Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Does Bluing increase friction?

Whilst discussing this topic a tin foil hat may be appropriate.

Dan_oz,
Granted we are probably talking about which angels dance best on the head of a pin but my thought was that the bluing might create a longer magnetic field than intended. Amplifying the Magnetospeed field...

If it is another force on the projectile than it might act similar to gravity in spindrift..

Like someone else said an interesting experiment..

Particle accelerators use magnetic fields to steer and accelerate really small things around the equivalent of a NASCAR track until they hit a target speed, then the send them down a runaway truck ramp to crash into something. I am suggesting we are talking about a really small amount of that same magnetic steering force...

Probably not germane to the op...but I was bluing a barrel yesterday, remembered this topic, and took some very precise (without an electron comparator) EXTERNAL measurements with a Swedish ten thou. mike. Tried to eliminate every variable I could think of, recorded my measurements and re measured after bluing when the temperature stabilized back to the starting test temp. You guessed it...no change. Conclusion? If there was no physical dimensional change, I doubt you could quantify a velocity change given all the variables.

Not when it's free standing...

I've fitted thousands of chromoly barrels over the last forty years and have blued the bore of each and every one of them. I do think bluing can make the surface just a little bit sticky. I once built a 35 whelen on a 98 Mauser. The rifle got iron sights and sight installation was done before blueing. When it was all done, I pulled the barrel and blued the rifle. I had a hell of a time turning the barrel in to register with the sights on top. I finally lapped the threads a bit with JB compound to set it up. GD

only time I plug the bores is when Parkerizing and plating, never blueing, tried that once

How do you say bluing creates a magnetic field? How would such a field, if it existed, "amplify the Magnetospeed field"?

What force is created? In which direction does it act? Where does the energy come from?



What you are talking about is effectively a rail gun, or coil gun. You need to pump in considerable amounts of electrical energy to create a strong enough field to make them accelerate projectiles, as well as supplying this energy in a particularly specific way. Where does the energy come from to create a strong enough magnetic field to accelerate projectiles to any noticeable or measurable degree in your blued rifle?

Thanks for the clarification. I will ask what my gunsmith does. He either uses a chamber plug or polishes it afterward as the chamber isn't blued.

Edit. This didn't come out right by by responding to each q...
Q1
Assuming that the bluing has some magnetic properties, two magnets in close proximity will constructively, or destructively interfere...

Q2
Still talking about a magnetic or current induced force here. The direction of which is probably unknowable without serious high quality instrumentation.

Q3
Except my assumption is that the force is probably not co linear with the velocity of the projectile. My thoughts tend to be that it is temporary (not constant like gravity) possibly somewhat lateral push on a spinning object. Producing the "push on a spinning toy top" analogy.....

My general interest on reading that bluing was essentially magnetite is that we might better understand the "why" of the observed group spread when using the Magnetospeed. Something to test if a gunwriter (or someone else) as a slow month and access to the right equipment.
I fear that I have distracted the OPs focus of the thread (bluing thickness) though. Which was unintentional. Just an "oh wow, that's interesting" kind of thing related to bluing.

Thanks for making me think more about the forces involved....

I have been reading with interest, although I have had to re-read some parts several times! That comment about John Barsness saying that a smooth barrel increases friction due to more bullet contact really intrigues me. It seems almost counter-intuitive to me. Does anybody know where I can find where he wrote that? Article/book? It would be interesting to see if any other gun loony agrees or disagrees with that theory. (At least I assume it is a theory??) May need to start a new thread on that!

I would have to agree with Mule Deer. You are creating MORE contact... more drag... but we are talking a very LITTLE bit. I took a 1 night a week gun course in Burlington, Iowa for a couple of years. This was a night course and really had NOTHING to do with the full time day course. The day instructor was one of the finest gun smiths and was in a lot of the gunsmith guild builds... but said he would rather go fishing... The bore was not plugged at bluing. One of the know it all students decided he knew more than anyone else and plugged a bore which blew out and sprayed it all over the place. No one plugged the bore after that. Story I got was the bluing penetrates about 1K of an inch and builds less. About first shots cleaned it all out. We would use wire and make hooks to hang the barrels from. I was about the last guy to the tanks one night an the bluing level was a little low. Not wanting to add water and have to wait till the temp came back up I tried to wiggle the support rods for a little more "DUNK" and stuck my fingers in the bluing... just about half way. YA, IT BURNED>>> BAD ! The guys made fun of me and said my hands my hands were made of cast iron as they turned red and not black. Under running water you could pour the skin on my fingers back and forth.
These discussions are fun but in the end matter way too little that we will ever notice. Ray

From this thread in 2015:

So basically why drag racers use slicks as opposed to street tires. Makes sense.

Also that hot blueing stick/penetrates better (in the absence of fire and lead)...
So the bluing coming off the inside may be related to oxidation energies...

My chemistry is a bit rusty but zinc is to the right of iron on the periodic chart. Zinc is used as a sacrificial anode to prevent rust on boat prop shafts and motors. Lead is to the right of zinc. Copper is next to zinc on the left side, but still right of iron. Perhaps under the heat of firing the oxygen if the bluing prefers to stick to copper or lead?


Dan_OZ, a cool YouTube clip for magnetic force and copper found while looking up periodic table and oxidation.....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sENgdSF8ppA

Off a forum I bought a 260Remington Douglass XX blued 98 Mauser unfired Factory 22" 2# 10.5 oz = 42.5 oz $115 + $15 shipping = $130
That was cheap. These days I pay $300 and have to cut my own chamber and threads.

It seems to have a bore blued at the factory.
It gets Copper fouling in a couple groups.
It may be that the bluing helps me see the Copper.

When I clean it an shoot 100 gr bullets through the 10" twist barrel, it gets good groups.


2009 is the last time that Mauser went to the range.