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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,099
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,099 |
Assuming proper bullet construction, the main thing (not the only thing, but mainly) that matters to me is velocity. All good things flow from speed.
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228 |
I have been reading with interest the thread about 338-06 or 35 whelen, because I am in a bit of the same situation. I have a 358 Win that I thought I could use, but due to it being built off a small ring Mauser, I want to keep pressures down. Because of that, I am looking at the possibilities for a bigger game rifle. Here are my parameters: game up to elk and moose size, also sufficient for big black bear. (here in Pa we have several 600+lb bear shot each year. Distance, I would say my max range at this point is 350 yards, maybe 400. I have an older Savage 110 rifle currently chambered in 30-06 that I have never shot. The gunsmith put a bore scope down the barrel, and said it looks like it as shot very little. So I have the option of A. Leaving it as an 06. Would probably put a better stock on than the cheap birch it came with. Or B. I can re-barrel to an 06 based cartridge. So I have been looking at primarily 338-06 or 35 whelen, or leaving it as an 06. I ran the numbers, and on paper there does not seem to be much difference between the 3 at 350 yards.
For the 06 using 180 grain accubonds and figuring 2850 fps muzzle velocity, 350 yard vel is 2252/2027 lbs energy.
For the 338-06 using 225 grain accubond figuring mv of 2685, 350 yard vel is 2144/2296 lbs energy
For the whelen using 225 accubond figuring mv of 2650, 350 yard vel is 1984/1966 lbs energy.
Do these numbers look like they are reasonable? I got them from Hodgdon's site. The nosler shows higher vel with the whelen, but that is a 26 inch barrel. Secondly am I missing the point entirely and should I be looking at something else? I would like to keep it to a simple barrel change if possible. For what I am seeing, I am tempted to see how the 06 currently shots, and if it is good just be done with it. My reasoning for that is easy to get brass, and a big bullet selection. I do reload for pretty much everything I have, so i don't see doing differently with an 06. As per usual,less is more. Hint. Congratulations?!? Pass a 23" 280 and 180 ELD at 2800fps. Hint. ![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/GhHX56.jpg) Less recoil,less drop,less drift,higher impact velocity and higher "energy"(which is a moot designator). Actual trigger time,will do more favors than Window Licking. Hint. Bless your heart for trying though. Hint. Just saying...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
Some of the 30-06 is marginal for elk "barnyard effluvium" (JOC) came from Elmer Kieth's early days when he was using full metal jacket military surplus bullets in his 30-06 by filing off the nose. This is not a good thing to do, Pondoro Taylor warned against this practice as it resulted in the core separating from the jacket in the barrel and then a subsequent shot would split the barrel.
The 30-06 ranks as the #1 Elk rifle in most of the RMEF hunters surveys with the 270 or 7RM ranking as number 2. If ypu shoot the 30-06 and better put it to use then all the theory will fall by the wayside. The others are cool but real world advantage would be hard to pin down. The mediums may show more of a reaction when game is hit, They may provide a blood trail slightly more consistently but even this is suspect. How much difference is 0.05" of bullet diameter going to make? It is more dependent on the bullets used than caliber.
I have not used the 30-06 much as it makes a good number of my other rifles redundant. It is boringly versatile and effective. It was Eleanor O'Conner's choice as her big rifle for things like Bengal Tiger and Brown bear.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 153
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 153 |
I read a lot of Alaskans even use the 30-06 for bear. I know of more than 1 person who has killed a large bear (9 foot or bigger) with a .30-06. I wouldn't hesitate to use a .30-06 to go bear hunting.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,605
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,605 |
Tejano,
That is false. If you read more of Keith's observations, he mentions many factory bullet failures and wounded game of various calibers. I've been reading lots of both O'connor and Keith lately.
I read a lot of old stuff when it's 30 below. Always, the gopher bullet minimalist guys have the most exciting stories of wounded bears charging and flailing about, requiring multiple shots and close calls.
Elmers stories with his 338 okh are most satisfyingly boring: bang flop.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,605
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,605 |
I'd make do with a 30-06 or 308 with 200-220 grainers. I've owned and carried a few of both.
Oftentimes, the rifle and cartridge receive far too much conversation from outdoorsmen.
Better time could be spent talking strategy like tools for recovering moose from tough locations: ratchet ropes.
The best hunting boots for when packing meat, the best rain jackets.
Training horses not to spook from loading bear or firing a rifle from saddle
Navigating shallow rivers and what boats give best fuel economy.
Camp axes that don't get brittle at 40 below.
Dog breeds best suited for winter hunts.
Chainsaws proper for blazing trail on rivers or old grown in trails.
Chainsaws and bar oil that work at 40 below
Wood stoves that burn 12-14 hours for a good night's rest.
Snow machines that have proper clutching, etc.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,725
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,725 |
I used the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved for a bit over 20yrs. No elk, but did take a lot of elk sized African Plains Game with it. I started with the old Barnes 250X at 2550fps. I could push it faster but it was bug hole accurate there. I only recoved two bullets, both on lengthwise shots on Kudu and zebra. Another trip, I took it with the 200X going 2970fps. Same results. Wicked, easy shooting. I'm sure the 338-06 and 9.3x62 would do the same...with good bullets. I loaded the 30-06 with Nosler 200PTs for several friends and the 168TTSX. either one are dynamite. So...a standard 35 Whelen with these newer powders will do what my Whelen A.I. did and less hassle. You only live once...and we "don't have to" make do. If "make do won't do" for you, get you one of those Mediums and get some experience with it! Have a ball Pard! 
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 366
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 366 |
Shoot the donor.  If it prints bug hole groups, you’re done. If not, then you can start playing with it. Also, with partitions or TTSX’s, you really needn’t go heavier than 180’s in a .30-06. Keep us posted. FC What he said.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854 |
I would think a 338-06 would be perfect for your needs.
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