Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 308 verses the 300 win mag

People who have shot Elk with both cartridges see any difference in killing power?
Thanks,

Not those 2 specifically, but I've shot elk with a 30-06 which is close to the 308 and with a 300 WSM which is close to the 300 WM. After a dozen or so elk with the 300 WSM, I realized that there wasn't a single one of them that I couldn't have got just as easy with my 30-06 that weighs a pound less.

First off I don’t have a 300 wm , but I do hunt , shoot , and hand load for 308 and 300 wsm.

Next , are you fortunate enough to live where the elk roam , with elk hunting being just another everyday occurrence for you ?
Or is an elk hunt a once or twice hunt of a lifetime for you , where you skimp and save for years then drive cross country.
I’m in the later group.

What’s your maximum range you are willing to shoot ?

I like the 308 . It’s great for a lot of things.
However when i went elk hunting I took the 300 wsm. Never even a question.
Late season hunt shots average 200-300 yds , with 400-500 being very realistic where I hunt.

The 300 wsm adds approximately 400 FPS to the same bullet vs the 308.
The 300wsm carries the same energy at 500 yds as the 308 does at 275 .
No question to me !

Not so much the maximum range where the elk will be, but the ability of the shooter to hit an elk at that range. First elk I killed was with a.308 at a little over 400 yards. At that time I was doing a lot of NRA, 3 position shooting out to 600 yards with service rifles, M1 and Springfield 03's (no scope). I was confident of my ability. Would not do that today. Whether it is a once in a life time hunt or yearly hunt,using any rifle such to extend the shooting range past the hunters ability is folly.The same as taking a shot at poor presentation angled shot thinking the magnum will get thru to the vitals.I see it every year .

Contrary to many hunters thoughts, elk are not all that hard to kill.I have killed elk with a 30-30, 44mag, 45-70, .308, 30-06, 7mm mag, and a 50 caliber muzzle loader from 10 yards to 400+. They all died about the same, except the few when I messed up the shot. Longest tracking job was one I shot with a 7 mag many years ago. I really messed that one up.I was over confident of the 7mags ability.

I’ve killed quite a few with a 300wm, a couple with a 308 and seen my daughter kill several more with a 308.

We’ve had no trouble killing elk with a 308. On my daughter’s first bull she hit him twice from opposite sides and ended up breaking both shoulders with 150 grain cheapo federal ammo. Shots were around 240 yards I think.

I’ve also taken shots with the wm that I probably would not have with a 308.

There seems to be some element on this board that thinks magnums are overkill, hardly anyone can really shoot them, too heavy, too loud, too much recoil, etc. Hunters who really know what they are doing only need a .237 pipsqueak.

I think there are some scenarios when the wm will open up some options. I think that the real difference is who is shooting. Yes I’ve had hunters that couldn’t shoot their magnums, but I also really doubt they’d have been that much better with a 223.

I have killed elk with a 300 Win mag, a 308 Norma mag, a 30/378 Weatherby mag and two 300 H&H mag and also with 3 different 308s.
The longest shots of any of the rifles listed above were actually made with my Mossberg MVP 308 with the lightest bullets, WW 150 grain Power Points. (not planned that way, but that's how it worked out) Those kills were made by myself and my wife at just shy of 400 yards.
All my kills with the various 300 mags have been made at 275 yards and less, with one made with the 300 Win mag at only 30 yards.
So the ones made at super close range with the magnums were easy to get good hits with. The 3 different 308s I have used are a Smith Enterprises M14, an FN-FAL and the Mossberg MVP. The M14 was loaded with 180 grain Round Nose bullets made by Hornady. The FAL was loaded with 165 grain Nosler Partitions and the MVP was loaded with 150 grain Winchester Power Points and 165 grain Nosler partitions. One elk killed wiuth the FAl, 2 with the M14 and 6 with the MVP 3 by me and 3 by my wife and one friend who borrowed it on one hunt.
The 30/378 (one elk) was loaded with a 180 grain Speer Grand Slam. The 300 Win mag (one elk) was loaded with a 180 grain Sierra. The two 300 H&Hs (4 elk) were loaded with 220 grain Hornady, 190 grain Hornady and 200 grain Nosler partitions. My 308 Norma (2 elk) was used with a 165 grain Hornady and a 180 grain Nosler Partition.

So the problem with any comparison of a 300 mag VS a 308 would have to be shots of near identical angles of the elk, and at the same ranges, and using the same bullets.

So I definitely can say I have done what you ask, but I doubt my results can be said to be of any real value in any valid comparison. Of the elk I have killed with those rifles, some were cows, some bulls, some as close as 30 yards and as far as 390 yards, some moving, some standing, and in the whole bunch there were also bullets of several makers and weights of 150 165 180 190 200 and 220.
Some dropped at the shot and the one shot with the 300 Win Mag at only 30 yards went about 75 yards before he dropped. In that mix I didn't add those I killed with 30-06s (5) and one with a 300 Savage.
So I think it's not good to give advice on the question as asked. Far better to say what bullets to use and also to ask about your hunting style and hunting location.

What I can say without reservation, is that the 308 is just fine for elk hunting. Obviously so are the 300 mags. But we are told all the time that the 308 is only good up close, or that it's not going to "put them down" as well as a 300 and in my 50 years of hunting and guiding I can say those statements are simply not based in reality. A 30 cal bullet of good construction, even fired from a lowly 308 (or a 300 savage) will go clear through, break bones, and exit ----------and kills elk just fine. All the dedicated 300 mag shooters I ever knew were confident in their 300s and with good reasons, but none I know have actually killed vary many elk with 308s, 300 Savages, 303 British, 8X57, 7X57, 7-08, 6.5X55 and a whole bunch of others too, so their idea that they have "the best tool" is not actually based on knowledge, but far more of what they believe the other cartridges would do. In other words, they guess. 300 and 338 shooter DO have excellent arms for elk. But to say they do better then some other cartridge , they would have to have seen 15-50 others shot with each of those other cartridges to know without doubt that X is "better" then Y.

I have done it and seen it about 5-6 times more than I have done it and I am not guessing. I know what I know, and I admit there are a lot of bullet and cartridges I don't know, but I can make some guesses too. Many I have shot myself and about 5X more I have seen shot by friends, family members and clients. When I write something as a fact it's a fact. I ALWAYS tell my opinions but make sure I write it as an opinion. All my educated guesses are exactly that................guesses.
But when I say that I shot X at Y angle at Z range with Q bullet and the bullet hole was like thus and such... you can bank on that being the truth. If I see it several times in a row I assume it is going to be like that most times. One shot on one elk is not a pattern.

Seeing a similar behavior with a round over 5 to maybe 15 kills is how you learn what to expect. I started killing elk when I was 9. That was 54 years ago. In those 54 years I have shot a lot more, and as a guide or sub-guide as well as just a friend of MANY other hunters, I am betting (and not exaggerating) I have seen hundreds and hundreds of them killed. As a sub-guide working for outfitters in 5 different states it was very common for me to be in on the killing of anywhere from 6 to 20 per year . Over a span of a half century.

300 Mags work very well. That's a fact. Not just an opinion.
So do 308s and that's also a fact. Not just an opinion.

You can have rather poor results with any rifle if your placement of the bullet is poor, and also if the bullet doesn't go through in a fairly straight line when it hits perfectly, yet veers off course inside, or breaks up and doesn't go very deep. My 30 yard kill with my old 300 Win Mag is one such kill. The shot was only 30 yards and the elk went into a very deep and very steep gully totally choked with alder brush and even though it only went about 75 yards after the hit it took me 45 minutes to find him. 180 grain bullet, but what I recovered weighed 37 grains and was an empty jacket. That bullet hit dead center of the chest, but turned about 45 degrees and took out the back of the lung on the other side and went down the body into the paunch even though the elk was not facing in that direction. It broke up because the shot was too close for such a load in my opinion, and the velocity of that hit was too high for the bullet to hold together. Bad choice of gun? NO! It was a M70 in 300 Win Mag. I was young then and wanted to believe what I read, so I thought a long range load and bullet would be fine if I had to use it at close range. And yes, I got my bull. But I am 100% certain if I had used that bullet at a slower speed (as in from a 308) I would have done better, or if I had used a tougher bullet with the "old fashioned flat base, thick jacket and "poor long range flight abilities" I would also have done better. My longest range elk kills have all been with "poor flyers", (lower BCs ) yet all of them were quick and human kills with short runs, and one with no run.

What is a fact is that 308 should be loaded with a bullet that doesn't break up easily for elk hunting. The same is true (even more so) with all the 300s. Loaded with bullet that don't break up a 308, 30-06, 300 Magnum 303 British, 300 Savage, or for that matter, a 6.5MM or 270 or 7X57 all drop elk with real authority, and when they run after a hit they run a very short distance.

It's also a fact that poor bullets kill. There is no way to "bless an elk" and "do it good" by shooting them.... with anything.

But the best performance is always going to be from good bullets over time and involving a lot of kills if you shoot enough elk to see the patterns develop, over decades of experience. All bullets can do weird things occasionally. Even the very best ones. But the best bullets do odd and objectionable things FAR less then the others.

Even the worst bullets kill well if they hit the heart or break the neck. So to say one is "bad' and another is "good" you have to see them used several dozen times at various ranges and angles to see any valid pattern.

Looking at the facts I wrote about above about my kills from all my 308s and all my 300s, you can see that there is still not enough info there to make a valid case. There were too many variables.

So that is why I droll on about the hunts I have been on where others have done the killing. In seeing many hundreds of kills I can argue a pattern for certain bullets, but in my 50+ years of killing elk I can't say that a 308 is really a worse choice for elk killing then a 300.
Use a good bullet and take the rifle you shoot best. If you shoot a 308 better then you do a 300 mag they YOU are going to do a LOT better with your 308.

The kill is 98% about how you do, and 2% about what you do it with. Forget about getting the best elk gun and concentrate on being the best elk hunter.

I am joining the conversation with another tidbit. I am a lady, all my elk, and that's not all that many, have been taken with a 300 winmag. At first, that's all I had, a long and heavy BAR inherited from my dad, and then a bolt action with a short (12 1/2") LOP that fits me well. Every elk died. One had to be tracked, I bring that up to say that it was not the bullet, or distance, or rifle... that it was me... I hit it badly, a liver hit, and fine big cow that we did recover. I can't blame anything about that but my out of breath hurried shot. I agree with szihn and saddlesore. The hunter, and his choice of bullet for the job, and the limitations of the hunter, are the biggest variables in the equation. I do a lot of hunting with a 7/08 now, and everything has DRT. I have not elk hunted with it, and should I get to go out west again I will take the 300. Having a rifle that fits you, while LOP is not a big factor for a lot of folks, it is a complete necessity for me, and once I got enough $ to get a rifle that I could cut down ( I was NOT chopping up my dad's Belgium Browning, lol) the fit made much more difference than the caliber. I had a great friend, a cultivated lady that had exquisite command of the kings English, she took in the neighboorhood of 30 elk in her career, all shot with a 270, all easily recovered. She was a cool and collected methodical shot, with excellent ability to limit her shots to the ones that she considered optimal. I think she could have hunted with anything!

Kings English. Laughing on that one.

So my take, with zero elk ever shot at. Its just like anything else.

Right bullet in the right place.

The problem comes with another poster, how often do you hunt , how far travel, what shots are you willing to take or not take?

Its all in the above that it gets covered. You simply don't take a shot you are not 200% confident in. 308 will technically allow less angle and less range. Though given the right conditions and my choice of bullet, I'd not hestitate in the right conditions to take an elk on with my 308 at a distance I won't type.

That said the mags with correct bullet tend to give one a bit more leeway in penetration, sometimes in bullet drop, and often in wind drift, though not always. Up to a point more bullet always gets deeper and thats a thing to think on if you aren't willing to travel a long way and pay big dollars only to see the south end of a northbound trophy and not shoot.

Mostly these days I'm willing to pass up a shot at anything at any distance if not comfortable and go home totally happy. Either conditions or such or I made a choice of to light of a round for the any situation kind of thing.

The very first thing to consider to me is can you shoot the gun and really deal with the recoil? If so carry on. Second thing is bullet choice and I'm just about 2000% sold on TTSX for about any and all uses except really long shots.. there I might defer back to the bergers we shoot quite often. Simply due to an accuracy thing PLUS either hunting or target I've never seen what I call a failure from a Berger for years now.

There is no shame on going down in recoil until you can handle a round. That said a suppressor is a big friend in shootability on many guns, if its not to long, big and heavy and you can afford it and its legal where you hunt.

Good luck!

Well, this page was very interesting and informative. Thanks to those who participated.

Kill an elk with either out to ranges you will likely never get to...

OH SGT stupid again!!

Whatever...

if you are a little recoil shy as some are get the 308 Win.
if your not recoil shy the 300 Win. Mag. is the better choice for distance. >its your money and your decision. Pete53

If you got a horse to carry your rifle, get the 300 WM. If you gotta carry it yourself up and down a mountain, a lighter more compact 308 might be less cumbersome.

Very well put !

Thanks for all the responses, keep them coming.

Ralphie and Szihn both mentioned bullet choice for magnums. For whatever reason I’ve had some very close shot opportunities for elk, and if I’m shooting a bullet faster than about 2900 or 3000 fps I want a tough bullet, Scirocco, Accubond, Partition, TTSX, others etc.

Below 2900 fps more bullets work well. I still prefer heavy for caliber.

I’ve killed elk with a 30-06, 50 cal muzzleloader, and 7 Mashburn. They all work. If I had to pick I would pick the Mashburn because I have 2 that I really like.

One of the guys I used to hunt with used a .308 model 100 Win... His standard method for shooting elk was shoot 2 or three times through the lungs as quickly as he could...

You summed up the Campfire pretty well.

I'd like to see a factory 30-06 that weighs less than the same mfgs 300 wsm.