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A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".

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And the stupid Texan doesn't know where the guts are.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".



You know, that's the kind of chit that divides us all.


Not gonna start a pissing match with you, but I know some VERY good hunters and firearms experts from all over the country. Some of them even live in Texas. smile


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Originally Posted by moosemike
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".

Originally Posted by moosemike
And the stupid Texan doesn't know where the guts are.


The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.

No wonder they call you "Dooshmike."

You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.

You're the dumbazz.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by moosemike
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".



You know, that's the kind of chit that divides us all.


Not gonna start a pissing match with you, but I know some VERY good hunters and firearms experts from all over the country. Some of them even live in Texas. smile


Yeah, obviously, a guy who's killed one deer with a 243 and flubbed the shot is an expert should be listened to when he says it's not a good cartridge.


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[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Here's a neat little buck. Kimber Montana 1-8 twist 243, factory 100 grain Hornady Whitetail ammo.


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[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

This New Mexico mulie weighed 300 pounds. 105 Hornady HPBT hand load.


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Originally Posted by TexasPhotog


The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.

You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.



Says a lot when you have to explain that to another "hunter".


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[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

They work on other critters like antelope and elk well too. 100 grain Hornady Whitetail factory ammo was used on both.


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[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Here's a better frame of the buck on the right of the previous post.

Oopsie, that's a 243 hull used for scale.

Maybe Dooshmike will hang some pixels of the one doe he "livershot" and was lucky to find?

Maybe she'll tell us more about her "experience?"


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The prob with the 243 is that it was originally conceived of as a 'dual-purpose' cartridge, to be used for both varmints/predators, and for deer. Hence you had the lighter bullets with thin jackets for varmints, and then usually 100 gr thicker jacketed bullets for deer.

Sometimes idiots would use the varmint loads when they went deer hunting. The light bullets would blow up and not penetrate. That resulted in trouble.

To quote Big Stick, it's about bullets, not headstamps.

If you take the 243 deer hunting and are using a deer bullet, then you'll be happy. If you use a thin-jacketed varmint bullet, you're gonna wish you hadn't.

Bullets have evolved, and a light weight bullet made with a heavy jacket, or a monometal, will work.

Were it me, I'd just buy a box of 243's loaded with the 95 gr Nosler partition and go kill a deer. Yes...I say again, YES...there are plenty of other bullets suitable for deer besides the Partition. They are equally fine choices. The main thing is to choose a bullet designed for deer hunting vs, say, ground hog/woodchuck/whistle pig hunting, or prairie dog hunting.

If you're in doubt about a particular bullet, run it by the 'fire here, and the lads will let you know.

Edit: Apologies. I just read back 5 pages or so and just now realized I stepped into the middle of a pissin' contest! Another option, and options are always nice to have and sometimes useful, would be go to with a 7mm-08. It doesn't have much recoil, either, and is extremely effective. But as for the .243, it will certainly kill deer if proper ammunition loaded with a proper bullet is used and the operator has a clue what he/she is doing. If the operator is an idiot, then it doesn't matter what they are shooting...they are prolly gonna screw the pooch.

Last edited by DELGUE; 01/19/20.

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Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by chuckster243
I disagree with your disagreement, the design is to kill not look pretty for an after picture. Where did it fail to meet the design?


I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. I (nor you in the post that I responded to) never said anything about a bullet being designed to "look pretty for an after picture".

If an accubond at above the recommended minimum impact velocity doesn't expand (for whatever reason) after going through bone and lungs and acts like a FMJ, but the animal dies after running several hundred yards did the bullet act as it was designed to? I'd say "no", despite it killing the animal.
Likewise if that same accubond opens up way too quickly and fails to penetrate a scapula, acting more like a varmint grenade, but a small fragment or the core separates and finds its way through to the windpipe or lung and kills the animal after it runs several hundred yards, would you say that accubond worked as it was designed to?

If you say "yes" to both of these scenarios then why do bullet manufactures give details about design such as X% weight retention, designed for penetration through heavy bone, etc.? I've never seen a bullet designed simply to "kill".

Edited to add: I'm not saying these are common scenarios with accubonds....I am just using them as possible examples to illustrate my point.


Have to apologize on that one, most posts I see refer to someone looking for the picture-perfect, magazine-advertisement, mushroom. My bad. I would not say either one performed per design, and have major flaws in either the materials employed in manufacture, or a process that does not supply predictable products. They did both kill, but apparently there are better, more predictable options. A manufacturer supplying x% of retained weight is giving subjective data, they "hope" it holds together and meets their criteria yielding the advertised result. It may or may not, there's too many variables in the middle, not withstanding the same 'oops" that every manufacturer becomes saddled with at some point. I've never seen a bullet specifically advertised as "simply to kill" I thought that was the whole point behind firing a bullet at whatever, in the first place.

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Originally Posted by chuckster243
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by chuckster243
I disagree with your disagreement, the design is to kill not look pretty for an after picture. Where did it fail to meet the design?


I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. I (nor you in the post that I responded to) never said anything about a bullet being designed to "look pretty for an after picture".

If an accubond at above the recommended minimum impact velocity doesn't expand (for whatever reason) after going through bone and lungs and acts like a FMJ, but the animal dies after running several hundred yards did the bullet act as it was designed to? I'd say "no", despite it killing the animal.
Likewise if that same accubond opens up way too quickly and fails to penetrate a scapula, acting more like a varmint grenade, but a small fragment or the core separates and finds its way through to the windpipe or lung and kills the animal after it runs several hundred yards, would you say that accubond worked as it was designed to?

If you say "yes" to both of these scenarios then why do bullet manufactures give details about design such as X% weight retention, designed for penetration through heavy bone, etc.? I've never seen a bullet designed simply to "kill".

Edited to add: I'm not saying these are common scenarios with accubonds....I am just using them as possible examples to illustrate my point.


Have to apologize on that one, most posts I see refer to someone looking for the picture-perfect, magazine-advertisement, mushroom. My bad. I would not say either one performed per design, and have major flaws in either the materials employed in manufacture, or a process that does not supply predictable products. They did both kill, but apparently there are better, more predictable options. A manufacturer supplying x% of retained weight is giving subjective data, they "hope" it holds together and meets their criteria yielding the advertised result. It may or may not, there's too many variables in the middle, not withstanding the same 'oops" that every manufacturer becomes saddled with at some point. I've never seen a bullet specifically advertised as "simply to kill" I thought that was the whole point behind firing a bullet at whatever, in the first place.


Not a problem my man.....always good to her multiple thoughts on subjects such as this.



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I think this sums up the anti 243 argument some are trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Colorado1135
I think this sums up the anti 243 argument some are trying to make.

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B I N G O ! and we CAN'T leave out BULLET PLACEMENT.



In years past I killed WT with the .243 & 6mm Rem. Thankfully I never lost one using them.
However being a loony I started using other cartridges, 308 W, 270 W, 06, 7 Rm and I saw the difference.
After killing many WT with all 243----7 RM I saw that larger bullets and at similar velocity (speed) showed more impact response and quicker grounding ( I do know that 243 & 6mm were responsible for DRT but NOT always.)

I have and still like my 6mm Rem but I haven't deer hunted it in more years than I can remember. It's been a while.

I'll take large holes.


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Originally Posted by TexasPhotog
Originally Posted by moosemike
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".

Originally Posted by moosemike
And the stupid Texan doesn't know where the guts are.


The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.

No wonder they call you "Dooshmike."

You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.

You're the dumbazz.

And you're awful kchunty.

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Geez children! I have used the 243 a lot over the many years. If I were going to treat a 243 like a full service deer rifle I would trade it in for a 7-08. Seemed to me if I used a bullet that gave reliable exits I got narrow wound channels and sometimes I had to do some tracking. On the other hand if I used a bullet in the mid weight range like the 87 gr. Hornady or 85 gr. Speer SPBT I didn't often get an exit but the deer didn't go as far. If you go up just a bit in caliber you can get the best of both worlds, good wound channels and exits. Starting with the 6.5 Creed to the 308 you give up nothing, gain some and recoil is not all that hard to deal with. I liked the 95 gr. Ballistic Tip the best.


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Originally Posted by Bearcat74

80gr Barnes TTSX through the shoulders, tracking is overrated.


+1 on this! My daughter killer her 10th deer in 4 seasons yesterday with this combo. As she grows in confidence and shoots more shoulders and less lungs, the blood trails get shorter......
She has yet to have a deer run more than 50 yards and more than half have fallen in their tracks. The last 2 deer have crumpled without so much as a kick and both were center shoulder shots and between 120 and 150 yards.

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If you can't kill a deer with a .243 and the right bullet, you might need to get another activity.


I agree. Killed plenty of deer with a 243. Stick with bullets intended for deer sized game and learn to shoot your rifle. End of list.

Quote
but the story tellers never admit to a badly placed shot.....it's always the gun's fault.


I have helped on plenty of bloodtrails both gun and bow hunting where the shooter made a "good hit" only to eventually find the deer 400 yards away and "UH OH!" Surprise, surprise the hit was actually for complete s#*t. If that was the case in most of the long tracking jobs that ended with a recovered deer then I'm fairly certain that it was the case with the unrecovered ones as well.

Gut shot deer can go a long ways and be hard to find no matter what you shoot them with. It would be very rare IMHO if making a 30 caliber hole through a deers colon made it much easier to find compared to one with a 24 caliber hole in the same spot.

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Originally Posted by Todd_Bradford
Quote
If you can't kill a deer with a .243 and the right bullet, you might need to get another activity.


I agree. Killed plenty of deer with a 243. Stick with bullets intended for deer sized game and learn to shoot your rifle. End of list.


Exactly.


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