Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Crossbow Recs 2.1 and Done -- Broadheads

After watching a few on fleabay, it seems reasonable to hope that I can get a good one, with some of the gear, for 600$. Obviously I'm a noob, so will bore ya'll with only one crossbow-specific question: is there anything about a crossbow's higher speed that makes broad heads different than for regular archery? The short axis of the Excel Micro line is pretty appealing.

My lifetime bow has been an Matthews MQ32, which is not especially speedy. Bowhunting is always a short ranged proposition for me due to tactics. My farthest shot is 32 yards, most were inside of 20. I've been using the old style of Muzzy replaceable blade heads for over 20 years. I like the older ones rather than the shorter-bladed models. Been using 100-grainers. Never had a deer jump the string, which is pretty hard to do at 15 yards

With crossbow accuracy, it seems reasonable to think I could extend range to 50 yards without much trouble, which would be pretty helpful on some water hole hunts. Any reason to think the same broached isn't good? Really don't care about a few feet per second, and don't expect an arrow to penetrate bone shoulders with any broadhead. My first shot is always through the ribs, and have only needed a second shot once. These requirements seem pretty relaxed to me.

Is the Muzzy still a good choice? And do I need 125's now?

Tks,

J

I like mechanical heads I shoot a few with fixed heads, but more cut just always equals more blood. Fixed heads have shown me that they can be capable of planing when they come of a bow that is spitting them out with that much force, and I could not fully compensate even by going to very stiff arrows. If you are serious about shooting beyond 20 yards you need to be prepared for deer to jump the string. They can do it even at 330 FPS and 20 yards. If you go beyond 20 I would plan on it happening and shoot a heavy arrow with a tip that will punch bone like a Rage Hypodermic. The regular Rage crossbow head will not reliably punch bone. I have pinned a whole boned out front leg and shoulder to a block target and shot it a bunch of time to see what really goes on. Shoulder blades are crumbly bone and even the regular Rage head will penetrate it nicely Hard bone like humerus and radius/ulna or the ball of the joint will fold up an aluminum ferrule. I had a NAP Thunderhead that penetrated a couple ribs on they way in and went through the chest and hit the off side ball of the shoulder joint on a live deer, not bone pinned to a target. That one split the ball into three pretty equal pieces and 8 of inches of arrow came out. If you shoot 20 yards and more you will get some that jump the string and then you cannot begin to predict where the hit lands. The standard 3 blade Muzzy is a good head. NAP Thunderheads are good. Rage mechanicals are good. The new Rage Xtreme can produce outstanding blood trails, but they are not legal everywhere, and wouldn't work so well if you hit more bone than ribs.

The total weight has to be enough to avoid damage to your bow. The manual should have that figure. If no manual, call them, or look online once you have one.

I bought the Muzzy 125s because I have a nice, undeployed mechanical I cut out of a buck I shot with a ML. He carried that for a year, along with about 2" of shaft. Also, Muzzys are reasonable in price. Four dead deer with massive trangular entrance holes agree. I'm sure other heads work well too, but I have no reason to change. Mine shoot straight and to the same POI as field tips.

Excalibur recommends a 150 grain head - I run their “Bolt cutter” model head. We’ve taken one elk, and several deer with these between Idaho, VA, and PA.

While not perfect for everyone - we’ve had good results.

I’d like a bigger blood trail, but we haven’t lost anything, or had to track very far.

I personally wouldn’t drop below 125 grains - you have to balance the force of the limbs against the weight of the bolt. Too light, and it’s creeping towards a dry-fire type reaction.

A 50 yard shot probably could be made, doesn’t mean you should...

You have to work at it to get below minimum arrow weight with Excalibur bows. The ones I have seen from the Matrix series have a minimum arrow weight of 350 grains. That's not all that easy to get to even with 100 grain heads.

I will be using these Hellrazors on the recommendation of a few crossbow users.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W8KTIS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Most queried said to not use the mechanicals.

Check out Crossbow Nation

Thank you kindly! Glad to see solid results from several types. I’ll stay within Excalibur’s recommendations. It’s always sobering to observe the devastation from a broad head through the slats. No boom from a rifle, and the deer never has time to figure out WTF is going on

Damn things scare me to death. Out of the four shots I've taken, I only recovered one bolt. They just keep on going. Last one I shot was at dusk. It was awesome watching that glowing nock zing in there (never to be seen again).

Hunting in mild weather has its points too, but as a recovering compound shooter you already know that.

My son shoots the 3-blade 100 gr Muzzy's out his TenPoint and they have performed well on several large whitetail bucks. You should be fine trying those.

I have been shooting the original slick tricks since the inventor was selling them out of his garage. They are tough, and have not given me any problems with erratic flight from 3 different ten point crossbows. Excellent blood trails. I am not a fan of adding points of failure (mechanical broadheads) to a situation. I have tried a dozen or so different broadheads, including a couple mechanical but always went back to the slick tricks. Whatever you choose, any imperfection will show up at the speeds you will be shooting.

Speaking of slick tricks I don't know what to think. Last year when I bought my first crossbow I decided to give them a try. Ordered the 125 grain standard model and when they arrived I could not get the blades into the slots in the ferrules. Called the factory and they sent me 4 new ones that were perfect. On November 2 I shot a very nice 8 point and every thing was good. Last week I decided to buy 4 more from Amazon. When they arrived the same thing happened except 3 were bad and one was ok. This time when I called the factory they told me to send them back for a refund which I did. Think I'll try something else. By the way other reviewers on Amazon had the same problem with the 125 grain standards.

I can’t prove it, but the internet rumor was for a while that a distributor for Amazon slipped a quantity of Asian copies into the market.

Packaging was close enough that by the time you figured it out, it was too late to return, or the seller was gone.

eBay has dozens of Rage knock-offs for sale at any given time.

I use the 100gr slick tricks. Zero problem. Been using them with my 10point for about 6 years. Plus, they shoot the same as my field trips so I don't have to waste a broadhead to check zero. Very happy how they work on deer and turkey.

Many rave the Slick Tricks ...

I'm also a Slick Trick user.

Holy crap MQ32 was many many moons ago ...that was the worst shooting of all the Mathews bows I've owned but the first one, Shoot their latest offering just for fun and you may reconsider the cross bow...it will be much quieter than a Xbow and 50 yds isn't a stretch for one of the new line

this was my first year with a x-bow there is no doubt x-bows are some what easier to use,but when we have poorer health its our best chance to hunt a little in the fall. i purchased a Ravin x-bow to hunt with and its extremely fast and powerful so the best most accurate broadhead i found to use was some older mechanical broadhead called > steelhead 125 gr. work just fine on a nice buck at 30 yards.i did put 2 bands on this broadhead instead of one so it did not open to soon.

Rocket Steelheads were probably the best mechanical I used them till I switched over to fixed

this Ravin x-bow is fast and fixed broadheads don`t shoot well out of this x-bow and i don`t like to load fixed broadheads in this x-bow either i get cut to easy in this x-bow.

I actually saw a broadhead shot thru a deer and it was really torn up. I am thinking it was a 400 FPS+ bow . Made by Slick trick,.

The most damage to the chest contents of a deer that I have seen so far with a crossbow was done by a Rage X-treme. It looked like a rifle bullet went through the chest. One lung completey deflated and tore up. The other 1/3 deflated. The arrow went through the heart top to bottom and then exited Bambi. The deer was down and dead in <4 seconds. The blood trail was 4 feet wide but for the last 10 feet or so where it appeared to be out of blood. I think I posted pictures of the heart and chest here somewhere.

Any idea what the crossbow speed ?

Between 320 and 330 FPS, but speed has almost nothing to do with damage when it comes to cutting.

I was told that above 400 the broadhead has to be a little more stout. That was hearsay from someone I spoke to.

I seriously doubt that speed has as much to do with it as momentum.

I pinned a fresh boned out deer front leg to a block target and then proceeded to shoot it at 20 yards with my crossbow. I found that even with aluminum ferrule broad heads (like Rages) I could shoot through a shoulder blade every time if I didn't shoot the ridge of the blade. If I shot the ridge of the blade the tip may or may not fold up and the arrow would deflect some almost every time. If I shot the flat part of the shoulder blade it would go through in a straight line and I had no instances of folding the tip up. Steel ferrule heads with sharp points pretty much just went through. If I shot the leg bones Humerus/Tib/fib/ball joint of the humerus to scapula only the steel ferrule heads with sharp points went through without a lot of deflection and damage to the head. The Rage heads in particular fared quite poorly.

One deer I shot was broadside and I double lunged it. The deer jumped the string a little and the head centered the ball joint of the off side shoulder and cut it into three almost equal sized pieces and proceeded 8 inches out then stopped. The entrance cut a couple ribs on that side. This was a 100 grain NAP Thunderhead on a very heavy FMJ arrow with a total head and arrow weight of 490 grains.

That kind of weight behind the tip places a lot of stress on the tip and depending on what they have to cut, maybe the blades as well. I have bent blades beyond usable in deer and in my testing.

My conclusions from a bunch of testing and a bunch of deer are that since deer can jump the string at 20 yards with a 330 FPS bow a heavy arrow with a lot of momentum is about all the insurance you can get against that eventuality. Sturdy broadheads with steel ferrules are better than those with aluminum ferrules. Because all of the blood in a deer has to make the trip through the lungs, and the lungs are extremely vascular, a double lung shot is pretty effective. But, the lungs are protected by ribs and ribs are hard and springy. I have seen ribs deflect bullets enough times to wish that I didn't have to contend with them. My setup where I shoot deer presents me with very close dead on facing me shots pretty often. With relaxed deer at such short range a shot placed below the neck and above the sternum is very safe and it has always thus far hit the heart and at least one lung. Not a shot I would advise for most people, but if you have a crossbow with a rest and the requisite accuracy it is a very good one. I have killed 8-10 deer with that shot and had 100% exits. I do not do that beyond 15 yards.

I have wrecked blades on ribs a lot more than any other bone but I rarely hit other bone. >039 blades are not sturdy enough. Given a choice I would like to see a head with 2 sets of 2 inch blades of .050 thickness or better for a crossbow. Most crossbows have the power to drive them through at 15-20 yards. A Rage Hypodermic with a total of 4 inches of cut would come pretty close to my desires. The extra weight will help, not hurt.

Thanks for that information. The bow I am interested in is a Mission Sub-1 , I think it shoots 350 with a 400 grain arrow.

For mech heads, they have to be able to take the shock of the launch, and not pop a blade(s) open in flight - there's less shaft flex in the short bolt to absorb the energy.

Over 350 FPS, this "generally" starts to show up - Miles has it right - steel ferrules, and thicker blades will hold up better at the higher speeds and heavier bolt weights.

Most of the expandable vendors now have a "crossbow" labeled broadhead package now.

Been looking at these. sevr broadheads

I have shot about 3/4s of the deer I kill with arrows using mechanical heads. I have never seen evidence of any of them opening at launch, nor of any blade being open when it hit. But...That does not mean it did not happen. The heads I use the most, Rages and NAP Spitfire Doublecross are designed to open when hitting the hide and if they work as designed they should show open blades on the hide, entrance side. 100% of mine have shown that. Unless the opening of a blade(s) showed an obvious change in arrow flight, it is doubtful I would notice it. It is also doubtful anyone else could notice it either. I can see the possibility of the Rages with their shock collar opening if the shooter didn't have them properly aligned and tightened. Being as I shoot an Excalibut Matrix 330, when I pull the trigger the arrow is subject to the maximum acceleration at that time. I would assume if I were going to see it that I should have had a decent chance of doing so with all the testing I do. So, either it doesn't happen very often, it is not of much consequence or it takes a much heavier recurve bow to begin to make it happen.

I think that the weakness of aluminum ferrules is a much bigger problem.

The two best bloodtrails, start to finish, I have ever seen were from the Rage X-tremes this year. It is pretty normal for deer not to put blood on the ground for 10 to 30 yards after they have been hit. Both of these had blood from where they stood and one had a very respectable spray pattern on the off side. If a bow cannot launch a 500 grain arrow at close on 300 FPS I might be a little leery of using heads that big though. I always want two holes in Bambi. It takes an awful lot of bow to do that with a vertical bow though.

with respect about vertical bows ,i only hunt big whitetail bucks in Minnesota but here are my findings with hand sharpened fixed broadheads like a Zwickey Eskimo. when i have made the shot thru the rib cage my arrow goes right thru the buck and sticks in the frozen ground even at 50 lbs going around 230 fps. hand sharpened broadheads that have been correctly sharpened go deeper,cut animals very cleanly and do put alot of blood on the ground too. now that i use a new mechanical broadhead i resharpen them before i use them,new muzzy broadheads are one of the few broadheads that don`t need to be resharpened before you use them,but still should be checked for sharpness.

Never shot a mechanical, and have a concern with them. It's physics -- the wider the cut diameter, the less penetration, all things being equal. The force of delivery is a constant. I really don't care if I get an exit wound with a rifle. I really want one with a bow, if possible, as it is a blood-trail game (frequently). As I've never taken a shot past 32 yards, and the majority have been within 22 yards, accuracy in flight has never been a problem with fixed heads. However, since a crossbow is definitely in my future, everything is changing. It's dry here, so water hole hunting is an important resource. In the east, it was always a thicket proposition. I've never shot an archery animal in a field or meadow. It would be nice to get 50 yard confidence, which would have to come from experience. To me that's groups the size of a saucer.

Here's why I want two holes -- the biggest deer I ever killed, from a trophy perspective, was shot almost straight down between the shoulder blades. Matthews MQ32 with 100-grain Muzzy fixed. It ran like a bat out of hell. If the broached had not barely penetrated the brisket, there would not have been a blood trail. Distance about 13 yards. Of course a modern crossbow would have blown through him like the wind, but that didn't happen.

Looking forward to learning new things and making some meat this fall, as my AZ draws and AK draws are coming up ZERO (grrr).

Broadhead, you autocorrect basted.

Talus i agree a fixed blade broadhead works better but my x-bow with 125 gr. Mechanical broadheads goes 380 fps so i can`t get a fixed blade broadhead to be consistent out of my x-bow,plus sharp fixed blade broadheads are very hard for me to load and unload in my Ravin x-bow,i seem to cut my fingers with a sharp fixed blade with my old fingers.so i am stuck using a x-bow and mechanical broadheads now days at my age ,bad rebuilt shoulders,and beat up old fingers . i too want 2 holes thru the buck i shoot always !

I shot a nice doe in 2017 that was at a very steep down angle. I was aiming for a heart shot. When she moved just a little the shoulder blade moved enough that a blade from the broad head, a NAP Spitfire Double cross got about 1/4 inch of the shoulder blade and then the head got a couple ribs. The deer made it 50 yards and bled but a single drop before the end Where she went down everything was red within 10 feet of her. I mean everything and not just a little red either. That little slice through the shoulder blade made for no exit hole and until she went down and lashed around a bit there was no way for blood to get out. That can happen with any head.

I have only had one other deer with a single hole, but she did not matter because she went down inside of six feet from where she stood.

Even with the power available with a cross bow, even with the speed available with a crossbow even at 20 yards, Bambi can still move enough to cause you to hit bone other than rib. Better, always better, to have a sturdy enough head and enough arrow weight behind it to drive that arrow well because you do not always get to choose if Bambi will move or not. Beyond 30 yards there is ample time for a deer to turn a shot from ANY bow into a problem.

I have a koda bow with a Excalibur micro limbs front end. I shoot the short Excalibur bolts with the fixed 100 grain F 16 or was it F-16 broadheads. When they were being discontinued I bought every one I could find. I think trigger performance and how quiet the bow shoots are most important. How easy and quietly it cocks is important. Then how easy and or fun it is to pack around. Takedowns help when packing in or horseback. ( mules 4 me thank you)


I also have a Ravin R -9 that shoots Raven bolts and the same 100 grain F -15/16s.

I also shoot a Hoyt Rampage with the F 15/16

The performance has been impressive. I think the blade foreword design over the trochar tip really helps slice the hide open, and save energy for penetration. The double bleeders make a hole that won't seal as easily so marginal hits can be tracked.

I gut shot a buck in fresh snow this year, and was able to recover the animal. Tracked it over two miles I suspect. If it wasn't for my Nebo 600 lumen light, and the hole the F-16/15 broadhead removed from the deer. I don't think I would have found it.
This was not the first time the F 16/15 allowed me to harvest a marginal hit. IMO.