I remember when John Taffin used to say that recoil never bothered him. Then Arthur (itis) came to visit and stayed. BTW--I'm 60, 5'7" and 160lbs, with two shoulder replacements. I'll stick with 9mm, thank you very much.
Watch Hickok45 (a large man with decades of experience shooting Glocks in all calibers) starting at the 2:40 mark. Every time you see his support hand re-adjust, what you're witnessing is the fact that, under recoil, during strings of fire, his support hand has slipped off of its ideal position, and the support grip must be adjusted back to where it's supposed to be. It's subtle, but watch closely and you will see it happen several times during strings of fire.
I guess he needs more protein in his diet, right? And I'm willing to bet he didn't even know he was doing it, because it had become second nature to make those readjustments whenever his support hand slipped off its ideal lock-up position during strings of fire. This is more likely to occur with a Glock 22 than with a Glock 17.
He does that with every gun he shoots. I doubt it's due to recoil impulse as much as it is to the fact that he has catchers mitts and adjusts his hands to avoid pinching, scraping etc
Last edited by gitem_12; 01/26/20.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I've shot way too many critters with handguns to believe for a minute that there's no discernible difference in the terminal effect of large and small service pistol cartridges.
Amen .
And this medical examiner study thing gets brought up 3 times a year . Feel good validation i guess . I dunno
And hickock as A citation for EVERY TOPIC ... lawd Jesus
Last edited by jmd025; 01/26/20.
Rabid Creedmoorians ring my doorbell ... as I open it a crack they speak : "Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior , 6.5Creed?"
You guys are the red herring kings. For police shootings of humans there is no discernible difference in 45, 40, 9mm as long as penetration is 13 inches or more. Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones. We are not shooting animals with handguns in this discussion.
I would like to believe the 5.7 x 28 is "all that", its just hard for me to understand, how a 40 grain vmax at 1700 fps is as effective as even the 9mm 124 grain at 1100fps.
And yet here you are; they're all the same for you, until they're not....
You guys are the red herring kings. For police shootings of humans there is no discernible difference in 45, 40, 9mm as long as penetration is 13 inches or more. Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones. We are not shooting animals with handguns in this discussion.
Red herrings? Try clicking your ruby red slippers together and maybe that dream will come true- at least in your head.
Last edited by SargeMO; 01/26/20.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
You guys are the red herring kings. For police shootings of humans there is no discernible difference in 45, 40, 9mm as long as penetration is 13 inches or more. Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones. We are not shooting animals with handguns in this discussion.
I've killed over 300 zombies with everything from a 600 Nitro down to a sharpened stick...though it WAS pretty sharp, and I can tell you that the only thing to use is a Desert Eagle in 50AE. Easily trumps a 25 Auto or 22 short. Unless the short is in a Beretta Jetfire. Then it's cool.
You guys are the red herring kings. For police shootings of humans there is no discernible difference in 45, 40, 9mm as long as penetration is 13 inches or more. Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones. We are not shooting animals with handguns in this discussion.
I've killed over 300 zombies with everything from a 600 Nitro down to a sharpened stick...though it WAS pretty sharp, and I can tell you that the only thing to use is a Desert Eagle in 50AE. Easily trumps a 25 Auto or 22 short. Unless the short is in a Beretta Jetfire. Then it's cool.
finally someone posts something believable here! It seems we agree, 45ACP, 40SW, 9MM all about the same!
You guys are the red herring kings. For police shootings of humans there is no discernible difference in 45, 40, 9mm as long as penetration is 13 inches or more. Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones. We are not shooting animals with handguns in this discussion.
I've killed over 300 zombies with everything from a 600 Nitro down to a sharpened stick...though it WAS pretty sharp, and I can tell you that the only thing to use is a Desert Eagle in 50AE. Easily trumps a 25 Auto or 22 short. Unless the short is in a Beretta Jetfire. Then it's cool.
finally someone posts something believable here! It seems we agree, 45ACP, 40SW, 9MM all about the same!
We? You must have a mouse in your pockey. I dam sure don't agree that they are about the same.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Until I get me one of those .475 Linebaughs...gonna stick with that newfangled .480 Ruger.
Hell with it, i'll just shoot ping pong balls with dimethylmercury pellets inside out of my paint ball pistol, they wont even know they're hurt till next week!
To the point. Most agencies chose the 9mm because there is not a lot of difference between the outcomes of shootings with a 45ACP, a 40 or a 9mm. Given the best bullets to be had, at their maximum velocities, all things considered they are all about the same speed and all penetrate about as deep and all do a similar amount of damage. This is not me making this up, it’s common knowledge. When I say all things considered, recoil, your ability to shoot the gun, accuracy to hit the right spot, ability to shoot fast and more than once accurately...all things considering all people who might use the gun. The other part Glockduffus aside, the 9mm if it penetrates 13 inches is going to produce about the same damage as a 45 that penetrates 13 inches. Now I can see the 9mm and 105 howitzer will be markedly different but .35 and .45 just ain’t. Jeff Cooper was just wrong.
I really, really tried to keep my mouth shut...or my keyboard quiet, but... I work in an office of five agents, three males, two females. All have 15-20 years mixed LE and military experience, but the females generally don't shoot recreationally. None have any problem whatsoever qualifying with their .40 Glocks, which include 23s as well as 27s. Just never an issue. We shoot several courses in a day, generally 200-300 rounds. No problem. I just can't get my head around that so-called firearms guys have such a difficult time with a .40. (We use 165 gr Ranger bonded.)
No discernible difference between the various cartridges? No shiit! The FBI specced that everything has to penetrate 12-18" or whatever, so no kidding, they all perform the same. I just can't understand that when there's a 100 or more foot-pound energy difference between cartridges, no one questions what effect that has on a human that's not high. Screw me, if I'm in a gym and someone drops a 100 pound weight on my chest from a foot high, it's going to have an effect on me.
I generally work alone in Indian Country, in al weather, so the key phrase to me is "...if you get 13" of penetration." If I'm dealing with a subject wearing Carhartt overalls over a wool shirt and an undershirt, and I may less than an optimum shot angles, I want something that will assure greater than 13" penetration. And I'm not even going to discuss various barriers.
By the way, as I recall, the FBI's testing is done at ten to twelve feet! Most car stops are a hell of a lot longer distances than that.
Sorry, rant over, but I'll never get behind a 115 or 124 grain 9mm going at the same velocity as a 165 grain .40 is the same. If you want to carry a nine, go for it, just quit trying to convince everybody else.
Also killing deer with a 223 and 62 grain TSX bullets is no different than killing them with a 308 and 150 grain bullets. Also I have killed over 100 deer in my life from little ones to way big ones.
The only anecdotal data I have on the .40 S&W was when a deer was hit by a car and one of our Sgts has to put it down. It was a mesium sized doe and he fired his issue Glock .40 directly into the back of its head from about 3 ft away and the bullet ricocheted off the skull....twice. He then used a knife to the throat.
Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that a .40 S&W ricochets off the skulls of deer from 3'?
Do you honestly believe that?
Yes because I know the Sgt that shot it and I saw the deer and examined it. I skinned the skull and saw the dents in it. So I believe it fully. This was probably 15 years ago. I don’t remember the load they were using but I know they did some more testing and switched loads. A few years later they switched to .45 Glocks. Now they are using 9mms
There was also the guy who hit the deer watched him do it and said he wouldn’t have believed it if he didn’t see it. He was a gun owner and said he normally carried a .40 also
Bullshlt. Complete and utter Bullshlt. I can't believe that anyone on this board believes you.
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