metal.

PTG on the left; Williams on the right




PTG on the left; Williams on the right




As I mentioned previously, when I installed this unit, I also installed some NECG stainless allen head action screws. These come to you longer than necessary so I had to grind them down to fit. I went slow checking that I didn't bind the bolt or bottom out on the rear. When I was done, I put the calipers on them and the lengths were essentially the same (few thou longer actually) than the factory supplied action screws. My reason for pointing this out just confirms that the PTG unit is not milled any shallower than the Williams.

Not saying I am a PTG fanboy in all this...still like the Williams units and don't plan to change out the Williams on the other rifle any time soon...just thought I would share my experience.

Oh, and both Williams units that I currently own were purchased through Brownell's several years ago. I haven't kept up on their production availability at all lately. Since I was ceracoting, I would have preferred stainless but when I purchased, stainless wasn't available.

And I am definitely not about to drop $400+ on Sunny Hill's stuff.

Thank you good to know. Have to say the Williams is my preferred.
The PTG I have I have no complaints with although it sat too deep in a b&c inlet where a used Winny one piece I got from eBay fit perfect.
My only reason for wanting a sunny hill is an eBay McWoody I picked up for my 375 has a sunny hill inlet. Probably money ahead to send it out for reinletting.

Sunny hill's aluminum bottom metal requires your mag box to be cut and its two pieces bolted together. For the price they want Indont think it's a good deal given the two points mentioned above.

What’s the best option out there for lightweight 70 BM?

PT&G... the trigger guard and floor plate should be re-contoured, then you’ve got something (as long as the inlets for the actions screws are not machined too deeply). In several cases it took 6 mo’s and several returns to get one that was machined correctly.

Pt&g aluminium is the lightest most cost effective I’ve come across.

Just got my Sunny hill. Lighter than the ptg. Fits the McMillan Sunnyhill inlet perfectly, but the opening for the trigger isn’t wide enough to fit my factory trigger. Not on this gun or any of my umpteen other Winchester 70’s.

Can you post a picture of what you mean, please?

that last line, sort of sums up what most rifle folks think of them locally, here in the Rogue Valley..

they are located here, over in White City...

on the other hand, I've taken stuff over there directly, and they have taken the time to find something that fit what I needed at the time...

Dave Kiff the owner, has a reputation of being kind of screwy....

I just posted a pic comparing the Sunnyhill vs the ptg in the image gallery. The opening in the bottom metal for the trigger shoe is too narrow. It isn’t as obvious in the photo I posted up because the ptg is black anodized.

An easy fix, but taking a file to a $460 trigger guard kind of pisses me off. ....and I just discovered how to add a photo.

It’s a two minute fix with a mill....but still. I will more than likely take a spare trigger and narrow it before I take a file to my bottom metal.

You mentioned that it is lighter than the PTG. Can you tell us the weight?

I agree with you; you shouldn't have to file a $460 part that was made specifically for the application.

Sunny 2oz.
Ptg 2.5 oz.

What is involved with cutting the mag box to fit the Sunny Hill? What is that all about?

Read that post earlier....doesn’t have to be done with their non drop box bottom metal. And not so sure that it has to be done on the drop box metal but I’ve never installed one so can’t say for sure.

Got an email from Sunnyhill. Apparently this is how the guards are designed. In all fairness I found the included instructions which state they leave it narrow as most people (their words) like the narrower trigger shoe of the pre64. They will mill the slot larger for no charge. Just a heads up if you go that route.

Thanks for all of the information, updates and explanation, BeardHunter.
Very helpful, sir.

What McMillan stocks are those in the pictures, thanks!

The stock with the PTG unit is a Compact Hunter's Edge. The one with the William's unit is a Supergrade Edge.

Is this the one I’d need for a New Haven Model 70 Classic short action?

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/511-short-action-winchester-bottom-metal.html

As long as it’s going into a stock inlet for 1 piece bottom metal.

And I would order from Midway long before I would order direct.

Not sure if this is a viable option, but current BACO bottom metal has a one-piece trigger guard, made of aluminum, and has a steel floor plate. Don't know if "Winchester" / Browning / FN will sell just the bottom metal. It is not all aluminum nor steel, but a combination. Perhaps it is light enough. Maybe someone is selling their BACO Win 70 bottom metal after replacing it with something else. Ebay?

Just a thought. Free advice is worth what you pay for it.