Last few nights, watched the 5 installments of Anzacs. I had no idea as a Yank, what the AIF went through. Clearly, in the film, Brit high command had no more regard for the Anzacs than they had for their own troops, squandering them as cannon fodder. Curiousity caused me to look further at online published statistics. It does look like the high command treated the Anzacs even worse than Tommy, roughly 13% deaths for the Brits and over 20 % for the Anzacs. Criminal. Unbelievably sad.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
And the whole idea was Winston Churchill's. The result got him kicked out of the war office I believe. By the time WW2 came along he seemed to have been forgiven.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
And the whole idea was Winston Churchill's. The result got him kicked out of the war office I believe. By the time WW2 came along he seemed to have been forgiven.
I have little regard for Churchill and MacArthur for that matter.
Both had egos matched only by...well...their egos.
Lives get squandered.
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I have little regard for Churchill and MacArthur for that matter.
Both had egos matched only by...well...their egos.
Lives get squandered.
You can add Montgomery to the massive ego list as well. His hare brained Operation Market Garden got a lot of good men killed.
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In the movie, and history, Gen. Haig seemed to have never heard of the saying that if you keep doing something over and over and expect a different result, you are truly insane. I suppose we can take comfort from the fact of sheer body count, millions upon millions, the Russkies in the revolution and both wars take the cake. Allied leaders were stupid and hardheaded to a criminal degree, but the Russians were known to deliberately order "politically unreliable" units into suicide assaults. I guess the Russian peasant soldier feared his leaders and political officers far more than the enemy.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
And the whole idea was Winston Churchill's. The result got him kicked out of the war office I believe. By the time WW2 came along he seemed to have been forgiven.
I have little regard for Churchill and MacArthur for that matter.
Both had egos matched only by...well...their egos.
Lives get squandered.
Well they're both did something right, you're not typing in German or Japanese. I don't know how you can monday morning quarterback Churchhill like that. He saved England. It was all he could do. England's back was against the wall. Also, McArther saved many lives in the Pacific by bypassing many islands that weren't that important. Surely you don't blame him for what happened in the Philippines, and he didn't just skip out of there, he was ordered to leave twice by the President.
Last edited by Filaman; 01/22/20.
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I have little regard for Churchill and MacArthur for that matter.
Both had egos matched only by...well...their egos.
Lives get squandered.
You can add Montgomery to the massive ego list as well. His hare brained Operation Market Garden got a lot of good men killed.
In WWII he was the worst, IMO.
I met Montgomery in person in the mid 1960's, as a pre-teen. Only for a few minutes, in the company of his grandson who I knew.
Even then I remember my gut telling me that he was altogether a bad person and should be avoided. I sensed a brooding malevolence, standoffish. Perhaps he had something against yanks like me.
In the fullness of time I have encountered descriptions of him and his actions during WWII (by others), which serve to reinforce and enlarge my earlier formed opinion of him.
Carry what you’re willing to fight with - Mackay Sagebrush
Last few nights, watched the 5 installments of Anzacs. I had no idea as a Yank, what the AIF went through. Clearly, in the film, Brit high command had no more regard for the Anzacs than they had for their own troops, squandering them as cannon fodder. Curiousity caused me to look further at online published statistics. It does look like the high command treated the Anzacs even worse than Tommy, roughly 13% deaths for the Brits and over 20 % for the Anzacs. Criminal. Unbelievably sad.
And the whole idea was Winston Churchill's. The result got him kicked out of the war office I believe. By the time WW2 came along he seemed to have been forgiven.
I have little regard for Churchill and MacArthur for that matter.
Both had egos matched only by...well...their egos.
Lives get squandered.
Well they're both did something right, you're not typing in German or Japanese......
In context of WW1 and "birth of the ANZACs", Churchill did nothing right but caused needless deaths for no gain. The Gallipoli/Dardenelles campaign had no strategic benefits. Churchill was in charge of the Royal Navy and choose the campaign so he could "get in on the action". Young guy, big ego, needlessly sacrificed the lifes of others. He was kicked out of the war office to prevent any further damage - he was a hinderence.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
Last few nights, watched the 5 installments of Anzacs. I had no idea as a Yank, what the AIF went through. Clearly, in the film, Brit high command had no more regard for the Anzacs than they had for their own troops, squandering them as cannon fodder. Curiousity caused me to look further at online published statistics. It does look like the high command treated the Anzacs even worse than Tommy, roughly 13% deaths for the Brits and over 20 % for the Anzacs. Criminal. Unbelievably sad.
The Gallipoli/Dardenelles campaign had no strategic benefits. Churchill was in charge of the Royal Navy and choose the campaign so he could "get in on the action". Young guy, big ego, needlessly sacrificed the lifes of others. He was kicked out of the war office to prevent any further damage - he was a hinderence.
That isn't really true. The Dardanelles Straits had very significant strategic value, as they determined access to the Black Sea, in order to support and supply Russia. As well, if the Dardanelles had been taken it was thought (not without good reason) that the Ottoman Empire might collapse.
What let down the British, French, African, ANZAC and other soldiers landed on and near Gallipoli was some poor planning, poor execution in the initial phases and the unexpectedly effective defence by the Turks. Quite a number of people were held to account for failure of the campaign.
Getting back to the miniseries, IIRC towards the end you see what happened later in the war, when the ANZACs were brought under Australian command at Corps level, and Monash (may he live on in our memories) developed and successfully applied combined arms assaults bringing together infantry, armour, air, and better coordinated artillery, as well as other things like better planning and comms, to contribute to turning the tide on the Western Front. The AEF turning up in the final months (and being trained by Australians before getting into it) also played a part in breaking the Central Powers.
