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I’m looking for knowledge. I have 9 Winchester’s calibers I have collected and displayed, all unfired and received in original Box. Calibers range from 410ga to most of the smaller calibers running through 44mag & 357mag. I also bought new guns to shoot in calibers I enjoy at the same time, namely 45 Colt, 32 Special and 22 magnum. The serial numbers have them being built in the range of 1992-2005. I’m far from rough with these “shooters” in the field, in fact they are babied. Every single one has been extremely rough when levering through the cycle, I put this off as a new rifle needing to be broke in and should smooth out action wise after say 4-5 boxes of shells. None improved and 3 had to go into local gunsmith that has always fixed every problem I have taken him, all 3 had the firing pin break, my favorite a 45 case colored Trapper needed 3 new pins which he said was a tedious repair. I have 13 Browning BLR’s, all have been smooth as silk out of the box with zero problems. Browning calibers range from 218 Bee to 450 Marlin, all feel the same through the cycle. I literally love the Browning. Love the Winchester’s more sentimental wise, but sorely disappointed with craftsmanship. Today I Was checking out the various makers checking on new offerings. I stumble on the Winchester’s and the receiver now looks like the Browning’s on top with those 2 silver rectangle parts on either side. Has some one new taken over production and improved quality? I would absolutely love a 45-70 as my Browning 450 Marlin stomps the snot out of me and is no joy to shoot when practice is needed for a big game Hunt. I’m thinking the 45-70 should be like the 45 Colt as far as using less explosive powder and therefore have a more tolerable practice round. I know the 45-70 is a much larger round than the 45 but the powder used in the earlier shells should produce much less recoil. Am I off base? Recoil has been a non event all my life until I met the 450 Marlin, but that damn thing wants to fight every time I take it out and I know I flinch even with a good limb saver. Thank you and appreciate any help.
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Joined: Sep 2015
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No Winchester collectors have input, I was hoping this was the right place, guess not
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Somebody with more experience will be along. All the Winchesters I own are pre 64s, I've not handled the newer ones.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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I am not a Winchester collector but the 45 Colt is a pistol cartridge, the 45-70 will have recoil more like the 450 Marlin. It will get your attention and then some.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Drover That’s funny! The 450 is the modern version of the 45-70 in my eyes, but my understanding is the powder in most store bought shells in 45-70 is different for example than Hornady Lever loads for 450 Marlin. I fully understand that the 45-70 is going to pack a punch recoil wise, but is should be 50%-70 of the 450 recoil. At least that’s what I am hoping.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 149
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The 450 Marlin is a relatively new cartridge (15 years old or better ?). The 45/70 is a much older cartridge, dating back to 1870 +/- and black powder , so there are many old 45/70 rifles that are not safe to shoot using higher pressure loads that modern 45/70 rifles, or the 450 Marlin use. Factory 45/70 ammunition (unless otherwise stated on the box) is loaded rather mildly because of the many older and potentially unsafe rifles still around. I don't have my reloading manuals handy right now, but if I remember correctly, a Marlin 45/70 rifle can safely handle loads up to 40,000 cup. I may be mistaken, but I believe standard factory 45/70 ammunition is around 18,000 cup. Factory 45/70 ammunition, such as Buffalo Bore, Corbon, etc., are only safe in modern rifles, and the boxes state this clearly as well. While I don't load or shoot a 45 Colt rifle, I do shoot and reload 45/70 and to compare a 45/70 to a 45 Colt is apples and oranges.
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How anyone can read my original post and believe that I’m asking about the recoil difference between a Colt 45 and a 45-70, they are mentally handicapped. The dumbing down of America is real. Vic, thank you. That’s what I thought about the powder too. I was looking for validation of my thinking.
Still searching for information regarding new sourcing of production for the Winchester Lever rifles at the 2020 Shot show. The receiver now looks like a Browning BLR receiver.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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I did read your post, thoroughly. Guess I "misunderstood".
Suggest you focus on the subject and not get personal !!
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No sir Vic, you answered my question. I thanked you and meant it. Your suggestion is off target!
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Joined: Sep 2015
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I’m looking for knowledge. I have 9 Winchester’s calibers I have collected and displayed, all unfired and received in original Box. Calibers range from 410ga to most of the smaller calibers running through 44mag & 357mag. I also bought new guns to shoot in calibers I enjoy at the same time, namely 45 Colt, 32 Special and 22 magnum. The serial numbers have them being built in the range of 1992-2005. I’m far from rough with these “shooters” in the field, in fact they are babied. Every single one has been extremely rough when levering through the cycle, I put this off as a new rifle needing to be broke in and should smooth out action wise after say 4-5 boxes of shells. None improved and 3 had to go into local gunsmith that has always fixed every problem I have taken him, all 3 had the firing pin break, my favorite a 45 case colored Trapper needed 3 new pins which he said was a tedious repair.
Has some one new taken over production and improved quality? I would absolutely love a 45-70 as my Browning 450 Marlin stomps the snot out of me and is no joy to shoot when practice is needed for a big game Hunt.””””””””””””’👍👍👍👍👍 I’m thinking the 45-70 should be like the 45 Colt as far as using less explosive powder “”””””””””and therefore have a more tolerable practice round.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍”””””’”””✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️ I know the 45-70 is a much larger round than the 45 but the powder used in the earlier shells should produce much less recoil. Am I off base? ✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️Recoil has been a non event all my life until I met the 450 Marlin, but that damn thing wants to fight every time I take it out and I know I flinch even with a good limb saver. Thank you and appreciate any help.
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Someone tries to help and your response is insults??
Less "explosive" powder...from someone as smart as you???
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And Texas tries to step in. With nothing to add but attitude. No thanks
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Please explain how a less “explosive” powder would help.
Last edited by southtexas; 02/04/20.
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Big attitude leading, will stay unlearning.
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I’m looking for knowledge. I have 9 Winchester’s calibers I have collected and displayed, all unfired and received in original Box. Calibers range from 410ga to most of the smaller calibers running through 44mag & 357mag. I also bought new guns to shoot in calibers I enjoy at the same time, namely 45 Colt, 32 Special and 22 magnum. The serial numbers have them being built in the range of 1992-2005. I’m far from rough with these “shooters” in the field, in fact they are babied. Every single one has been extremely rough when levering through the cycle, I put this off as a new rifle needing to be broke in and should smooth out action wise after say 4-5 boxes of shells. None improved and 3 had to go into local gunsmith that has always fixed every problem I have taken him, all 3 had the firing pin break, my favorite a 45 case colored Trapper needed 3 new pins which he said was a tedious repair. I have 13 Browning BLR’s, all have been smooth as silk out of the box with zero problems. Browning calibers range from 218 Bee to 450 Marlin, all feel the same through the cycle. I literally love the Browning. Love the Winchester’s more sentimental wise, but sorely disappointed with craftsmanship. Today I Was checking out the various makers checking on new offerings. I stumble on the Winchester’s and the receiver now looks like the Browning’s on top with those 2 silver rectangle parts on either side. Has some one new taken over production and improved quality? I would absolutely love a 45-70 as my Browning 450 Marlin stomps the snot out of me and is no joy to shoot when practice is needed for a big game Hunt. I’m thinking the 45-70 should be like the 45 Colt as far as using less explosive powder and therefore have a more tolerable practice round. I know the 45-70 is a much larger round than the 45 but the powder used in the earlier shells should produce much less recoil. Am I off base? Recoil has been a non event all my life until I met the 450 Marlin, but that damn thing wants to fight every time I take it out and I know I flinch even with a good limb saver. Thank you and appreciate any help. Winchester ceased US production of the model 94 in 2006. Since then, newly manufactured lever action rifles are made by Miroku in Japan. The action of a model 94 is very different from the BLR, and they're separated by about 60 years. As for any grit in the action, I don't get that. Starting around 1985 Winchester 94's were mostly CNC milled. It has been my experience that post 1985 rifles have VERY smooth actions. As for the parts breakage...Yeah... For some reason that someone probably knows but I don't, seems Winchester 94 firing pins have a higher rate of breakage beginning sometime in the 1990's. Another very commonly broken part is the shell riser. This wasn't an uncommon problem with even pre-64 rifles, but the pre-64's didn't break shell risers like the milled shell risers in the post 1985 CNC rifles. Winchester actually fixed this problem once and (they thought) for all in 1964. The stamped shell riser didn't have the weak point shoulder that the milled part had. But it looked cheap and the public just wasn't having it, forcing Winchester to eventually abandon it and go back to milled.
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Thank you GunGeek, Very good information and much appreciated. My Win. 45 does in fact does have the shell riser problem, I put that off to the weak casing of the 45 rifle shells. I have to “pause” my levering cycle at the point of ejection and allow the shell riser to raise the next shell before I can complete the cycle. I believe I will give the Miroku made a try in the 45-70 chamber and the new 45 Trapper Takedown in Case color. They are beautiful to my eye. Thanks again!
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