Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR .50-90 Shiloh

Thinking that I need a .50-90 from Shiloh. I have had Shilohs in several .40 cal, .44 cal and .45 cal but no .50 cals. It will be strictly for hunting and an attention getter at the local range every now and then but not planning on competition shooting. I am thinking a heavy octagon in a Hartford with steel butt plate might satisfy me for now. I had a .50-70 in a Remington Rolling Block and it was fun but it didn’t make me happy like the Shilohs do. Any tips?

I once had a Farmingdale Shiloh in 50-90.
It was very effective on elk!
Used BP and paper patched bullets.

I like mine. Gunner500 has one also, I think. PM him for the straight scoop.

Yes EE, I have two 50-90's, pacecars, do you want a pretty rifle or a period correct buffalo rifle?

I have a #3 sporter with Schnabel forend, shotgun butt, 22 twist 30 inch #1 heavy barrel, it weighs 11 lbs and is a hell of a hunting rifle, used it to drive a 750gr grease groove bullet 9ft up into a bedded 1800lb Eland bull in Africa, also smoked a Sable bull with it at 99 yards, buckhorn barrel sights and copper penny front sight all the way.

The other is a #3 straight stocked, shotgun butt 16lb bull barrel rifle, it has a pewter cap and 32 inch 22 twist barrel, wears a Hoke rear tang sight and Distant Thunder front sight, use it and 705gr paper patch bullets here at the farm on gongs out to 500 yards, just fired a five shot group at 400 yards that measured 2x3.5 inches, and a five shot group at 500 yards that went 5x6.5 inches, these damn things are a blast!

It's wet and rainy here, have a gong set at 700 yards up on the mountain, have the stand strapped to the ATV, soon as the rain lifts i'll take the stand, chain and s hooks up with a couple cans of paint and get it ready.

dam gunner that sounds like fun

It's more than fun 44, it's an addiction!

i bet it is lol

Yessir, from the beginning of drawing out on paper then ordering a custom bullet mold, to selecting or making up an alloy, to heating up the lead pot and casting a hundred bullets, to getting or cutting the paper patches, to rolling them on, to developing an accurate load, getting it zeroed for the hunt.

All the way to filling 6 deer tags in one year with bullets you cast, loaded and shot yourself, to setting down at a table of fried deer loin with potatoes and gravy, a fresh sliced sweet onion and two ice cold beers...........................yessir, it doesn't get any better!

dont get no better than that .a lot more enjoyable when you do all that for your self. congrats

You bet 44, just like hunting those lever actions from the ground, that's what I call the original "Ground and Pound"

lmao

I can heartily recommend the 50-90 as well. Mine is a Browning 1885 high wall BPCR and shoot it with a LBT 700 grain gas check flatpoint with AA 5744. Haven’t got anything with it yet but impressively accurate and a ball to shoot.

Any Shiloh will make me happy. Have fun.

What is the wait time now days?

It depends on if you order it through Shiloh (14+ months maybe) or through Bill Goodman (6 months or less)

I still have the pics of your bullets and rifle gunner500

Impressive gun and bullets. One of the reasons I want one. I have got to quit hanging out with people that enable my addiction!

Well crap! Ordered one through my friendly neighborhood pusher Bill Goodman, gotta take him off speed dial and lose his email! It should be here around mid June! Hartford, 32 inch polished heavy octagon barrel, 1:22 twist with full buckhorn sights, semi fancy wood, steel checkered butt plate. Time to start gathering brass and molds! Which dies are y’all using?

Dam Gunner I do Like the way you Think!

Just over 19 months and my letter came last week. For an 1874 btw.

Congrats! Details?

Thank you.

It's a #1 Sporter in 40-65. Standard half-round at 30", 7 degree lead, pewter tip, extra fancy w/ AA, and steel butt plate.


I've been considering a 50-70 or 90 for my next order.

These things are worse Lays Potato Chips. You can’t have just one

You bet 44, the real lmao's come from the bench when 705 grains of paper patched lead smacks 500 yard steel, it's a hell of a deal.

That is a hell of a bullet GJN, I shoot it in an 1886 50-110 WCF over black powder, even at a leisurely 1241 fps it's a hell of a hammer, with the Smith Ladder sight, 200 yard steel is a piece of cake, now who would have ever thought iron sight lever action rifle shooting would have been so effectively easy and accurate?

Thanks Saddlering, sounds like You and i have been blessed by the same God!

Damn right pacecars, You better be careful, I'm up to eight right now, that should cover it, let me see:???

40-65 #1 Sporter30 inch half round
44-77 #3 Sporter 30 inch #1 heavy
45-70 #3 Sporter 30 inch standard weight
45-110 #1 Sporter 16 lb 30 inch bull barrel
Original Bridgeport CT 45-110 #3 Sporter 30 inch #1 heavy
45-120 #3 Sporter 30 inch #1 heavy
50-90 #3 Sporter 30 inch #1 heavy
50-90 #3 Sporter 32 inch 16lb bull barrel

Yessir, that'll cover it for me, coyotes to deer to cape buffalo from 5 to 500 yards.

Lots of truth in this thread.

While I enjoy the modern sporting rifles as much as anyone, there's just something about casting bullets and burning the black stuff. Taking a bull in 2018 with my 45-90 was exceptionally gratifying. Having the help of Mr. Bagwell along the way has been a real blessing.

I have that exact 40-65 thin-man, it's a hell of a shooter, you're going to love it.

Damn right, Sharpsguy has saved me a chit-ton of money, aggravation and general head butting a brick wall all along the way, he's a Sharps Rifle Dictionary!

Glad to hear you're happy with it Gunner. I went back and forth with the contour. Heavy half-round vs the standard half-round. Changed to the standard at the last minute. Ohh, the things we agonize over sometimes. After humping it up some steep stuff last fall chasing a herd, better than 10 miles all told, I never wished for more weight! I guess we'll see in a few months if I made the right choice but I suspect you're spot on.

He's cost me chit-ton. Adding to the collection I mean.
Joking of course. I was already there, he just helped me over the edge.

I have learned a lot from him and Kenny Wasserburger

It'll be a shooter, and one thing about a little weight, it goes dead asleep when you lay it out in preparation for a shot, LOL on the edge, those guys have greased door mats ready to go when you show up!

Love his Whatameal. I want a double with cheese please.

I guess the 50-90 is sorta big.

Dunno if you are joking or what, but it was the darling on the Buffalo prairies for most of the big hunt. It's nickname is the "Big Fifty". In one of the most famous shots ever made, Billy Dixon shot an Indian from nearly a mile away with one essentially ending the siege of the Second Battle of Adobe Walls where the Buffalo Hunters about 30 strong stood off a mixed contingent of Southern Plains Indians IIRC, about 2,000 in number.

Nice rifle and revolver EE, yes, it's a hell of a cartridge Slim Jim, a 22 twist 50 firing 700 to 777 grain projectiles is a thing of beauty, pacecars has some pics I sent of mine with a recovered bullet after it went through 9 feet of a bedded Eland bull, I hit him in the right ham, skinner handed me the bullet from under the hid in front of the left shoulder, I ask PH what other smokeless expanding African cartridge would penetrate that far, NONE! he FLATLY stated.

Maybe pacecars will post those bullet and target pics too, it may help others that may be sitting on the fence thinking about a Big 50.

Damn enabler

Top pic is 4 at 400 yds and next is 5 at 500 yds I believe

KAL mould coming thanks to gunner500 now to call powderinc and get some Olde Eynsford powder! Half the fun is getting all the stuff ready! I just had a friend that works on x-rays give me a whole bunch more lead!

That's the big 750gr flat nosed greaser before and after 9ft of Eland, a 338 cal 210gr NPT for scale, that bullet is a hunting hammer pacecars.

LOL, top pic is closeup of 5 at 500 yards, you can see three splashed into the same grey smoke splat spot before I started to get a little vertical with shots 4 and 5, group measured 5x6.5 inches for just over MOA.
2nd pic is with the rifle and loading block of 24 hulls and a spare round left after testing, along with the 16lb bull barrel beast that put them there.
3rd pic is 5 at 400 yards, it measured 2x3.5 inches for a good bit under MOA, that's some really fun stuff when that happens!

That mould will make you a dandy pacecars and the same kind I used for the groups above in my 50, make sure that lead is not pure, if it is, you need to add 3lbs of Lyman #2 alloy to seven pounds of pure lead for every 10lbs you put in the pot, Lyman #2 can be bought and delivered by RotoMetals out of Cali, you'll need to harden those big long heavy bullets up a bit.

I believe the plates are pure lead. I will order some #2 from rotometals. I have to cut up the plates or get a REALLY BIG pot and melt them down on the fish fryer to get them down to easy to manage sizes. I guess everything is bigger for the “Big 50”

That will work pacecars, I keep a chopping ax and a creosote railroad tie out by my casting pot, Wife gave me an old canning scale for weighing my lead, with a little practice over the years, I can get pretty close whacking chunks off those 5lb bars from RotoMetals.

BTW, some of the alloys from RotoMetals can be purchased in 5lb bags of lead pellets, much easier and safer to weigh out.

So the 50-90, 100, and 110 all use the same case?

No , big Jim they don't. the 50-110 has a different base and rim diameter than the 50-2.5 Sharps. The 348 Win was based on the 50-110 case. The 50-1 3/4", 50-2.5" , and 50-3.25" cases are all on the same case rim diameter and base diameter. 50-90 & 50-100 are the same 2.5" case just different loads. mb

5 at 700 yds


Back of gong looking down to bench 700 yds away

Both courtesy of gunner500. I am looking to find somewhere to even see that far around here!

LOL pacecars, wrong pic, the first pic is the small group shot at 400 yards, 700 yard group was six shots in 10 inches.

But yes,, the second pic is correct, the bench sits to the left of the second small treeline down in the pasture.

Well crap. Tried to upload both pics at the same time and it only did the back of the target one. I didn’t pay attention when I pulled them off post image.com to see it was the older pic. OOPS. Here is the correct one

Go with it man. I am trying to make you look better!
😜

LOL, there you go, I need all the help I can get, pretty sure Quigley's milk bucket wasn't ten inches across, and he hit it three times, off hand!

Do you want a 50-90 in a single shot or a lever rifle?


I really like that lever rifle I have in 45-90.

I guess the crash dumped my response. The .50-90 is a single shot only proposition. You can get a .50-95 in an 1876 and a .50-110 Express in an 1886 but both are not near as powerful as the Sharps round

pacecars, I lost some too, I was telling Big Jim think of a 50-90 Sharps as a 2.5 inch cased 500 Nitro Express.

Think you mentioned something about that too, I have no doubt a 50-90 loaded with the right smokeless in a Ruger #1 would push the 570gr solids and softs to an easy 2150 fps, the excellent Starline brass would handle that easily.

I load H-4350 in my 500 Nitro, a powder too slow in a straight walled case, but fills the monstrous case with no fillers needed, really accurate and regulates beautifully at 2168 fps with nice lower chamber pressures for the doubles.

The only way to go is the Shiloh Sharps model 1874 although I believe Pedersoli now makes their 1874 in 50-90 and would be several hundred dollars cheaper. The quality of the American made Shiloh will be worth the extra money. Both these guns are replicas of the big buffalo rifles used to do in the Bison herds from around 1868 to about 1884 with the Montana herd being the last to go. The Winchester 1886 was never used for this because it was not around when there were significant numbers of Buffalo. Even the Winchester 1876 was late to the game and more of a hunter's gun than a market hunting gun. The '76 was chambered in rounds big enough for Buff but not approaching the size of the Sharps cartridges. I expect some were used, but nothing extensively.

The Buffalo hunt started in Kansas with converted Civil War Trapdoor Springfields in 50-70 and Remington Rolling Blocks. Soon the Sharps Conversions were the darling of the hunt and the culmination of the Sharps for Buffalo was the model 1874. The 50 caliber was a favorite early-on but by the time the hunt moved from Kansas to Texas and up through Colorado to Wyoming and the last days in Montana, the 45 caliber variants became favored.

You can outfit a Shiloh in about any configuration you want from common Business type rifles favored on the prairies to wild setups designed to wring every last modern ounce of performance out of a given cartridge.

Sounds like a good deal.

Is the 50 that much better than the big 45's?

I will admit that I like my 45-90 better than my 45-70.

Just because its bigger I guess.

Whether it is "better" or not depends on perspective. I'd guess Gunner will be back on this thread and it appears he could offer up more than many others since he has both. Sharps cartridge rifles started out as conversions that evolved into what became known as the model 1874. The cartridges they were chambered for followed a similar pattern. This is all from memory and mine may be flawed. For an excellent rundown get the Sellers book on Sharps. Frank Sellers. I met him and bought mine from him personally at some gunshow...probably in Kansas City. He looked at an original I had at the time. Its been awhile.

But the cartridges utilized followed the same pattern I talked about before. The early ones were 50-70's followed by the 45-70 and the 50 caliber got a bigger case. At the same time, others were being developed. You saw the 44-77 and 44-90 which were relatively early offerings. By 1874 the 50-90 was probably the most sought-after rifle on the plains. After the Red River War, the tribes on the southern plains were pretty much subdued and the Buffalo really were being killed off in earnest. You move up north and west into Colorado and some experimental stuff was being tried, .40 calibers and the like. I would expect this was to hold recoil down. The big, long 45's were the last and I think, some believe they were the best killers.

I think a lot of the rifles today are sold more on history and the likes of the individual buyer than what is the flat-out best killing machine. There are those who just want a Sharps and the 45-70 is by far the most popular cartridge that Sharps normally chamer-not that it's the biggest seller amongst Shiloh's and C. Sharps Arms. I have no idea what that would be. But the 45-70 will kill anything on the planet, is very available, has very available components and dies, a lot of data and can easily be loaded to levels that the recoil won't cause a trip to the chiropractor. It's also available in cheaper guns than the American made ones. But some guys just want to experience the guns and rounds used at certain points in the hunt. I haven't had one of the longer 45's but experienced people here see them as the best killers of big game.

I have had Shilohs in .40-50 SBN, .40-70 SBN, .44-77 SBN, .45-70, .45-100, .45-110 and am now waiting on the .50-90. I am one of those that want to try as many as possible and although I have not shot anything bigger than a deer or hog I have enjoyed hunting with all of them. The .40-50 would be a little light for anything bigger than deer but the rest are quite capable of taking Elk and Buffalo according to all the books on the history of Buffalo hunting. The .50-90 was said to put Buffalo down quickly but according to the sales records from Sharps there were not a whole lot of them made. I do imagine that there were probably a lot of .50-70s that had their chamber lengthened but that is an assumption that I don’t have any proof to back it up with. The big .45-110 was another very effective Buffalo caliber that was used a lot along with the .40-90 SBN in the latter part of the Buffalo era because they had a flatter trajectory allowing for longer shots. One of the reasons I want the .50-90 is curiosity and the fact that I don’t have one.

Yes EE, the 50-90 being better or best is quiet subjective imho.

Things a 50-90 is better at:

Recoil, it's going to kick the crap out of you
Uses a lot of lead, 700-750 grain bullets drain a casting pot
Uses a lot of powder, you can oddly enough put 130grs of powder in a 50-90 case.
Hard to shoot accurately due to torque and recoil
Long heavy bullets fly really well, hit damn hard and pack a hell of a lot of momentum, I for one will not deny physics.

As far as killing better, I don't know, need more research, and that will start with my big 45's on heavy game, that said, my 45-70 has shot completely through a large buffalo [bison] at 212 yards with 530gr paper patch ammo, it also took a cape buffalo and tough zebra in Africa, the 50-90 went 9ft in an Eland bull and flew through a big Sable bull like he was made of newspaper.

Even the little 40-65 has shot lengthways through two white tail deer for me.

Haha! Sounds like a sales pitch to me!



I currently load my 45-90 with 18.5 grains of Trail Boss and a 405 cast bullet.


People think I am a real tough sombitch and everyone likes seeing that Winchester yard that big ole case out of the action.


Honestly, I cant shoot much more than that due to the shape of the stock.

It's almost apples to oranges here. I assume your Winchester is a Model 1886. There were likely NO 1886's used on the Buffalo prairies since they're too new. There were likely a few 1876's, but they simply weren't the gun a Sharps or Rolling Block is when it comes to Buffalo killing. Much of this is about history and getting a feel for what it was really like shooting Buffalo for hides.

I've owned an 1886 in 45-70. It started out life as a 40-82 but was re-bored for some reason. It was an excellent gun, but not a traditional "Buffalo Gun". The 45-90 is more of the same.

I've got an 1876 in 45-75. The 45-75 isn't as powerful as the 45-70. The guns the cartridge is made around won't fire the heavy bullets a 45-70 will. A 405 grain bullet is the standard bullet for the 45-70. Shooting that with 20 more grains of Ffg would certainly flatten a Buff, but it's not all about the kill. See Gunner's posts.

I keep most of my guns in the safes but I have some guns out that I use. My 1876 is setting in a corner of the mud-room and the ammo is right here beside me on the Printer. 350 grain cast bullet with 4759 powder under it. Packs a wallop but isn't my Sharps.

I know exactly what you mean Jim, I have an '86 in 50-110 WCF, it fires a 700gr flat nosed grease groove bullet at a very mild 1240 fps with black powder, that steel crescent butt was NOT made for men like us, those cowpokes back in the day were probably 130lbs soaking wet, that sombitch frogs the hell out of a mans shoulder.

I remember buying the '86 I had at a gunshop just north of where I sit on my ass. The guy had two for sale...mine, a standard octagon barreled rifle and another, a 45-90 like Jim's, with a pewter-colored, engraved receiver. I don't remember how much that one was. Too much for a poor college student, but it wasn't a whole lot more than the one I bought. Wish I had them both now.

Its a double whammy for we with the crecent stock 1886's.


The LOP is way too short and the butt too narrow and pointy.



I bought a stock set from the Gunner a few years ago to get my 45-70 to where I could use it. Bought a wood carving kit to inlet for the tang safety. Had to take out a lot of wood.


Still use a slip on leather butt pad just to get a better LOP.



I bet a big Sharps rifle with proper stock length and design would be a dream to shoot compared to an 1886.

1 st Shiloh I ever bought was in 1991 and it was the one I all ways wanted since they started Shilohs up in Farmingdale, New Dork. Long Range Express 50-140 (3 1/4") std barrel it weighs 10 lbs and 3 oz. Full throttle loads will kill on both ends if'n you aren't ready for it. The 50 cal RCBS ppb was a favorite for years with 140 grs GOEX 1 Fg. When I started playing with more compression to get a crack instead of a boom and Cartridge grade my groups were looking better and acceptable. 50-140's are not target rifles but was able to get hits and a group at 800 yd Quigley buffalo that satisfied me. I was experimenting with multiple point compression and found it would accommodate 165 grs of Fg Goex Express. I found out that not only are there things in life you don't need to do twice but places you don't need to go once either. I can shoot it without a recoil shield but you don't want to make a habit out of that. I also found out the old Boy Scout motto" Be Prepared" is still damn good council, Extra Strength Tylenol 1/2 hr up front before you go to shooting works pretty damn good. I've shot a couple mule deer and 2 antelope as well as a full size buffalo cow with it and these days I shoot up some loads every once in awhile prior to hunting with it. Mostly I use my 40's and 45 Shilohs for target shooting these days cheaper on the pocket and easier on the body. Shoot the hell out of them, it's just plain fun and enriching. MB

I don't even want to imagine shooting a 50-140.

Even the military butt stock I sold Jim will be much more shooter friendly than the crescent butt, those damn things are brutality personified.

LOL EE, I saw a 50-140 Sharps not long ago on one of the auction sites for sale, it wore a crescent steel butt, no way in hell Friend!

Crescent steel buttplates are indeed brutal.

Yessir, I believe they were designed to be fired 'around' the ball of the shoulder muscle, I've tried that too EE, it goes against every thing I've learned about 'getting in' a rifle, just feels weird.

I shoot a custom 465 gr cast full throttle load from my 86 Win 45-90 that isn't bad however the octagon adds some additional weight for recoil counter measures from that nasty crescent..

That's a fine looking lever rifle there Woody, i'll send ya a pic of what I did with my 45-120 and buckhorn barrel sight with Bagwell built copper penny front sight at 300 yards the other day.

An old friend now departed helped get started with slug guns. One of his favorite competition rifles was .50 caliber and he shot a 800 grain dual alloy (2 piece swagged) with 200 grains of Swiss 1.5. The gun weighed near 40# but still gave you a solid thump on both ends.

pacecars, whether 40, 44, big or little 45's or the 50's, these rifles are a hoot, never a dull moment, loading, shooting and hunting with them.

Love them all. I switched up my order. I called Bill and he let me switch my order to the .50-90 Business Rifle. I have never had a round barrel

Nice, that round barrel in 50 cal will look like a truck axle! it'll be a shooter too.

Got in on a round barrel run back 2010 did not have to wait 1.5 years like normal. Rounds and bull barrels are built in batches then they go back to normal production of octagonal. You guys quit Jacking Off and call Shiloh tomorrow maybe you can have a gun in less than 6 months. I know what I'm talking about. Yeah mine is a business rifle chambered tight original style 45 2 7/8", checkered steel shotgun butt, fire blued screws, bone & charcoal finish, semi buckhorn and a 30 " heavy rd barrel with. Sling swivel studs. Normal business rifle barrel is 28" ,I asked for 30 " they said they could do that and I said will it look like the #2 Creedmoor Silhouette barrel ? And she said that's what it will be. Only made 2 mistakes that I would rectify if doing it over. 1 I'd order the polished barrel( originals were) and damned if I wouldn't tell them to hand select atleast semi fancy wood. Mine was ordered std and I got 2x4's in my wood pile with better looking figure in the wood.. I call mine the all Business Rifle cause it will work from 10' to 1 mile. MB

pacecars, did you go with a 22 twist for your new Big 50 Business rifle?

Naw, they ain't that big. .45-70 with a half and half barrel.




It just loves my elbows I guess.

My round barrel .50 2.5" isn't very heavy, nicknamed "thumper" for a reason!

Ben Forkin (Gunsmith from White Sulpher, MT) has a 50-90 Shilo Sharps, or did last I talked to him several years ago. He shot groups with it most would envy with a modern bolt action in a large caliber. He said it worked well on elk and antelope.

Nice rifle and shooting Dan.

Hello tmitch, is that a 36 twist for the 475 gr bullets, or a 22 twist for the 700 grain and up heavies? nice stick.

I'm guessing 1:22", I get around 1 revolution running a patch through the 26" barrel (23.5" of rifling). So far I've only shot 550 grain flat nosed through it and it's pretty lively on the back end. If I plan on shooting more than a couple rounds I have to put a pussy pad over that steel carbine butplate to keep my shoulder from turning pretty colors. I'd be afeared to throw a 700 grainer out of it like you do yours!

10-4, probably that big 550gr Lyman or RCBS greaser, one 50-90 weighs 16lbs with the tang sight and is very pleasant with the 715gr paper patch bullets, that said, I have an 11 pound 50-90 that chunks 750gr greasers at 1365 fps for hunting with buckhorn barrel sights, that one boots a little, but, the shotgun butt helps, I wouldn't fire it that way if it wore a military or crescent butt.

I see I didn’t answer earlier but the Business Rifle has a 1:22 twist.

Perfect, the mould I sold you will easily adjust from650 to 777 grains with 20 or 16 to 1 alloy, I ran some 777 grain paper patch bullets to 1340 fps in my 50-90, what a HAMMER!

Beautiful.

Both ends🤪?

Not on my end at 16LBS, but, your 22 twist will thrive on 650 plus grain bullets.

Not sure what the weight will be I am guessing under 11 lbs which is fine with me since it will be a hunting gun and carried a lot and shot a little at least when hunting. I do plan on shooting it for fun though and may put a lace up pad on it for that. I will want to see if it affects point of aim

Yes, and even 90 grains of FG would be fine, plenty of power to hunt anything, and much less recoil in a hunting rifle, now 115gr OE FFG under a 750gr greaser at 1365 fps boots a little in an 11 pound hunting weight rifle.

Gawd almighty.....why man why??

Me?

Haha! Yes.


115 grains under 750 grains sounds terrible!

May I ask what pad you have on it?

Hello Big Jim, above is one reason, the other reasons are many, I was told:

You don't need a 50-90...........it's always nice when others tell you what you do and do not need.
The same set of others don't want you to like what they don't like.
Others don't like a rifle they cant shoot well.
Went on to hear, the 50-90.......
Has crap brass
Uses to much lead and powder.
You cant shoot it accurately due to recoil and torque.
The 50-90 wont penetrate.
Others with deeper pockets than you have tried to get a 50-90 to work well and have failed miserably, then sold their rifles.

Well, you see, I took all that as a challenge, I couldn't help but jump on a 50-90 with both boots.
Doing a bit of math as it relates to velocity, diameter, bullet weight and twist, I drew out and designed the above 750gr grease groove bullet and sent it in to have a custom mould made.

That bullet at 16 to 1 alloy went near 9 feet into a bedded 1800 lb Eland bull, my PH said NO other expanding bullet from any sporting arm would have penetrated that far, and penetrated straight I might add.

So I have moved a mountain of negative BS along the way with some help from a few others to have two really good 50-90's, one for hunting, and one for target [gong] shooting, I'm hooked on the Big 50-90 for life, it's a hell of a cartridge.

You need one too ; ]

Action Products Kick-Killer. They come in different sizes, my military butt needed an x-small. Not too pretty but it helps.