Imagine the 1st guy that patted one that finally came in from outta the dark around a campfire 10,s of 1000,s yrs ago for a peice of meat out of his hand.
Imagine the wolf/dog overcoming its instinct to do that.
More inclined to go with Idaho shooters idea that early Man had come across pups and raised them.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
Made jest at me when I was pumped up about seeing the movie "Alpha" about a yr or so ago. LMFAO!!!!!
No reason to insult Salty there cheesebreath.
At the time of that movie a suggestion was made by a cool guy here that you go find an injured adult wolf and bring it home. Why it’ll be a wonder dog in no time at all 😎
Actually even wolf pups grow up into horrible pets, turns out when they get to be around two years of age THEY wanna be the Alpha. And there’s that whole issue of killing your neighbors’ kids on account of they are from rival packs.
Essentially a good dog is a retarded wolf that, at around age two, doesn’t suddenly try to kill you in order to become the Alpha.
Nice try at a spin. Meant for you and only you.... Just like this below: LMFAO!!!!
People tend to make pets of things, most anything, always have, especially if it’s a baby.
Just by chance someone adopted a retarded wolf puppy ( no insults please).
when they think your their mama it makes it easier.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
Imagine the 1st guy that patted one that finally came in from outta the dark around a campfire 10,s of 1000,s yrs ago for a peice of meat out of his hand.
Imagine the wolf/dog overcoming its instinct to do that.
More inclined to with Idaho shooters idea that early Man come across pups and raised them.
I am amused when ever I read suppositions of how wolves and humans came to bond together.
People are people and have always been people. The brain was a little smaller, and language and arts less refined, but they were people still. Even 40 or 50 thousand years ago.
You wanna know how humans and wolves came to live together, ask stxhunter and his little fox.
When people actually live IN the environment, they coexisted with the animals. Not like Disney. Like raw nature. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.
But in every case folks like little cuddly babies. They pick them up at any opportunity. They kill the mothers and carry the baby back to the village.
Heck, when we were kids on the farm we had little wild life around. But still we managed to catch several baby skunks and dig up a couple fox dens over the years. The foxes lived in a kennel outside for several years and subsisted on feral cats tossed their way. So they never became semi domesticated like George's has.
But you know, in a hunter/gatherer society, someone is going to stumble across a litter of baby wolves playing outside the den one day. Or they are going to catch the momma wolf in a snare and eat her. Or they are going to catch a pup in a snare and drag it home. But every few years someone is going to capture one and take it home to his lady companion or his kids. Perhaps if young enough, the pup might have even been reared on human breast milk. And with hundreds and hundreds of tribes living alongside wolves in disparate portions of the globe for tens of thousands of years, there had to be thousands of wolf pups captured and domesticated and even eaten over the millenia.
I do not understand where all the mystery or romance comes from?
There's good reasons that theory (once popular) has been rejected. The best theory is self-domestication. Wolves captured as pups don't make helpful companions for humans in the least. There's no way primitive man would have wasted resources on an eater that doesn't contribute significantly to their survival.
Imagine the 1st guy that patted one that finally came in from outta the dark around a campfire 10,s of 1000,s yrs ago for a peice of meat out of his hand.
Imagine the wolf/dog overcoming its instinct to do that.
More inclined to go with Idaho shooters idea that early Man had come across pups and raised them.
Imagine the 1st guy that patted one that finally came in from outta the dark around a campfire 10,s of 1000,s yrs ago for a peice of meat out of his hand.
Imagine the wolf/dog overcoming its instinct to do that.
Or stuff along those lines.....
Instead of being competitors Both started working together. Strengths of each multiplied by working together.
Deal was sealed ..... 2 species that evolved together.
All y’all did see “Dances With Wolves “ didn’t y’all?
What more proof do y’all need?
Grins
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
All y'all are supporting that liberal agenda that was mentioned about "Alpha".
Surprise no one else has brought it up.
There weren't no humans, or dogs 26000 years ago.
The world is only 4000, OK, maybe 6000 years old, depending on the interpretation of the calendars. "Giants" (dinosaurs) walked the earth back then and their fossilized remains are there to test us. Eohippus did not evolve into Black Beauty and Man O War. Dire Wolves did not evolve into Lassie and Ol Yeller.
Everything, I mean EVERYTHING come off that Ark just like it is and is sposed to be.
Y'all thinking some child been walking with the wolf in the back of the cave that long ago are walkin' with the Deceiver, Ol' Mr Pointy Tail hisself.
Better get right.
GEno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
All y'all are supporting that liberal agenda that was mentioned about "Alpha".
Surprise no one else has brought it up.
There weren't no humans, or dogs 26000 years ago.
The world is only 4000, OK, maybe 6000 years old, depending on the interpretation of the calendars. "Giants" (dinosaurs) walked the earth back then and their fossilized remains are there to test us. Eohippus did not evolve into Black Beauty and Man O War. Dire Wolves did not evolve into Lassie and Ol Yeller.
Everything, I mean EVERYTHING come off that Ark just like it is and is sposed to be.
Y'all thinking some child been walking with the wolf in the back of the cave that long ago are walkin' with the Deceiver, Ol' Mr Pointy Tail hisself.
You subtract from a wolf to get a dog. Want short hair? Block the gene pathway that makes guard hairs (easy to do, any one of several genes along the path will do).
Want a black dog? Melanism is also found in wolves, want a yellow dog? block the gene pathways for the other colors that combine to make grey.
Short legs? Exact same thing as dwarfism in humans. Bent over ears? Leave the ears in puppy form, block the genes that make em stand up.
Then select for certain specific traits of wolf behavior you want. Tracking? Wolves do that too as part of their repertoire, retrieving? wolves do that to. Pointing? Yep. Protection dog? Wolves attack and kill intruding wolves.
Google up late term wolf fetus. Pretty much exactly like a chihuahua complete with soft spot in the skull. A case of arrested development.
What separates a dog from a wolf is a short stretch of identified DNA, which somehow imbues the dog with an ability to interpret human facial expressions and mannerisms. Wolves can’t, even if adopted as young pups.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
[quote=renegade50]Imagine the 1st guy that patted one that finally came in from outta the dark around a campfire 10,s of 1000,s yrs ago for a peice of meat out of his hand.
Imagine the wolf/dog overcoming its instinct to do that.
More inclined to go with Idaho shooters idea that early Man had come across pups and raised them.
Long ago discredited, and for good reason.
Discredited by who and how.
TRH: As a long proponent of evolution, I am surprised by this response from you.
I am not saying that every wolf pup brought home to the tribe became domesticated, nor that they did so in the first generation. But after thousands upon thousands of captured pups over thousands of years a few learned to live with their host humans, and every subsequent generation was culled for compatibility.
Even if the original captured pup only survived in the village for a couple years, that is enough to get two litters to cull from.
If we can solidly demonstrate that chijaujaus, shelties, poodles, yorkies, GSD, English bull dogs, Irish wolf hounds, Australian dingos, great Danes, all from the smallest to largest have been selectively bred from parent stock wolves, why should it be hard to understand those same parents could be selectively bred for cooperative behavior and hunting ability. They would soon become a valuable asset to the tribe rather than an expensive novelty.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
What separates a dog from a wolf is a short stretch of identified DNA, which somehow imbues the dog with an ability to interpret human facial expressions and mannerisms. Wolves can’t, even if adopted as young pups.
That is an interesting tid bit.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
Very interesting. The tracks are there so this event happened but there are lots of things to wonder about.
The article says the small child (approximately 5'2" tall, how tall was an adult in those days?) was walking in the back of the deep cave with his buddy the wolf-dog. With no adult supervision? Nobody noticed him wandering off or went to search for him? So, this small child had enough wit about himself to carry a torch and also knew how to clean the torch and keep it going. I don't know much about caves but I assume there would be enough air flow to keep the torch burning.
There must have been enough of an increase in the air flow to dry out the clay soon after the tracks were made to preserve them for thousands of years. But then nobody else other than this small child and his wolf-dog were curious enough to explore the cave before it dried out.
At some point the walls of the cave dried out enough to hold whatever primitive paint these guys had to make their drawings. Going from a mud floor to walls dry enough to paint on would take some serious air flow.
The floor of the deep cave was semi firm mud at the time so the explorers left tracks going in. Why was the floor muddy? Did it periodically flood? So it apparently didn't flood after the tracks were left or the tracks would have been washed away. Was the floor wet because of seepage and water percolating through the cave ceiling? Why weren't the tracks dissolved?
Were the tracks made at the only time in thousands of years of geological history that conditions were perfect for leaving them preserved for us to speculate on?
All y'all are supporting that liberal agenda that was mentioned about "Alpha".
Surprise no one else has brought it up.
There weren't no humans, or dogs 26000 years ago.
The world is only 4000, OK, maybe 6000 years old, depending on the interpretation of the calendars. "Giants" (dinosaurs) walked the earth back then and their fossilized remains are there to test us. Eohippus did not evolve into Black Beauty and Man O War. Dire Wolves did not evolve into Lassie and Ol Yeller.
Everything, I mean EVERYTHING come off that Ark just like it is and is sposed to be.
Y'all thinking some child been walking with the wolf in the back of the cave that long ago are walkin' with the Deceiver, Ol' Mr Pointy Tail hisself.
Better get right.
GEno
LOL!!!!
Are you scoffing.
DO NOT scoff.
He's making a list..........................your name is on it.
Scoffers go to the bottom of the list.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
Most of the natives had dogs around these parts. I don't think they'd be all lovey dovey about them like we are but they coexisted and benefited from each other.
A some years ago when they discovered the feral Carolina Yellow Dog or “Carolina Dingo” folks leapt to the conclusion it hadda be some sort of Indian dog, genetic testing showed different, just a feral Euro dog after several feral generations.
There was a popular assumption that Indian dogs had to be wolf-life (completely ignoring the existence of chihuahuas) as if a largely unbiddable and independent dog would be of any use at all in the woods. Worse, in hostile country such a dog could give your presence away and possibly get you killed.
You prob’ly already know about the Tahltan Bear Dog, a knee-high Indian breed resembling a short-tailed spitz type, and reportedly a fine companion dog in the woods. Sadly extinct, likely due to disease. A fate which apparently befell a number of native dog types..
Less well known is the fact that in Eighteenth Century accounts and portraits of the Iroquois and other Eastern Tribes, similar dogs to the bear dog in size and appearance appear, often a single dog sitting or standing (no leash) close by its presumed master.
IIRC one account from Canada had this sort of dog ranging about forty yards out front of an Iroquois hunting party, much as one might expect a American rat terrier to do today.
I’m on a iPhone right now, but if you google up Southwestern Indian dog mummy, you’ll see an image of one lop-eared medium sized brown and white dog that could pass for a modern spaniel. No idea if that one retrieved.
Yep I'd heard of the Tahltan dogs, not much about them though. Interesting sideline.. had a neighbour a couple places back that went up there to teach for the Tahltan people in the late 70s or so. This is up there a ways like Alaska up there. He had a lot of wild stories from his time up there. He only spoke highly of the people but just the remoteness, grizzly bear stories, wolverine stories and stuff. He came back with a souvenir, the rear quarter of his 75 Power Wagon was stove in with custom grizzly pin striping. Its still a pretty remote place still and sure as hell was then.
