Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire You cant create Order from Disorder. The 4th and 5th dimensions.

Not that old chestnut.

In case you're not familiar with the fallacy:

''The 747 Junkyard argument, also known as the tornado argument, is made by creationists and proponents of intelligent design and states that attributing the development of life to natural forces such as evolution by natural selection is like expecting a tornado moving through a junkyard to result in a fully functional Boeing 747 aircraft.''

''The tornado argument depends on the common fallacy of equating "natural" explanations of life with "randomness". Only a small part of evolutionary theory is actually based on randomness. Genetic mutations and natural genetic variation present in populations are, to a large extent, random; and the kinds of selective pressures encountered by individuals (predation, food supply fluctuations, etc.) are to some extent random in nature. However, the differential benefit of one characteristic over another in dealing with these environmental pressures (that is, the "fitness" part of "survival of the fittest") is not random. Some adaptations are clearly beneficial to the organism and some are clearly not. This means that Darwin's proposed driving force behind evolution, natural selection, is anything but random.

In addition, evolution doesn't work quickly by way of massive, uncontrolled forces, as tornadoes do. Evolution theory suggests that small changes, accumulated over extremely long periods of time, result in the current diversity of life.

Most importantly, the tornado analogy lacks the two main elements that make evolution work: reproduction (which enables "descent with modification") and selection (which enables increasing complexity). The lack of these aspects reinforces the improbability of anything useful coming out of the process.

If rephrased to account for time, natural selection and different outcomes, it should be asked what the odds are of achieving some functional transportation device from a tornado moving through a junkyard of airplane parts for three billion years, where any parts that combine successfully remain while any parts that do not match will not stay together, and assuming that no parts are ever damaged and they are interchangeable.''

On the other hand heavy elements come flying out of supernovae, about as big as explosions get.

According to Young Earth Creationism there cannot be supernova, the universe is too young, haha.

Probably why no more than three people actually believe it.

On the other hand supermassive black holes shouldn't exist given the contemporary age of the universe.

Oh, there might more than you think. Flat Earth conferences are held quite regularly. Answers in genesis .org and their like spruik young earth creationism.

Over 13 billion years of gobbling stars in the centre of galaxies....

Even black holes can only eat so fast.

As the population of Earth has exponentially exploded, so has the rate of violent acts.

But as to the rate of violence per 1000 population? I think it is lower than at any time in history. It is certainly a lot lower today than it was in 1917-1918, or in 1938 through about,,,,,,oh say 1975. There might have been a bit of violence even back in feudal Europe and Asia. Remember that Ghengis Kahn guy, and Alexander, oh and Xerxes.

Well said

Evolution's concept of time is the Fourier transform, frequency, and the repeated precipitated event has the highest information content in that entropy

in Bifurcation theory "Chaos theory" the garbage dump is the natural state, and the (plane, Bible etc.) is the bifurcation, and depending on the degree, can be "stable" or a "catastrophe" (cusp)

Rich, I will not attack your faith. But will explain mine in similar terms.
You believe God is eternal and omnipresent. You know not from whence God came, nor do you care. Correct??

I believe in conservation of matter and energy. I know not where the matter/energy of the universe came from. I know only that it exists.

Our faith is actually quite comparable.

The 5th dimension discussed was Entropy.

SO....

Maybe, maybe not. One possibility could be that black holes formed in the initial conditions and were the 'seeds' of galaxy formation.

The outward pressure is greater than the gravity to cause star formation.

You constantly assume your position is the only one. If it was so convincing why do phd evolutionists become Creationists? Your faith in the untestable is to be lauded.

You seem to think a lot of words substitute for the truth. Evolution stared by random actions. The idea of randomness assembled the necessary constituents of life. Survival of the fittest is also random. Otherwise it would be directed and evolution is contrary to the concept of directed.

You apparently are ignorant of research. The oldest Nova's are less than 7,000. There are only enough Nova's for about 7,000 years.

You are mistaken. I know Infinite Intelligent Energy had no beginning. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and be omnipresent. All matter and energy come from Him. He created conservation of energy AND entropy.

Ringman, thanks. I choose not to argue with DBT as I have better things to do. I will from time to time presents explanations of mine or others regarding GODs word or prophecies, fulfilled by this time or soon to be so.

I have no interest in trying to convince any of Gods fallen Angel's (spell check )or Satans minions.

Likewise, it's not worthwhile to explain to zero or Hillary how they are traitors.

AFAIC even if all the elements were present and an explosion caused a spark of life that became a single cell which could, if it desired to continue to live (humm, low IQ life along with a drive to live?) replicate by dividing, why would it decide to give up that simple ability and decide to want to become specialized into a more complex life form involving two different sexes and thus the increased efforts that would require to multiply. The more those life forms specialized and became more complicated, less numbers of the resultant life form would be able to exist, resulting in less chance of the species survival.
There are a lot more ameboas on this earth than there are lions.

Even then, the question of where did the elements come from in the first place dont add up to point to support for their explanation of how life began.

Feral hogs left in the wild long enough revert back to less specialized forms of pigs. Their tail straightens and they lose their more specialized color variations.
It's fine with me whatever they believe.