Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Ball powder for .223 and 30-30?

I'll probably end up with three or four before it's all said and done. Hopefully not five!

I like the idea of W748 because of it's accuracy and versatility. But after some comments here, and some research, see that it won't be appropriate in the long, hot summers here.
Of course I don't really like to get out and shoot a bunch when the temps are high. And certainly don't like processing any game animal in the heat. So 748 is still in play.

Hodgdon lists CFE223 for 30-30, too. That's would I would use.

CFE223 for the win.

I been calculating this out. And I figure I'll eventually need about nine pounds of powder, roughly, to use up all the 2000 primers I'll have to buy. Maybe a little less if I load some Trail Boss or other light loads.
So maybe I'll try both W748 and CFE223.

CFE223 is outstanding in .223 and .308. I plan to work up a load with it in my .30-30 soon.

I'll second the nomination of CFE-223 as excellent in both. It's all I shoot in .223 with 50-60 grain bullets and initial experiments with it in .30-30 shows great promise. (But I've only worked with it in .30-30 in a Savage 99G with jacketed bullets. Other .30-30 work at Chez Gnoahhh is with other guns, powders and cast bullets.)

CFE 223 closing fast. This is probably the best choice for me to start out with here in Texas with CFE 223's greater temperature stability.

The .223 hammer loader will be here today. Now just need to get some powder, bullets, primers, and an electronic scale.

Thinkin fifty of the 53 or 55 TSX should get me on my way to paying for a good part of my investment, since boxed ammo for these aint cheap.
Then a hundred Hornady 55 grain Interlocks look pretty reasonable for an all around load. About $15 for 100.
And then a hundred of either the 63 Sierra SMP or 64 Power Point have been rumored to have reasonable accuracy in a 12 twist barrel.

Either CCI 400 or Tula is what they have at academy in the 100 packs. So I guess I'll give the CCI a try.
They also have the CFE 223 in stock. So I'll pick that up.

Undecided on which electronic scale so far.

30-30 is on the back burner for the moment, as I still have something north of 200 rounds with the nine boxes that came with my last rifle and three or four that I had left over.
Although I wouldn't mind loading some 110's or 125's for plinking.
Might start thinkin about loading for .243 ahead of the 30-30. Would like to try some 105hpbt's for long range target practice maybe.

Any of those bullets you mentioned, with the exception of the Hornady 55's may or may not stabilize perfectly in that slow-ish twist. Probably might, but I would ease into those heavies with a sampling before jumping in with both feet just to be sure.

53-55 TSX's are wonderful bullets but are fairly longer than the cup-n-core Hornady 55's, and it's length not weight that matters (as in so many things in life!).

Yes, I'm aware. But I appeciate the heads up. I am a little skeptical of what will and won't be accurate. I've had erratic groups trying to shoot 100 grain pointed soft points in a slow twist 243.

Barnes lists the 55 grain TSX having a 12 twist minimum. But I'm leaning towards the 53 grain.

I'm more concerned with the Sierra 63 and Winchester 64 even though their semi-points make them short for weight bullets. But seems like from all I've read, everyone with a 12 twist .223 has had success shooting them.
I had thought about the 60 grain Hornady, Fusion, and Partition. But I'm even more concerned with those not stabilizing perfectly.

Regardless, if I can't shoot the bullets I want out of this one, I'm sure I'll move on to an 8 or 9 twist eventually.

Ha! I got a chuckle from that. Don't know where you read anything positive about CFE223 and temp stability, but it's cause to doubt that source. It's one of the most temp sensitive choices you could make, in my experience. TAC is a similar burn rate but much more stable, for example.

Trying to stick with one powder for multiple cartridges is a common new reloader mistake. You've already acknowledged you'll need more than one pound of powder to use all your primers anyway; you might as well choose one ideal powder for 223 and one for 30/30, without them needing to be the same. Burleyboy's suggestion above is good.

I think you might be a bit optimistic in 223 bullet weights as well, but some of these other guys spend more time with 1:12 twists. From the last one I had in that twist rate, I had much better results in the 50-55gr range or lighter.

Thanks for the advice on powders. It looks like I may look at several more powders before I decide what I want to start with. I have a lot to learn.
90+ temps can be expected here over a six month period, so a temp stable powder has become something I believe I'd like to use.

As far as the Sierra 63 SMP, they say it was designed with older slow twist rifles in mind and it has a short length for it's weight.
https://www.sierrabullets.com/product/22-caliber-63-gr-smp/
I have read many here say they have had success on medium game. But Sierra doesn't specify it for this use.
The 64 grain Power Point is used in the ammo labeled for deer and hogs, so maybe it's a little tougher.

Here's a bullet length list I found. And length is often correlated with ability to stabilize with a certain twist rate.
https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml

The Speer 70 grain Semi-Spitzer shows a length of 0.808".
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010619848
This bullet has a similar design to the lighter 63 SMP and the 64 Power Point. The Sierra is 0.755.

53 grain TSX, 0.792.

Hornady 60 grain Spire Point, 0.750. 55 grain is 0.715.

Nosler 60 grain Partition Spitzer, 0.790.

Nosler 64 grain Partition Protected Point. 0.800.

And the Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tip is 0.810 inches. Longer than any of the heavier bullets above. So I'm somewhat optimistic.

Edit:

Also found this calculator for stability on JBM. Says between 1.3 and 2.0 is the goal.
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

60 grain Hornady SP at 3100 fps in a 12 twist is in the green at 1.412.

63SMP at 3000 fps is green at 1.439

The 53 grain TSX at 3300 fps was below optimum at 1.091

70 grain Speer semi-point at 2750 was just below the green with a 1.280 score. So this would probably be ok at short range.

Yeah, if you are concerned about temp stability you should look at TAC, as Yondering said. It is a spherical also.

As to the 63 Sierra, ask Ingwe for a testimonial.

Give BLC2 a try.

Old school powder but works in MANY cartridges....from .222 to .30-06 and up to the .35 Whelen.

You might be surprised how well it does in both .223 and the .30-30.

Best

Heavy

If looking for temp stability, H322 and Benchmark are both part of the Hodgdon's extreme line. Technically neither is a ball powers, but they are very fine and meter like ball powders.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Starting to look at small grain extruded as an option. Hodgdon Extreme powders in particular for their temp stability.
Also Tac. My local range is a Ramshot dealer. I had thought Tac was only for extra heavy bullets. But looking at the burn rate charts, it is faster than Varget, BL-C(2), W748, CFE-223, and Leverevolution...and close to Benchmark, H335, 2230, and H4895. Also, Sierra lists it as the top hunting load for the 63 SMP.
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf

748 is one of those old school powders, that is still on the market, because it works and works well, in a wide variety of applications.

Thanks for another vote for 748.

What I have learned since starting this thread is there are a lot more powders that work well in the .223 and 30-30 than I had known about. W748 seems to be very popular. And it appears to have lower pressure full loads than many others. But according to Hodgdon load data, BL-C(2) looks to have a little more velocity in the bullet the bullet weights I'm interested in. W748 must have excellent accuracy though, with all those who favor it.

I may just start out with what is easily accessible. I know they had BL-C(2) and CFE-223 at the local Academy. And I can't remember, either H322 or H335. And possibly W748 and Benchmark.
Probably have to order the bullets I want.

Research Ramshot X-Terminator. I think it will check all the boxes for you. I just started playing with this powder in my 30/30. Last week I shot it out to 50 yards with a peep sight in the back and a blade up front and it shot just under 1" for 4 shots. I'm taking it out to 100 yards within a week to confirm my 100-yard trajectory, then I'll probably chase javelina with it a few days after that.

I remember those days, I also started with a Lee WhackaMole for a .30-30.

I have to use this a lot, now.